Does this seem right..?

Ten days ago I went to the Saturn dealership in Albany New York and
had the 60,000 mile service. This was an oil change, a transmission
flush and fill, lube all doors and what ever else they said came with
that service.

At the same time they said the motor mounts were bad and I had them
replaced on the 99 SL1. Please remember this car has never had a
problem outside of the tensioner and pulley last year. However they
checked the car over and they said all was great to go.

Now the next night after the service we notice a burning smell and see
transmission fluid on our garage floor. I call Saturn and they said it
was more than likely run off or spillage and not to be concerned. They
also said that they had to replace the Coolant Temperature Sensor and
that may also be part of the problem.

Now to the fun and games department. I went in yesterday and I showed
them the leak, they originally said it was simply a bolt that had to
be tightened. OK so I wait 30 minutes and the guy comes out and say's
that the leak is from the top of the transmission and that it may be a
cracked casing. ?? Now I said why did you not see that when it was
brought in 10 days ago since this car never had a leak in its life?
The guy said to properly diagnose the problem would take around 3
hours for $240 and then they could determine better what could be
wrong.

Well I waited over an hour and one half and the guy comes out and
say's we drained the fluid and it was pink/purple and that the casing
had a crack and it would now cost $1800.00+ again he said I could buy
a remanufactured transmission for $3400.00 or a used one for $2400.00
I then stated I wanted the used parts back and he said there was a
core charge from Saturn for the old transmission and that I could not
now get the old parts back to have it looked at by a mechanic around
the corner from my home. I called this mechanic and he said that I was
taken since if you never had a leak before the service it was totally
possible that Saturn caused the problem when they did the service. He
also said the pink tint would come from a coolant leak from the
radiator into the transmission, or the casing was cracked when they
replace the motor mounts (Lower) and he found it very suspicious.

To add insult to injury they loaned us a brand new Saturn ION and its
a nice looking and running car. We wanted to just trade the older car
in and they said they don't use Kelly's Blue Book or NADA but some
sort of Auction Book and at they best they would not proceed with the
repairs and that it was not worth anything to them, unless we paid for
the repair and then traded in the car towards the ION we are now
driving. I told this guy he was out of his mind. Since the major cost
was labor and not the parts themselves and that they could have placed
the older transmission back in and could have gotten at least $6,000
since the car is in excellent condition.

In any case the dealerships sales man was a real asshole and we
decided to just pay the repair bill and then buy a supplemental car
from Chrysler on a new jeep. He then counter back with a $300-$500 off
the price of the new car and then I said we also had a certificate for
$5,000 off your best deal and he said be careful of the expiration
date. It was for the month of December and I said I still have a few
days left. The guy was a total jerk.

In any way do you think the transmission could have been bad the way
they said it did, or could the dealership actually damaged the vehicle
when they serviced it?

Elector

In article >, elector@my-
deja.com says...
>
> Ten days ago I went to the Saturn dealership in Albany New York and
> had the 60,000 mile service. This was an oil change, a transmission
> flush and fill, lube all doors and what ever else they said came with
> that service.
>
> At the same time they said the motor mounts were bad and I had them
> replaced on the 99 SL1. Please remember this car has never had a
> problem outside of the tensioner and pulley last year. However they
> checked the car over and they said all was great to go.
>
> Now the next night after the service we notice a burning smell and see
> transmission fluid on our garage floor. I call Saturn and they said it
> was more than likely run off or spillage and not to be concerned. They
> also said that they had to replace the Coolant Temperature Sensor and
> that may also be part of the problem.
>
> Now to the fun and games department. I went in yesterday and I showed
> them the leak, they originally said it was simply a bolt that had to
> be tightened. OK so I wait 30 minutes and the guy comes out and say's
> that the leak is from the top of the transmission and that it may be a
> cracked casing. ?? Now I said why did you not see that when it was
> brought in 10 days ago since this car never had a leak in its life?
> The guy said to properly diagnose the problem would take around 3
> hours for $240 and then they could determine better what could be
> wrong.
>
> Well I waited over an hour and one half and the guy comes out and
> say's we drained the fluid and it was pink/purple and that the casing
> had a crack and it would now cost $1800.00+ again he said I could buy
> a remanufactured transmission for $3400.00 or a used one for $2400.00
> I then stated I wanted the used parts back and he said there was a
> core charge from Saturn for the old transmission and that I could not
> now get the old parts back to have it looked at by a mechanic around
> the corner from my home. I called this mechanic and he said that I was
> taken since if you never had a leak before the service it was totally
> possible that Saturn caused the problem when they did the service. He
> also said the pink tint would come from a coolant leak from the
> radiator into the transmission, or the casing was cracked when they
> replace the motor mounts (Lower) and he found it very suspicious.
>
> To add insult to injury they loaned us a brand new Saturn ION and its
> a nice looking and running car. We wanted to just trade the older car
> in and they said they don't use Kelly's Blue Book or NADA but some
> sort of Auction Book and at they best they would not proceed with the
> repairs and that it was not worth anything to them, unless we paid for
> the repair and then traded in the car towards the ION we are now
> driving. I told this guy he was out of his mind. Since the major cost
> was labor and not the parts themselves and that they could have placed
> the older transmission back in and could have gotten at least $6,000
> since the car is in excellent condition.
>
> In any case the dealerships sales man was a real asshole and we
> decided to just pay the repair bill and then buy a supplemental car
> from Chrysler on a new jeep. He then counter back with a $300-$500 off
> the price of the new car and then I said we also had a certificate for
> $5,000 off your best deal and he said be careful of the expiration
> date. It was for the month of December and I said I still have a few
> days left. The guy was a total jerk.
>
> In any way do you think the transmission could have been bad the way
> they said it did, or could the dealership actually damaged the vehicle
> when they serviced it?
>
> Elector

Sounds like they may have damaged it during the repair or it could of
been damaged when it had bad motor mounts and the new motor mounts could
of finished stressing it. Hard to say without seeing the damage which
they dont want you to see.

When it comes to transmissions you really have to shop around hard. A
guy I know with an Olds Aurora paid over 3000 bucks for a rebuild. I
told him, after I done some searching on the internet, I could of got
him a brand new one for 1000 bucks after a core exchange (1700 without
exchange). It was a 4T80E which is commonly married to the Northstar
engines. They had to go back into his transmission because they missed
the actual problem with the transmission. A piston in the valve body was
cracked. Thats something that would of been avoided with the new
transmission. Makes me wonder what they spent all that money on for a
REBUILD. Wasnt on no valve body thats for sure... I would probably have
replaced his transmission myself for 500-1000 bucks of labor in my
cramped garage. I would have saved him a grand and he would of had a NEW
transmission.

For future reference the transmissions in S-series Saturns is called a
TAAT transmission. There was some changes between a certain year but you
could of had one pulled from a wrecked Saturn for a couple hundred bucks
I would assume. Then a small shop would of probably installed it for
about 400 bucks or so. Since the TAAT isnt a GM transmission I'm not
sure what they sell for new.

If you have a true GM car these 2 links are pretty good sources.
http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/
http://mileaautogroup.com/

"Elector" > wrote in message
...
> Ten days ago I went to the Saturn dealership in Albany New York and had
> the 60,000 mile service. This was an oil change, a transmission flush and
> fill, lube all doors and what ever else they said came with that service.
>
> At the same time they said the motor mounts were bad and I had them
> replaced on the 99 SL1. Please remember this car has never had a problem
> outside of the tensioner and pulley last year. However they checked the
> car over and they said all was great to go.
>
> Now the next night after the service we notice a burning smell and see
> transmission fluid on our garage floor. I call Saturn and they said it was
> more than likely run off or spillage and not to be concerned. They also
> said that they had to replace the Coolant Temperature Sensor and that may
> also be part of the problem.
>
> Now to the fun and games department. I went in yesterday and I showed them
> the leak, they originally said it was simply a bolt that had to be
> tightened. OK so I wait 30 minutes and the guy comes out and say's that
> the leak is from the top of the transmission and that it may be a cracked
> casing. ?? Now I said why did you not see that when it was brought in 10
> days ago since this car never had a leak in its life? The guy said to
> properly diagnose the problem would take around 3 hours for $240 and then
> they could determine better what could be wrong.
>
> Well I waited over an hour and one half and the guy comes out and say's we
> drained the fluid and it was pink/purple and that the casing had a crack
> and it would now cost $1800.00+ again he said I could buy a remanufactured
> transmission for $3400.00 or a used one for $2400.00 I then stated I
> wanted the used parts back and he said there was a core charge from Saturn
> for the old transmission and that I could not now get the old parts back
> to have it looked at by a mechanic around the corner from my home. I
> called this mechanic and he said that I was taken since if you never had a
> leak before the service it was totally possible that Saturn caused the
> problem when they did the service. He also said the pink tint would come
> from a coolant leak from the radiator into the transmission, or the casing
> was cracked when they replace the motor mounts (Lower) and he found it
> very suspicious.
>
> To add insult to injury they loaned us a brand new Saturn ION and its a
> nice looking and running car. We wanted to just trade the older car in and
> they said they don't use Kelly's Blue Book or NADA but some sort of
> Auction Book and at they best they would not proceed with the repairs and
> that it was not worth anything to them, unless we paid for the repair and
> then traded in the car towards the ION we are now driving. I told this guy
> he was out of his mind. Since the major cost was labor and not the parts
> themselves and that they could have placed the older transmission back in
> and could have gotten at least $6,000 since the car is in excellent
> condition.
>
> In any case the dealerships sales man was a real asshole and we decided to
> just pay the repair bill and then buy a supplemental car from Chrysler on
> a new jeep. He then counter back with a $300-$500 off the price of the new
> car and then I said we also had a certificate for $5,000 off your best
> deal and he said be careful of the expiration date. It was for the month
> of December and I said I still have a few days left. The guy was a total
> jerk.
>
> In any way do you think the transmission could have been bad the way they
> said it did, or could the dealership actually damaged the vehicle when
> they serviced it?
>
> Elector
>
So did you pay the $1,800+ for the repair, or $240 for the diagnosis? Other
than the top mount (torque axis mount), I can't see why the other mounts
would have been bad at only 60k on the odo. I don't know how much time and
energy you have, but sounds like small claims court (or the threat of) to
me. Sorry for the hassle.

"Jonnie Santos" > wrote in message
news:ImZAd.24800$Cl3.1679@fed1read03...
>snip< So did you pay the $1,800+ for the repair, or $240 for the
>diagnosis? Other than the top mount (torque axis mount), I can't see
>why the other mounts would have been bad at only 60k on the odo. I
>don't know how much time and energy you have, but sounds like small
>claims court (or the threat of) to me. Sorry for the hassle.
>

The dealership originally thought the problem was a drain plug or
loose transmission filter. The guy also thought that the Coolant
sensor may have been the leak situation. On his taking the car up on
the life he stated that the "transmission fluid was not red but pink
or purple in color with metal shavings" he then said it was not
repairable.

I told him that 10 days ago when we came in for that 60,000 mile
service the mechanic said the motor mounts were bad and he replaced
them, did the transmission fluid flush and fill with filter, the oil
change and filter, the replacement of the CT sensor and stated that
all looked great. They even washed the car when it was snowing out.

When we showed them the work that was done and that the mechanic found
no problem with the transmission he (service manager) stated that a
problem like that could have occurred via spinning tires on icy roads
and then hitting a dry patch, or rocking the car to get out of a snow
filled road etc. I told him nothing like that has ever happened and
the snow on the ground in upstate NY was a quarter inch.

He said he would get a used transmission for the lower price with a 12
month warranty. However the Refurbished tranny from Saturn with core
charge would carry a 3 year warranty, and if anything was wrong with
it we could go to any Saturn dealer for repairs. Grand total of the
bill was $3459.00 my regular mechanic said that he felt the cause was
the motor mounts that caused the problem. Since I cannot get the
original transmission back from them it would now be pretty hard to
prove.

I did think of small claims court and that still is an option.

Elector

"Elector" > wrote in message
news
>
> "Jonnie Santos" > wrote in message
> news:ImZAd.24800$Cl3.1679@fed1read03...
>>snip< So did you pay the $1,800+ for the repair, or $240 for the
>>diagnosis? Other than the top mount (torque axis mount), I can't see why
>>the other mounts would have been bad at only 60k on the odo. I don't know
>>how much time and energy you have, but sounds like small claims court (or
>>the threat of) to me. Sorry for the hassle.
>>
>
> The dealership originally thought the problem was a drain plug or loose
> transmission filter. The guy also thought that the Coolant sensor may have
> been the leak situation. On his taking the car up on the life he stated
> that the "transmission fluid was not red but pink or purple in color with
> metal shavings" he then said it was not repairable.
>
> I told him that 10 days ago when we came in for that 60,000 mile service
> the mechanic said the motor mounts were bad and he replaced them, did the
> transmission fluid flush and fill with filter, the oil change and filter,
> the replacement of the CT sensor and stated that all looked great. They
> even washed the car when it was snowing out.
>
> When we showed them the work that was done and that the mechanic found no
> problem with the transmission he (service manager) stated that a problem
> like that could have occurred via spinning tires on icy roads and then
> hitting a dry patch, or rocking the car to get out of a snow filled road
> etc. I told him nothing like that has ever happened and the snow on the
> ground in upstate NY was a quarter inch.
>
> He said he would get a used transmission for the lower price with a 12
> month warranty. However the Refurbished tranny from Saturn with core
> charge would carry a 3 year warranty, and if anything was wrong with it we
> could go to any Saturn dealer for repairs. Grand total of the bill was
> $3459.00 my regular mechanic said that he felt the cause was the motor
> mounts that caused the problem. Since I cannot get the original
> transmission back from them it would now be pretty hard to prove.
>
> I did think of small claims court and that still is an option.
>
> Elector
>
>
Brutal... not the kind of bill I want at Christmas.

>In any way do you think the transmission could have been bad the way
>they said it did, or could the dealership actually damaged the vehicle
>when they serviced it?

I would think you have a good reason to keep going higher and higher up the
Saturn pecking order until you get answers. Generally whenever something
happens its usually the last thing that was touched. Since it happened right
after they messed with it for the service, I would think that the service had a
lot to do with it. Add to it the fact that they won't show you the part, it
sounds pretty bad.

I would tell them to go f*ck themselves and take the car out of there
immediatly.

Thats why I do all my own work........

1st of all, motor mounts dont just go overnight. In your 2nd post you
referred to "my regular mechanic", which I guess suggests that this mechanic
would have also had an opportunity to notice any problems with your car too
during the long period that it takes for motor mounts to go completely bad.

Im not being mean here, and it is unfortunate when I read another horror
story about saturns, but I dont think you can hold them entirely accountable
as you do have a second mechanic who should have noticed any problematic
issues. What has occurred between 30k and 60k miles and who did any work in
the period in between? If the ONLY mechanic working on your car in between
then was Saturn, then your complaint has more merit, but if not, then the
responsibility of this unfortunate series of events is now shared between
saturn and your "regular mechanic".

Personally (and again with all respect, Im not trying to be mean here) I
believe there is much more to this story here. Also, IMHO, if that is the
way that you were treated by Saturn, that sux and isnt the way. The salesman
should have had more patience and couth than that, and if your engine was in
such horrid condition in the 1st place, you should have been confronted by
the service writer immediately, informed about the bad condition of your car
and "asked" if you would like to talk to a salesman concerning getting out
of a potentially expensive situation and into a newer or better car, before
this whole series of events began.

IMHO, if your story is as you say, then I would immediately and without
hesitation fire your "regular mechanic" and leave your local Saturn repair
shop to go find a more competent mechanic!

marx404

"marx404" > wrote in message
...
> 1st of all, motor mounts dont just go overnight. In your 2nd post you
> referred to "my regular mechanic", which I guess suggests that this
> mechanic
> would have also had an opportunity to notice any problems with your car
> too
> during the long period that it takes for motor mounts to go completely
> bad.
>
> Im not being mean here, and it is unfortunate when I read another horror
> story about saturns, but I dont think you can hold them entirely
> accountable
> as you do have a second mechanic who should have noticed any problematic
> issues. What has occurred between 30k and 60k miles and who did any work
> in
> the period in between? If the ONLY mechanic working on your car in between
> then was Saturn, then your complaint has more merit, but if not, then the
> responsibility of this unfortunate series of events is now shared between
> saturn and your "regular mechanic".
>
> Personally (and again with all respect, Im not trying to be mean here) I
> believe there is much more to this story here. Also, IMHO, if that is the
> way that you were treated by Saturn, that sux and isnt the way. The
> salesman
> should have had more patience and couth than that, and if your engine was
> in
> such horrid condition in the 1st place, you should have been confronted by
> the service writer immediately, informed about the bad condition of your
> car
> and "asked" if you would like to talk to a salesman concerning getting out
> of a potentially expensive situation and into a newer or better car,
> before
> this whole series of events began.
>
> IMHO, if your story is as you say, then I would immediately and without
> hesitation fire your "regular mechanic" and leave your local Saturn repair
> shop to go find a more competent mechanic!
>
> marx404
>

To me the salesperson's involvement is a smoking gun. IMO, let's fix the
car right and then if the customer wants to look for other options let the
customer raise that option. Maybe it's just a sales guys being a sales guy
and there's nothing else going on - I dunno...

"marx404" > wrote in message
...
> 1st of all, motor mounts dont just go overnight. In your 2nd post
> you
> referred to "my regular mechanic", which I guess suggests that this
> mechanic
> would have also had an opportunity to notice any problems with your
> car too
> during the long period that it takes for motor mounts to go
> completely bad.
>
> Im not being mean here, and it is unfortunate when I read another
> horror
> story about saturns, but I dont think you can hold them entirely
> accountable
> as you do have a second mechanic who should have noticed any
> problematic
> issues. What has occurred between 30k and 60k miles and who did any
> work in
> the period in between? If the ONLY mechanic working on your car in
> between
> then was Saturn, then your complaint has more merit, but if not,
> then the
> responsibility of this unfortunate series of events is now shared
> between
> saturn and your "regular mechanic".
>
> Personally (and again with all respect, Im not trying to be mean
> here) I
> believe there is much more to this story here. Also, IMHO, if that
> is the
> way that you were treated by Saturn, that sux and isnt the way. The
> salesman
> should have had more patience and couth than that, and if your
> engine was in
> such horrid condition in the 1st place, you should have been
> confronted by
> the service writer immediately, informed about the bad condition of
> your car
> and "asked" if you would like to talk to a salesman concerning
> getting out
> of a potentially expensive situation and into a newer or better car,
> before
> this whole series of events began.
>
> IMHO, if your story is as you say, then I would immediately and
> without
> hesitation fire your "regular mechanic" and leave your local Saturn
> repair
> shop to go find a more competent mechanic!
>
> marx404
>
>

Well the first question as to a whole story, well at 30K the Saturn
Dealership did the service (They did not top off all fluids and the
oil drain plug was loose. They gave us the 33K oil change for free. At
36K the oil was changed OK and at 39K, 41K, 44K, 47K, 50K, all the way
through the 60K service this car has never had a serious problem. The
Tensioner and pulley were replaced via a SAE certified mechanic do to
a squeal ( I could scan every single work order and it would show
service done correctly and no problems).

At the 60K I went in for the service which included the Transmission
flush and fill, oil change and they (Saturn) said there was a bad
Coolant Temperature Sensor, and that we needed motor mounts. I have
all paper work. I also stated on arrival for that service to make sure
the job was actually done right since we have not had that great a
service with Saturn of Albany ( I also stated and proved on parking
the car that there were no leaks of any kind. Oil or transmission or
coolant. When we got the car back an hour and half later Saturn said
that the car was in great shape. They also said that the little bit of
red fluid was due to the transmission fluid being on the engine and
that it would go away as we drove it. After 9 days it still was
leaking and it was red in color, on the Saturn work order they stated
that it also had a additive added to the transmission since Saturn
recommended it at this mileage.

Not being a mechanic they looked for the leak and said it came from
the top of the transmission and that some sort of pin or other cracked
the casing to the transmission and that they did not cause it since
they replaced the lower motor mounts. Now again the car ran perfect on
service date in, and I did not question the motor mounts needing
replacement, or for the coolant temp sensor or the additive for the
transmission. I am not a mechanic.

However the initial costs quoted was $1804.00 then 45 minutes to an
hour later it jumped to over $2500.00 and then they came back and said
after examination the cost was not worth the repair. If I wanted it
back as to when it came into the dealer it would be $240 for the look
over. I was then offered a second hand transmission with a 1 year
warranty for $2800.00 or a remanufactured Saturn transmission for
$3459.00 with a full 3 year warranty and 36K miles. We opted for the
full warranty then a day later the dealer ship called and said that
Saturn needed a $1,000.00 deposit in order to even ship the
transmission. It was at this point we (Wife and I) decided to tell
Saturn that we were going to pay the bill and then sue them via the
maintenance records and that Saturn was the last to touch the car and
it had no leaks prior to the service. This made the guy at Saturn very
****ed. So we are now looking at the end of next week for the install.
They did however give us a brand new 2005 ION to drive while we were
waiting.

I will not know more until next week.

Elector

I have to admit that your particular dealership shop sounds fishy, the
answers that they are offering you, etc.. ie: when you asked about the red
fluid on the engine, why didnt they clean it off, instead of telling you
that it would go away as you drove off? No matter what your disposition,
they should have treated you and done thier work profesionally. No, you dont
even need to be a mechanic to recognize when someone is pulling your leg.

Like I said, it still strikes me odd that nobody noticed the symptoms of
broken motor mounts or the smell of leaking fluid that would have been
burning on a hot engine. You dont have to be a mechanic to notice things
like an exceptionally shaky car in idle caused by broken motor mounts or the
stinky burning smell or telltale constant fluid leak spots wherever you park
either. Thats the part that doesnt leave me all warm and fuzzy.

Nonetheless, you need to go find another mechanic. If this occurred as you
state (and kudos to you for keeping reciepts in order) then these ppl did
not handle you nor your car in a very professional manner.

marx404