Vue Hybrid *** WARNING ***

In article >, hypercube[11x3]
@hotmail.com says...
> They usually cost 20% more and do not make this extra cost back up in fuel
> savings. Add to that more parts and it not being as easy to service by the
> average Joe, and you perhaps will get it. Also, if you did your homework,
> hybrids today aren't true hybrids. They are more like "electric assist"
> where the motors assist the engine, or allow the car to cruise, or brake.

The title of the thread should have been
Hybrids *** WARNING *** Complete waste of ca$h

Stick with ye ol' petrol and plant a tree. Both the earth and ones self
will come out further ahead...

On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 10:21:20 -0500, "HyperCube33 \(Life2Death\)"
> wrote:

>They usually cost 20% more and do not make this extra cost back up in fuel
>savings. Add to that more parts and it not being as easy to service by the
>average Joe, and you perhaps will get it.


Consumer Reports projects that the Civic Hybrid and Prius will
actually do a little better than break even over the life of the car.
That may or may not work out in any given case but it is not clearly a
losing proposition. The bigger question is; why does it have to pay
for itself? Nobody demands that the GPS system or the premium radio
pay for themselves. If that seems too abstract, how about the engine
upgrades that are available on many cars. You pay more money for an
engine that gets worse fuel economy on premium gas. Isn't that a huge
waste? If someone wants to spend money to get better fuel economy
(even if it never breaks even on cost) why does that make it "a
waste?" I know a number of people drive hybrids and not one of them
bought it to save money.

> Also, if you did your homework,
>hybrids today aren't true hybrids. They are more like "electric assist"
>where the motors assist the engine, or allow the car to cruise, or brake.

So how is that not a hybrid? One could just as easily argue that it
is not a "true hybrid" if the engine never directly drives the wheels.

FYI, I do know a fair amount about the Honda and Toyota hybrids. Just
because they don't meet your narrow definition of 'hybrid' doesn't
invalidate what they are.



>"satyr" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 15:13:33 -0500, "HyperCube33 \(Life2Death\)"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>Not to mention if you know anything about hybrids, they are a waste. When
>>>the hell will we see compact [perhaps bio]diesel engines powering a
>>>generator and then an electric only drive system? Grr.
>>
>> Isn't that a hybrid? Besides, even if there is a greater benefit to
>> the system you describe (which isn't certain), how does that make
>> current hybrids "a waste?"
>>
>>>But no spare tire? Huh. Cant they even pull a blazer and stick a full size
>>>on the back as an option?
>>>"Spam away" > wrote in message
...
>>>>I looked at the Vue Hybrid at a recent auto show.
>>>> Very nice, but for one very significant design aspect that keeps me from
>>>> buying it.
>>>> The previous Vue had a compact spare which didn't do the job for me due
>>>> to winter driving long distances on remote roads. So I judged this Vue
>>>> only reliable for urban driving.
>>>>
>>>> The current Vue Hybrid takes this spare problem to it's bitter end by
>>>> eliminating the spare. So I judge this Vue completely unusable.
>>
>

In article >,
says...
> Consumer Reports projects that the Civic Hybrid and Prius will
> actually do a little better than break even over the life of the car.

OOOOooo... I'm impressed. Did they bother to factor in the resale value
after 5 years when it needs a new batteries that equal the value of the
car? Did they also factor in the increased labor rate shops charge?
Doubt it.

> That may or may not work out in any given case but it is not clearly a
> losing proposition. The bigger question is; why does it have to pay
> for itself? Nobody demands that the GPS system or the premium radio
> pay for themselves.

The GPS system can be a money saver and maker. For example, it would
assist me in finding garage sales and getting to auctions or other
places on time without getting me lost and expending more fuel. If it
gets me to garage sales sooner for the deals, that allows me to make a
profit on eBay. Thats just some of what a GPS could do for me. The radio
entertains people so they can keep their sanity. A lump of batteries do
not... Maybe if they had some nipple clamps wired up to the batteries
some may find the hypebrid batteries entertaining then...

> If that seems too abstract, how about the engine
> upgrades that are available on many cars. You pay more money for an
> engine that gets worse fuel economy on premium gas. Isn't that a huge
> waste?

Considering I can buy a new engine and transmission (which I wont need)
for the cost of new hypebrid batteries aren't those batteries "a huge
waste"?

> If someone wants to spend money to get better fuel economy
> (even if it never breaks even on cost) why does that make it "a
> waste?"

You answered your own question. All that effort and hassle for no gain
equals WASTE.

> I know a number of people drive hybrids and not one of them
> bought it to save money.

Everyone that has talked with me about getting a hypebrid thought they
would somehow save money. I guess you're rare because everyone you know
done it for the fuzzy feeling that they are somehow helping the
environment.

On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 12:25:41 -0400, BläBlä
. s!rcre4p.c0m> wrote:

>In article >,
says...
>> Consumer Reports projects that the Civic Hybrid and Prius will
>> actually do a little better than break even over the life of the car.
>
>OOOOooo... I'm impressed. Did they bother to factor in the resale value
>after 5 years when it needs a new batteries that equal the value of the
>car? Did they also factor in the increased labor rate shops charge?
>Doubt it.

You would be wrong then. Did you know that the batteries are
warranted for 80,000 miles. Based on manufacturer experience they
expect the battery pack to last 150,000 to 180,000 miles.

One correction, I said they expect the cars to break even over their
life. In fact, the projection is for these two cars to break even
after only five years of ownership so the batteries were not a factor
and depreciation was only slightly higher for the hybrids.

>> That may or may not work out in any given case but it is not clearly a
>> losing proposition. The bigger question is; why does it have to pay
>> for itself? Nobody demands that the GPS system or the premium radio
>> pay for themselves.
>
>The GPS system can be a money saver and maker. For example, it would
>assist me in finding garage sales and getting to auctions or other
>places on time without getting me lost and expending more fuel.

So would a map. The GPS units cost hundreds or thousands of dollars.
You must do a lot of driving in circles for it to save that much gas.
>If it
>gets me to garage sales sooner for the deals, that allows me to make a
>profit on eBay. Thats just some of what a GPS could do for me. The radio
>entertains people so they can keep their sanity. A lump of batteries do
>not... Maybe if they had some nipple clamps wired up to the batteries
>some may find the hypebrid batteries entertaining then...

Well, we all have different preferences in entertainment and you are
welcome to yours. Some people are entertained by trying to squeeze
the most miles out of a gallon of gas and posting it on the Internet.

>> If that seems too abstract, how about the engine
>> upgrades that are available on many cars. You pay more money for an
>> engine that gets worse fuel economy on premium gas. Isn't that a huge
>> waste?
>
>Considering I can buy a new engine and transmission (which I wont need)
>for the cost of new hypebrid batteries aren't those batteries "a huge
>waste"?

Not if they save more than their cost in gasoline. You (and a lot of
others with no real knowledge or information) are underestimating the
life of the batteries. The first hybrids are now over six years old
and the batteries are holding up very well.

>
>> If someone wants to spend money to get better fuel economy
>> (even if it never breaks even on cost) why does that make it "a
>> waste?"
>
>You answered your own question. All that effort and hassle for no gain
>equals WASTE.

No effort or hassle, just more money. Just like it costs more money
to buy the optional V6 instead of the standard 4. Isn't that a waste?
It will never pay for itself.

>> I know a number of people drive hybrids and not one of them
>> bought it to save money.
>
> Everyone that has talked with me about getting a hypebrid thought they
>would somehow save money. I guess you're rare because everyone you know
>done it for the fuzzy feeling that they are somehow helping the
>environment.

They are also very intelligent, well educated and have a lot of
disposable income. One other difference; they didn't talk with me
about getting a hybrid, they just went out and bought one.

"SnoMan" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 07:07:36 -0400, "marx404" > wrote:
>
>>I should have also added a question to Spam Away? Um, if you are so
>>shocked
>>that the Hybrid VUE doesn't have a spare, then why aren't you also shocked
>>about the SKY not having a spare? Same concept, and no, neither was the
>>VUE
>>designed for remote camping trips in the frozen tundra. The VUE is an
>>Urban
>>vehicle, which again explains the 7/8 spare in regular VUEs for space and
>>weight savings. Don't worry, replacing the spare with a patch kit isn't a
>>new trend that will take over all Saturn models, lol.
>
>
> Still a very poor design concept. Ganted on have only used a compact
> spare twice in over 20 years but it is still nice to have it just in
> case for piece of mind. I would rather have it and not need it than
> need it and not have it. I do agree though that a fullsized spare is
> not a must have.
> -----------------
> TheSnoMan.com

Is there something about the Hybrid VUE that makes it impractical to buy
and keep one's own spare, if one wants one badly enough?

On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 13:22:09 -0400, "Steve"
m> wrote:

> Is there something about the Hybrid VUE that makes it impractical to buy
>and keep one's own spare, if one wants one badly enough?

Yes it is likely that the spare tire storage area is being used by
batteries.
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com

On Apr 30, 1:22 pm, "Steve"
m> wrote:
> Is there something about the Hybrid VUE that makes it impractical to buy
> and keep one's own spare, if one wants one badly enough?

Nope, there's enough room in the area where the spare used to be
stored for a compact spare, if you're that worried about it. That
space is currently occupied by the inflator and flat sealer. Since you
won't need them, pull 'em out and drop in a spare.

Personally, it's not a big deal. If I get a flat, I'll call AAA.

I predict that 5 years from now, everybody will be doing this for
weight savings.

I love my Green Line. Mileage much better than my 2003 V6, and getting
better as it breaks in and the weather gets warmer.
-Rick

"SnoMan" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 13:22:09 -0400, "Steve"
> m> wrote:
>
>> Is there something about the Hybrid VUE that makes it impractical to
>> buy
>>and keep one's own spare, if one wants one badly enough?
>
> Yes it is likely that the spare tire storage area is being used by
> batteries.
> -----------------
> TheSnoMan.com

Yes, I surmised that, but is there NO other place in the Hybrid VUE that
one could store a spare tire?

On Tue, 1 May 2007 13:16:01 -0400, "Steve"
m> wrote:

>Yes, I surmised that, but is there NO other place in the Hybrid VUE that
>one could store a spare tire?
>


There is only so much space in that car and to make room for a spare,
you need to take room from somewhere else. Many years ago I owned a
few Subarus and they had a good idea. They stored a compact spare
above engine under hood. I saw no adverse effect for this after 5
years with one vehicle.
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com

<snip>

Our family has both a Saturn and we just purchased a Honda Civic Hybrid for
my wife. We have no expectation of having the gas savings pay for the
extra cost, which was minimal. The premium for the hybrid is about $2000,
We will get back approx $1500 in tax credits (not tax deductions, tax
credits),

I was interested in the technology aspect of the car, and I feel that it is
important to send a message to the manufactures that people will buy these
products and that continued R&D will pay off.

-David