Serious Bentley Manual Problems

Walter Harley wrote:
> "Joseph Meehan" > wrote in message
> ...
>> The more I think about this the more it sounds like you bought this
>> from a bootlegger and you knew full well that it was an iffy product and
>> bought it anyway. Now you found it you were ripped off by the seller and
>> you are mad but you know full well the seller is just going to laugh in
>> your face now that he has your moeny.
>
> Kent clearly stated that was not the case. Are you just trolling?

I am sorry for using the term bootlegger. That was wrong.


--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

T wrote:
> Kent wrote:
> <snip>
>> Well, after a single unsuccessful fix attempt by software support, I was
>> told that the only possible way that the Version 1 CD "might" run on my
>> computer was by installing and maintaining a "dummy" version of an
>> obsolete
>> Netscape browser.
>
>
>
> Folks, we are talking IE and Netscape as if they are interchangeable.
>
> I would want to know exactly what is installed with the old version of
> Netscape that the old version of CD relies on to be there.
>
> It might be as simple as installing just that component or file and
> foregoing the rest of the drama.
>
> Bad programming on the CD guys fault, but the best solution would be for
> Bentley to produce a patch for owners of new OSs and old CDs.
>
>
> TBerk

I can't answer your question, but remember that Microsoft was charged
with intentionally making changes that caused Netscape to fail. Anyone know
how that turned out?

--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

Peace Mr. Meehan. I don't care what the newspapers say, I'm not the guy who
stole your lollipop!

Well, it looks like somebody went back to an earlier post and discovered
that I purchased the subject CD from Mark at Adirondack. Let me make
something perfectly clear: I don't hold Adirondack responsible for this!
I've purchased many a part from Mark and I couldn't be more impressed with
the way he operates his business. Adirondack is top-notch operation and no
one should hesitate for one moment to do business with them. I of course
notified Mark of my problem and he tells me that he is working the issue
with Bentley.

There was no way that Mark could have known that this was an obsolete CD.
When Bentley sends these CDs out into the supply chain (yes, believe it or
not, Bentley Publishers is the originator of this product and thus
ultimately responsible for its content), they package them in ultra-paranoid
super deluxe tamper-resistant cardboard boxes. If you open the box, you buy
it. This is what the outer cardboard packaging says:

Bentley Publishers - EVA2
VW GTI, Golf, Jetta, Service Manual: 1985-1992 Electronic Edition
ISBN 0-8376-0759-0
W42 CD-ROM VW A2 92.03

Okay, pop quiz folks. Where in this information can the distributor or
consumer determine that this is an obsolete product that will no longer work
on current operating systems? Is that Mr. Meehan with his hand up in the
back row? Great answer! YOU CAN'T!

Now, since I ponied up the big bucks for this fine product, I was the guy
that got to open the outer cardboard wrapping. No turning back now. Inside
was the familiar shrink-wrapped jewel case with the obligatory product
information. Still no indication that it wouldn't run on my system, so I
broke the plastic seal and loaded it up on my computer. Well, you all know
by now what happened next...

I believe someone asked, "how could Bentley be expected to notify all the
first-, second-, and third-party distributors out there that they may be
offering a product as new that no longer runs on current computers?" The
answer is they don't have to. The consumers that eventually purchase the
product and find out it doesn't work will come to them. Like I did. And what
should Bentley do? They should let the customer keep the friggin useless 10
cent obsolete CD (after verifying the serial number), and send them an
equivalent replacement product. Or offer a downloadable patch. Or agree to
reimburse the dealer who originally sold it so he doesn't have to take it in
the shorts for refunding the customer's money. Or refund the customer's
purchase price directly.

But instead, they want me to pay postage to send the obsolete CD that I just
paid $82 back to them with a letter "requesting" replacement, and then wait
patiently and quietly until a micro-fiche based Version 2 CD WITHOUT WIRING
DIAGRAMS is sent back to me at their leisure. Or even better, I can opt for
the print version of manual and eat the CD premium that I already paid.

No way folks. I don't want Mark at Adirondack to have to eat his cost for
this "open" CD if he refunds my money. He's already out the time it's taking
him to deal with the issue. And I'm out both time and money. Bentley screwed
up on this one when they originally distributed this product and they need
to settle up. Plus a little extra for my trouble. I'm holding out for the
Version 2 CD (without wiring diagrams) plus the latest print version (so I
have access to the wiring diagrams). As far as I'm concerned, this is the
only equitable exchange.

--
Kent
1987 VW GTI 8V, original owner, 220,000+ miles

"Joseph Meehan" > wrote in message
...
> Kent wrote:
> > I disagree. The CD case clearly says that the CD will run on Windows
> > 95/98/NT and Netscape Navigator or Internet Explorer 4 or higher.
Bentley
> > may consider this an obsolete "out of circulation" version, but they are
> > still out there in the supply chain being sold to unwitting consumers
> > (like
> > me) as new. There is nothing on the packaging to indicate that the CD is
> > out-of-date. In fact, I had to give Bentley software support a number
off
> > the CD itself before they could tell me that I had the obsolete version.
> > Why
> > should my distributor be held responsible when the case represents that
it
> > will run on systems that Bentley now concedes that it won't? Bentley is
> > ultimately responsible for providing updates, equitable exchanges, or
full
> > refunds if their product does not function as advertised. This is
> > especially
> > true when you consider the outrageous pricing for the CD version.
Instead
> > they are beating around the bush, offering non-equitable exchanges, and
> > hoping it will all go away. I won't go away.
>
> The more I think about this the more it sounds like you bought this
from
> a bootlegger and you knew full well that it was an iffy product and bought
> it anyway. Now you found it you were ripped off by the seller and you are
> mad but you know full well the seller is just going to laugh in your face
> now that he has your moeny.
>
> >
> >
> > "Joseph Meehan" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> Kent wrote:
> >> ..
> >>>
> >>> I received my CD for the Bentley GTI, Golf, Jetta 1985-1992 service
> >>> manual
> >>> late last week. I followed all the instructions, installed it on my
> >>> computer, and...big surprise...it didn't work. I screwed around with
it
> >>> for
> >>> a few hours, and then broke down and emailed Bentley software support.
> >>
> >> " I was
> >>> told that I had purchased "Version 1" of the CD, and I must have
> >>> purchased
> >>> it from a third-party vendor as it was not longer supported by Bentley
> >>> and
> >>> was "removed from circulation".
> >>
> >> ...
> >>
> >>> I got the feeling that the Version 2 CD
> >>> was a desperate attempt to deal with a serious software compatibility
> >>> problem.
> >>
> >> It sounds like someone sold you an old version that will not run on
> >> current operating systems and/or current versions of IE. That is not
the
> >> fault of Bentley. Bentley can't control Microsoft or predict what they
> >> may
> >> do.
> >>
> >> Your grip should be with whoever you bought the disk from because
> >> they
> >> sold you an out of date product.
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Joseph E. Meehan
> >>
> >> 26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math
>
> --
> Joseph E. Meehan
>
> 26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math
>
>
>

Kent wrote:
.....
>
> But instead, they want me to pay postage to send the obsolete CD that I
> just
> paid $82 back to them with a letter "requesting" replacement, and then
> wait
> patiently and quietly until a micro-fiche based Version 2 CD WITHOUT
> WIRING
> DIAGRAMS is sent back to me at their leisure. Or even better, I can opt
> for
> the print version of manual and eat the CD premium that I already paid.
>

Sorry if I offended you in any way. I guess I should have taken into
consideration that this is a car newsgroup not a computer newsgroup. I did
come off sounding too hard on you.

That said, I have the CD version for my 2002 NB Diesel. The print
version was not available when I bought it. It does work for me (at least
on my older computer) but I would be happy to send it back for a good print
version. It's OK but I like the print version better, especially for the
wiring diagrams.

--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

"Kent" > wrote in message
...
> Peace Mr. Meehan. I don't care what the newspapers say, I'm not the guy
who
> stole your lollipop!
>
> Well, it looks like somebody went back to an earlier post and discovered
> that I purchased the subject CD from Mark at Adirondack. Let me make
> something perfectly clear: I don't hold Adirondack responsible for this!
> I've purchased many a part from Mark and I couldn't be more impressed with
> the way he operates his business. Adirondack is top-notch operation and no
> one should hesitate for one moment to do business with them. I of course
> notified Mark of my problem and he tells me that he is working the issue
> with Bentley.
>
> There was no way that Mark could have known that this was an obsolete CD.
> When Bentley sends these CDs out into the supply chain (yes, believe it or
> not, Bentley Publishers is the originator of this product and thus
> ultimately responsible for its content), they package them in
ultra-paranoid
> super deluxe tamper-resistant cardboard boxes. If you open the box, you
buy
> it. This is what the outer cardboard packaging says:
>
> Bentley Publishers - EVA2
> VW GTI, Golf, Jetta, Service Manual: 1985-1992 Electronic Edition
> ISBN 0-8376-0759-0
> W42 CD-ROM VW A2 92.03
>
> Okay, pop quiz folks. Where in this information can the distributor or
> consumer determine that this is an obsolete product that will no longer
work
> on current operating systems? Is that Mr. Meehan with his hand up in the
> back row? Great answer! YOU CAN'T!
>
> Now, since I ponied up the big bucks for this fine product, I was the guy
> that got to open the outer cardboard wrapping. No turning back now. Inside
> was the familiar shrink-wrapped jewel case with the obligatory product
> information. Still no indication that it wouldn't run on my system, so I
> broke the plastic seal and loaded it up on my computer. Well, you all know
> by now what happened next...
>
> I believe someone asked, "how could Bentley be expected to notify all the
> first-, second-, and third-party distributors out there that they may be
> offering a product as new that no longer runs on current computers?" The
> answer is they don't have to. The consumers that eventually purchase the
> product and find out it doesn't work will come to them. Like I did. And
what
> should Bentley do? They should let the customer keep the friggin useless
10
> cent obsolete CD (after verifying the serial number), and send them an
> equivalent replacement product. Or offer a downloadable patch. Or agree to
> reimburse the dealer who originally sold it so he doesn't have to take it
in
> the shorts for refunding the customer's money. Or refund the customer's
> purchase price directly.
>
> But instead, they want me to pay postage to send the obsolete CD that I
just
> paid $82 back to them with a letter "requesting" replacement, and then
wait
> patiently and quietly until a micro-fiche based Version 2 CD WITHOUT
WIRING
> DIAGRAMS is sent back to me at their leisure. Or even better, I can opt
for
> the print version of manual and eat the CD premium that I already paid.
>
> No way folks. I don't want Mark at Adirondack to have to eat his cost for
> this "open" CD if he refunds my money. He's already out the time it's
taking
> him to deal with the issue.

You bought it from Adirondack, it goes back to the retailer. End of story.
Please get that through your thick head.


>

Was this item delivered by Bentley to Mark three months ago, or eight years
ago? If it is old stock, Mark must bear some of the blame, for not managing
his inventory. If Bentley delivered this product after the new operating
systems were out, they are responsible. If they delivered this product
before XP was even a glimmer in Bill Gate's eye, the issue isn't nearly as
clear as you would like it to be.

DS

I'm pretty thick, but I don't see what it has to do with this issue. Mark
was not responsible. I was not responsible. Bentley was clearly responsible,
and they have wisely decided to send me the Version 2 CD and the print
manual free of charge. But thanks anyway for the words of encouragement.
--
Kent
1987 VW GTI 8V, original owner, 220,000+ miles

"Biz" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Kent" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Peace Mr. Meehan. I don't care what the newspapers say, I'm not the guy
> who
> > stole your lollipop!
> >
> > Well, it looks like somebody went back to an earlier post and discovered
> > that I purchased the subject CD from Mark at Adirondack. Let me make
> > something perfectly clear: I don't hold Adirondack responsible for this!
> > I've purchased many a part from Mark and I couldn't be more impressed
with
> > the way he operates his business. Adirondack is top-notch operation and
no
> > one should hesitate for one moment to do business with them. I of course
> > notified Mark of my problem and he tells me that he is working the issue
> > with Bentley.
> >
> > There was no way that Mark could have known that this was an obsolete
CD.
> > When Bentley sends these CDs out into the supply chain (yes, believe it
or
> > not, Bentley Publishers is the originator of this product and thus
> > ultimately responsible for its content), they package them in
> ultra-paranoid
> > super deluxe tamper-resistant cardboard boxes. If you open the box, you
> buy
> > it. This is what the outer cardboard packaging says:
> >
> > Bentley Publishers - EVA2
> > VW GTI, Golf, Jetta, Service Manual: 1985-1992 Electronic Edition
> > ISBN 0-8376-0759-0
> > W42 CD-ROM VW A2 92.03
> >
> > Okay, pop quiz folks. Where in this information can the distributor or
> > consumer determine that this is an obsolete product that will no longer
> work
> > on current operating systems? Is that Mr. Meehan with his hand up in the
> > back row? Great answer! YOU CAN'T!
> >
> > Now, since I ponied up the big bucks for this fine product, I was the
guy
> > that got to open the outer cardboard wrapping. No turning back now.
Inside
> > was the familiar shrink-wrapped jewel case with the obligatory product
> > information. Still no indication that it wouldn't run on my system, so I
> > broke the plastic seal and loaded it up on my computer. Well, you all
know
> > by now what happened next...
> >
> > I believe someone asked, "how could Bentley be expected to notify all
the
> > first-, second-, and third-party distributors out there that they may be
> > offering a product as new that no longer runs on current computers?" The
> > answer is they don't have to. The consumers that eventually purchase the
> > product and find out it doesn't work will come to them. Like I did. And
> what
> > should Bentley do? They should let the customer keep the friggin useless
> 10
> > cent obsolete CD (after verifying the serial number), and send them an
> > equivalent replacement product. Or offer a downloadable patch. Or agree
to
> > reimburse the dealer who originally sold it so he doesn't have to take
it
> in
> > the shorts for refunding the customer's money. Or refund the customer's
> > purchase price directly.
> >
> > But instead, they want me to pay postage to send the obsolete CD that I
> just
> > paid $82 back to them with a letter "requesting" replacement, and then
> wait
> > patiently and quietly until a micro-fiche based Version 2 CD WITHOUT
> WIRING
> > DIAGRAMS is sent back to me at their leisure. Or even better, I can opt
> for
> > the print version of manual and eat the CD premium that I already paid.
> >
> > No way folks. I don't want Mark at Adirondack to have to eat his cost
for
> > this "open" CD if he refunds my money. He's already out the time it's
> taking
> > him to deal with the issue.
>
> You bought it from Adirondack, it goes back to the retailer. End of
story.
> Please get that through your thick head.
>
>
> >
>
>

Kent wrote:
> I'm pretty thick, but I don't see what it has to do with this issue. Mark
> was not responsible. I was not responsible. Bentley was clearly
> responsible,
> and they have wisely decided to send me the Version 2 CD and the print
> manual free of charge. But thanks anyway for the words of encouragement.
>

So how was Bentley for not knowing what Bill Gates was going to do after
they (Bentley) sold their product? Remember they sold it not to you but to
others. No where on the package did it say it would be compatible with all
future versions of Windows and IE. You may have been mislead to thinking
that due to the wording on the package, but don't you think it would be a
little unreasonable for anyone to assure that a product would work with
versions of other programs not yet written by other unrelated manufacturers?


> "Biz" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Kent" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Peace Mr. Meehan. I don't care what the newspapers say, I'm not the guy
>>> who stole your lollipop!
>>>
>>> Well, it looks like somebody went back to an earlier post and discovered
>>> that I purchased the subject CD from Mark at Adirondack. Let me make
>>> something perfectly clear: I don't hold Adirondack responsible for this!
>>> I've purchased many a part from Mark and I couldn't be more impressed
>>> with
>>> the way he operates his business. Adirondack is top-notch operation and
>>> no
>>> one should hesitate for one moment to do business with them. I of course
>>> notified Mark of my problem and he tells me that he is working the issue
>>> with Bentley.
>>>
>>> There was no way that Mark could have known that this was an obsolete
>>> CD.
>>> When Bentley sends these CDs out into the supply chain (yes, believe it
>>> or
>>> not, Bentley Publishers is the originator of this product and thus
>>> ultimately responsible for its content), they package them in
>>> ultra-paranoid super deluxe tamper-resistant cardboard boxes. If you
>>> open
>>> the box, you buy it. This is what the outer cardboard packaging says:
>>>
>>> Bentley Publishers - EVA2
>>> VW GTI, Golf, Jetta, Service Manual: 1985-1992 Electronic Edition
>>> ISBN 0-8376-0759-0
>>> W42 CD-ROM VW A2 92.03
>>>
>>> Okay, pop quiz folks. Where in this information can the distributor or
>>> consumer determine that this is an obsolete product that will no longer
>>> work on current operating systems? Is that Mr. Meehan with his hand up
>>> in
>>> the back row? Great answer! YOU CAN'T!
>>>
>>> Now, since I ponied up the big bucks for this fine product, I was the
>>> guy
>>> that got to open the outer cardboard wrapping. No turning back now.
>>> Inside
>>> was the familiar shrink-wrapped jewel case with the obligatory product
>>> information. Still no indication that it wouldn't run on my system, so I
>>> broke the plastic seal and loaded it up on my computer. Well, you all
>>> know
>>> by now what happened next...
>>>
>>> I believe someone asked, "how could Bentley be expected to notify all
>>> the
>>> first-, second-, and third-party distributors out there that they may be
>>> offering a product as new that no longer runs on current computers?" The
>>> answer is they don't have to. The consumers that eventually purchase the
>>> product and find out it doesn't work will come to them. Like I did. And
>>> what should Bentley do? They should let the customer keep the friggin
>>> useless 10 cent obsolete CD (after verifying the serial number), and
>>> send
>>> them an equivalent replacement product. Or offer a downloadable patch.
>>> Or
>>> agree to reimburse the dealer who originally sold it so he doesn't have
>>> to take it in the shorts for refunding the customer's money. Or refund
>>> the customer's purchase price directly.
>>>
>>> But instead, they want me to pay postage to send the obsolete CD that I
>>> just paid $82 back to them with a letter "requesting" replacement, and
>>> then wait patiently and quietly until a micro-fiche based Version 2 CD
>>> WITHOUT WIRING DIAGRAMS is sent back to me at their leisure. Or even
>>> better, I can opt for the print version of manual and eat the CD premium
>>> that I already paid.
>>>
>>> No way folks. I don't want Mark at Adirondack to have to eat his cost
>>> for
>>> this "open" CD if he refunds my money. He's already out the time it's
>>> taking him to deal with the issue.
>>
>> You bought it from Adirondack, it goes back to the retailer. End of
>> story.
>> Please get that through your thick head.

--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

"Joseph Meehan" > wrote in message
...
> Kent wrote:
> > I'm pretty thick, but I don't see what it has to do with this issue. Mark
> > was not responsible. I was not responsible. Bentley was clearly
> > responsible,
> > and they have wisely decided to send me the Version 2 CD and the print
> > manual free of charge. But thanks anyway for the words of encouragement.
> >
>
> So how was Bentley for not knowing what Bill Gates was going to do after
> they (Bentley) sold their product? Remember they sold it not to you but to
> others. No where on the package did it say it would be compatible with all
> future versions of Windows and IE. You may have been mislead to thinking
> that due to the wording on the package, but don't you think it would be a
> little unreasonable for anyone to assure that a product would work with
> versions of other programs not yet written by other unrelated manufacturers?
>
>

GM, Ford and others have been held legally accountable for damages sustained by
people injured in cars that met the standards of their time, but were later
found to be dangerous...many years after they were made and sold. I agree that
it seems almost unfair to hold someone accountable for something they could not
foresee...but it happens!

--
Tony Bad

02 Jetta Wagon
01 Eurovan MV
91 Jetta 1.6 Diesel
86 Jetta
79 Rabbit 1.5 Diesel (semi-retired for now)
Schwinn Continental 10 Speed
Radio Flyer Pedal Car (my daughter made me add this)

Tony Bad wrote:
> "Joseph Meehan" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Kent wrote:
>>> I'm pretty thick, but I don't see what it has to do with this issue.
>>> Mark
>>> was not responsible. I was not responsible. Bentley was clearly
>>> responsible,
>>> and they have wisely decided to send me the Version 2 CD and the print
>>> manual free of charge. But thanks anyway for the words of encouragement.
>>>
>>
>> So how was Bentley for not knowing what Bill Gates was going to do
>> after they (Bentley) sold their product? Remember they sold it not to
>> you
>> but to others. No where on the package did it say it would be compatible
>> with all future versions of Windows and IE. You may have been mislead to
>> thinking that due to the wording on the package, but don't you think it
>> would be a little unreasonable for anyone to assure that a product would
>> work with versions of other programs not yet written by other unrelated
>> manufacturers?
>>
>>
>
> GM, Ford and others have been held legally accountable for damages
> sustained by people injured in cars that met the standards of their time,
> but were later found to be dangerous...many years after they were made and
> sold. I agree that it seems almost unfair to hold someone accountable for
> something they could not foresee...but it happens!

I believe in those cases they were held accountable because while they
did meet then enforce codes, they produced a product that was unsafe in a
way they should have known and in fact tried to hide after experience proved
they had erred thereby keeping information from the public that they could
have used to protect themselves.



--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math