Oil Change Light- 2004 VUE

I think this very much depends on the specific engine and its design. There
are some engines on the market that are known to be more susceptible to oil
feed and return passages plugging up if the oil is not changed very
frequently. There are other designs that seem to be much more forgiving.
The problem is that if you purchase a newer engine that has no previous
history, then you have no way of knowing if it is truly "better" as you
assume all newer engines are in your statement below. I personally think
being safer is less expensive in the long run.

Examples of two different engines from the same manufacturer (Chrysler) that
have completely different histories on their internal reliability are the
3.3L V6 and the 2.7L V6. Note that the newer design (the 2.7L V6) is the
one that has the problem with oil sludging and early failure. I change mine
every 3K miles just to be safe.

Bob
"C. E. White" > wrote in message
...
> > C. E. White wrote:
> > >
> > > Waste of money.
>
> For most of my life I have been a 3000 mile oil change guy.
> However, except for Jiffy Lube advertising, there is no
> reason to think this is really extending the life of your
> engine. The 3000 mile oil change recommendation has been
> around since I can first remember (1967 or so). Cars and oil
> are far better now, so I can't see that the old
> recommendation is sensible.
>
> Snipped for brevity
> Ed

The chain oiler passage on 1.9's is susceptible to clogging and
starving the timing chain. Would anyone recommend 7k oil changes on one
of those? How do you know what motor oil everyone in this group is
using? Should anyone that doesnt use a quality motor oil go that long on
their oil? Should someone living in harsh enviromental conditions and
weather changes go that long? Do you know if they drive there cars hard
or not? Do you know if they tow?

My point is what works fine for one person could be a disaster for
another. You may think 130k out of a car is fine and thats EASY to do
but I shoot for 500k. Oil and filter changes every 7k isnt going to cut
it with Ohio's weather. Plus another reason 3k is the standard and
should stay as such for the MAJORITY of people out there is because its
the only way "problems" are caught. Some people dont know how to open
their hoods and check their fluids. I've caught some VERY serious stuff
doing oil changes for people. Had they kept gone any longer who knows if
they would of ever made it into the shop.

Besides catching problems we have yet to see a way of measuring the
life of every brand of "oil filter" on the market. When does your oil
filter get bypassed? At 6000 miles I say it gets bypassed for a good 10
minutes until the oils warmed up enough to squeeze through there. Anyone
mind telling me where the oil bypass light is on the dash? I have yet to
see one.

Btw comparing old tractors to cars doesnt really work for a number of
reasons. For one they dont rev up anywhere near 7000 rpm.


In article >,
says...
> I think this very much depends on the specific engine and its design. There
> are some engines on the market that are known to be more susceptible to oil
> feed and return passages plugging up if the oil is not changed very
> frequently. There are other designs that seem to be much more forgiving.
> The problem is that if you purchase a newer engine that has no previous
> history, then you have no way of knowing if it is truly "better" as you
> assume all newer engines are in your statement below. I personally think
> being safer is less expensive in the long run.
>
> Examples of two different engines from the same manufacturer (Chrysler) that
> have completely different histories on their internal reliability are the
> 3.3L V6 and the 2.7L V6. Note that the newer design (the 2.7L V6) is the
> one that has the problem with oil sludging and early failure. I change mine
> every 3K miles just to be safe.
>
> Bob
> "C. E. White" > wrote in message
> ...
> > > C. E. White wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Waste of money.
> >
> > For most of my life I have been a 3000 mile oil change guy.
> > However, except for Jiffy Lube advertising, there is no
> > reason to think this is really extending the life of your
> > engine. The 3000 mile oil change recommendation has been
> > around since I can first remember (1967 or so). Cars and oil
> > are far better now, so I can't see that the old
> > recommendation is sensible.
> >
> > Snipped for brevity
> > Ed
>
>
>

I don't recommend exceeding the vehicle manufacturer's
recommended oil change intervals or using oil that does not
meet the vehicle manufacturer's stated requirements. I also
prefer the OE filters. In the case of the Vue I have little
choice but to use the OE Filters.

I believe (but can't prove), that most of the common cases
of sludging in modern engines (most notably in certain
Toyota engines) are the result of a faulty design. Still, I
am certain that if the manufacturer's recommendations as to
oil type and change interval are followed there will be very
few problems with sludge formation.

While it is true tractors don't spend much time at 7000 rpm,
neither do most car engines. Most tractor engines spend
significant periods of time at or near full throttle. Very
few car engines do. All in all, I suspect tractors are far
harder on the oil than most cars. Mine might set for weeks
or even months without being started, and then be run wide
open for 12 or 14 hours a day for a couple of weeks. Very
few cars that aren't in the Dakar rally ever see dust like a
farm tractor sees. I know it is not a perfect example, but I
believe farm tractor highly stress engine oil.

Oil change intervals are generally far longer in Europe. If
Vauxhall can specify 10,000 mile oil changes for their cars
that use the Ecotec engine, I am confident that 7500 oil
changes are OK for my Vue as long as the oil life monitor
agrees (7500 is the max it will allow).

3000 mile oil changes shouldn't hurt anything but they
probably aren't going to save you any money either. I know
some shops really do a good job of checking things over when
a car comes in for an oil change. However, from what I have
seen of places like Jiffy Lube, it is far more likely that
they will screw something up than that they will find a
problem. The last time I used Jiffy Lube (1989) I had to
forcibly stop them from pouring Type F Automatic
transmission fluid into my Sable (it needed Type H aka
Mercon). And even after I forced them to go get the right
fluid, I had to redo the job myself to fix the transmission
pan they warped by over tightening the bolts. That was the
last time I let them touch one of my cars except to do a
<bogus> vehicle inspection.

Ed

blah blah wrote:
>
> The chain oiler passage on 1.9's is susceptible to clogging and
> starving the timing chain. Would anyone recommend 7k oil changes on one
> of those? How do you know what motor oil everyone in this group is
> using? Should anyone that doesnt use a quality motor oil go that long on
> their oil? Should someone living in harsh enviromental conditions and
> weather changes go that long? Do you know if they drive there cars hard
> or not? Do you know if they tow?
>
> My point is what works fine for one person could be a disaster for
> another. You may think 130k out of a car is fine and thats EASY to do
> but I shoot for 500k. Oil and filter changes every 7k isnt going to cut
> it with Ohio's weather. Plus another reason 3k is the standard and
> should stay as such for the MAJORITY of people out there is because its
> the only way "problems" are caught. Some people dont know how to open
> their hoods and check their fluids. I've caught some VERY serious stuff
> doing oil changes for people. Had they kept gone any longer who knows if
> they would of ever made it into the shop.
>
> Besides catching problems we have yet to see a way of measuring the
> life of every brand of "oil filter" on the market. When does your oil
> filter get bypassed? At 6000 miles I say it gets bypassed for a good 10
> minutes until the oils warmed up enough to squeeze through there. Anyone
> mind telling me where the oil bypass light is on the dash? I have yet to
> see one.
>
> Btw comparing old tractors to cars doesnt really work for a number of
> reasons. For one they dont rev up anywhere near 7000 rpm.
>
> In article >,
> says...
> > I think this very much depends on the specific engine and its design. There
> > are some engines on the market that are known to be more susceptible to oil
> > feed and return passages plugging up if the oil is not changed very
> > frequently. There are other designs that seem to be much more forgiving.
> > The problem is that if you purchase a newer engine that has no previous
> > history, then you have no way of knowing if it is truly "better" as you
> > assume all newer engines are in your statement below. I personally think
> > being safer is less expensive in the long run.
> >
> > Examples of two different engines from the same manufacturer (Chrysler) that
> > have completely different histories on their internal reliability are the
> > 3.3L V6 and the 2.7L V6. Note that the newer design (the 2.7L V6) is the
> > one that has the problem with oil sludging and early failure. I change mine
> > every 3K miles just to be safe.
> >
> > Bob
> > "C. E. White" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > > C. E. White wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Waste of money.
> > >
> > > For most of my life I have been a 3000 mile oil change guy.
> > > However, except for Jiffy Lube advertising, there is no
> > > reason to think this is really extending the life of your
> > > engine. The 3000 mile oil change recommendation has been
> > > around since I can first remember (1967 or so). Cars and oil
> > > are far better now, so I can't see that the old
> > > recommendation is sensible.
> > >
> > > Snipped for brevity
> > > Ed
> >
> >
> >

In article >, says...
> I don't recommend exceeding the vehicle manufacturer's
> recommended oil change intervals or using oil that does not
> meet the vehicle manufacturer's stated requirements. I also
> prefer the OE filters. In the case of the Vue I have little
> choice but to use the OE Filters.
>
> I believe (but can't prove), that most of the common cases
> of sludging in modern engines (most notably in certain
> Toyota engines) are the result of a faulty design. Still, I
> am certain that if the manufacturer's recommendations as to
> oil type and change interval are followed there will be very
> few problems with sludge formation.
>
> While it is true tractors don't spend much time at 7000 rpm,
> neither do most car engines. Most tractor engines spend
> significant periods of time at or near full throttle.

Full throttle on any tractor is about 2100 RPM. I cant think of any
tractors/heavy equipment/semi's that would or could go above that
because their torque range is built in very low. So again tractors arent
comparable. There is to many variables out there to say "hey dont change
your oil so often". I've seen plenty of low mileage late model cars
using "modern oils" with lots of varnish and caked on deposits on their
dipsticks to know they dont do regular 3k-4k oil changes. To say
sludging isnt a problem any more is news to me.

Some Toyota 6 cylinder engines are another examples of cars which tend to
sludge up.


"Bob Shuman" > wrote in message
...
>I think this very much depends on the specific engine and its design.
>There
> are some engines on the market that are known to be more susceptible to
> oil
> feed and return passages plugging up if the oil is not changed very
> frequently. There are other designs that seem to be much more forgiving.
> The problem is that if you purchase a newer engine that has no previous
> history, then you have no way of knowing if it is truly "better" as you
> assume all newer engines are in your statement below. I personally think
> being safer is less expensive in the long run.
>
> Examples of two different engines from the same manufacturer (Chrysler)
> that
> have completely different histories on their internal reliability are the
> 3.3L V6 and the 2.7L V6. Note that the newer design (the 2.7L V6) is the
> one that has the problem with oil sludging and early failure. I change
> mine
> every 3K miles just to be safe.
>
> Bob
> "C. E. White" > wrote in message
> ...
>> > C. E. White wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Waste of money.
>>
>> For most of my life I have been a 3000 mile oil change guy.
>> However, except for Jiffy Lube advertising, there is no
>> reason to think this is really extending the life of your
>> engine. The 3000 mile oil change recommendation has been
>> around since I can first remember (1967 or so). Cars and oil
>> are far better now, so I can't see that the old
>> recommendation is sensible.
>>
>> Snipped for brevity
>> Ed
>
>

I pay about $1700 per year on insurance. Why wouldn't I pay $60 a year for
oil changes at 5000km/3months.

The oil so far has been a better and more used investment.
"C. E. White" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Chuck wrote:
>>
>> C. E. White wrote:
>> >
>> > Waste of money.
>> >
>> Maybe - but an oil change costs me about $12.50 and a half-hour of my
>> time.
>> Can't be any easier than on a VUE.
>
> For most of my life I have been a 3000 mile oil change guy.
> However, except for Jiffy Lube advertising, there is no
> reason to think this is really extending the life of your
> engine. The 3000 mile oil change recommendation has been
> around since I can first remember (1967 or so). Cars and oil
> are far better now, so I can't see that the old
> recommendation is sensible. I have family examples that
> indicate to me that I have always been too conservative. I
> have two Sisters who really don't care about cars. My older
> Sister is particularly disinterested in automobile
> maintenance. In the past she had her oil changed whenever I
> complained about her lack of car care (and I actually did
> the change). Her current Honda at least reminds her to
> change the oil with an odometer driven indicator. It goes
> red every 7500 miles. When this happens, she will actually
> tell me that her oil needs changing. Despite this, and her
> mostly stop and go driving pattern, she has never had any
> sort of engine problem related to oil (current 8 year old
> Honda's is over 110,000 miles). My other Sister does follow
> the published maintenance schedules and has the work done at
> the dealers. Likewise, she has never had any sort of problem
> related to engine oil. Her previous cars all made it well
> past 130k miles. Finally, we have a small farm. I have
> always changed the oil in the farm tractors based on engine
> hours, at the manufacturer's recommended intervals. Two of
> the three tractors specify 150 hours. I think this is
> roughly equivalent to 5000 miles (150 hours at 35 mph = 5250
> miles). The engines in farm tractors are worked much harder
> on average than automobile engines (but they are also well
> built diesels). Despite this none of our tractors has ever
> had an oil related engine failure. The older tractor (24
> years old) now has over 7000 hours (roughly equivalent to
> 250,000 miles) and still runs well (and has the original
> turbo).
>
> I really like the idea that my Vue has an indicator that
> calculates oil life based on more than just miles. I've
> always though the normal and severe service definitions were
> fuzzy and open to a lot of interpretation. This is why I
> change the oil in my Ford every 3000 miles (Ford severe
> service schedule). I honestly do not think I am doing severe
> service, but the line is fuzzy. The Vue handles this for me.
> I am confident that as long as I change my oil at least as
> often as the light tell me to, I am fulfilling my warranty
> requirements and not reducing the life of my engine.
>
> I do agree that the Vue is one of the easiest cars I've ever
> had to change the oil on. I can do it in 15 minutes or so.
> Still, if it is not saving you any money in the long run,
> why double up on the oil changes? Assuming you are going to
> keep your Vue for 150,000 miles, 3000 mile oil changes
> instead of 6000 mile oil changes will cost you an extra $300
> and 6 hours of your life. Unless there is some saving
> associated with this, which I doubt there will be, is the
> feeling of accomplishment or peace of mind really worth and
> extra $300 and 6 hours every few years? If the answer is
> yes, then I can understand why you change the oil so often.
> For me the 3000 mile oil changes is a hard habit to break,
> but at least in the case of the Vue, GM gave me a good
> reason to break it.
>
> Ed

blah blah wrote:

> Full throttle on any tractor is about 2100 RPM. I cant think of any
> tractors/heavy equipment/semi's that would or could go above that
> because their torque range is built in very low. So again tractors arent
> comparable. There is to many variables out there to say "hey dont change
> your oil so often". I've seen plenty of low mileage late model cars
> using "modern oils" with lots of varnish and caked on deposits on their
> dipsticks to know they dont do regular 3k-4k oil changes. To say
> sludging isnt a problem any more is news to me.

You say you know "they don't do regular 3k-4k oil changes"
but what makes you think they changed them inside the
manufacturer's recommended interval? As I said before, I
don't believe you should exceed the manufacturer's
recommended interval. I did not mean to imply you can go
forever without changing oil. In the case of my Vue, I am
now at 29,000 miles. I changed the oil once at 1000 miles
(old habit), again at 7500 miles, again at around 14,000
miles, again at around 20,000 miles, and the last time at
approximately 27,000 miles. In all cases the oil that came
out looked good. I have no ugly deposits on the dip stick.
What I can see inside the valve cover looks nice and clean.
I have not actually waited for the "change oil soon" light
to come on. I intend to wait for it, but it seems that I
always find a reason for changing it early (free weekend,
trip coming up, etc.).

Ed

Roy wrote:
>
> I pay about $1700 per year on insurance. Why wouldn't I pay $60 a year for
> oil changes at 5000km/3months.
>
> The oil so far has been a better and more used investment.

How do you know this? What makes you think that you would
have had more problems if you had followed the
manufacturer's oil change intervals? At least with insurance
there are some statistics that let you evaluate the cost,
risk, and rewards. You are claiming a reward based on a lack
of knowledge. Except for my Vue, I change the oil in my
vehicles according to the severe service schedule. I do this
becasue I really don't know what severe service is. I doubt
that I really need to do this, but at least I can point to
some back-up for the decision. The Vue's oil life monitor
actually takes into account my driving pattern to calculate
an oil change intervals. This removes much of the
uncertainty. Why wouldn't you take advantage of this
feature? Do you think GM has some secret agenda? What is the
benefit to GM of stretching out oil change intervals? Fewer
oil change jobs for their dealers? Fewer filters sold?
Unhappy Customers becasue engines failed prematurely?

When was the last time you had an oil related failure? I
can't think of a single example of me, anyone in my family,
or even a close friend who has had an oil related failure in
the last 20 years. The last one I am persoanlly familar with
was a co-worker who had a 1978 Oldsmobile 350. He followed
the GM oil change intervals to the letter - changed the oil
every 7500 miles and the filter every other oil change. He
used Quaker State 10W40. When the car got around 60k miles
he had to replace several rocker arms. Apparently this was a
common problem on this engine. While we was working on the
engine, he removed the intake and cleanded out the lifter
valley. It was full of some sort of waxy mess. After that,
he switched to Havoline, continued with his old 7500 mile
oil change routine and never had another problem. Whether
his problem was the oil, the engine, or the fact that he
probably should have followed the severe service schedule
(he drove 2 miles to work one way - lots of short trips), I
can't say for certain. However this co-worker hasn't had a
problem again with his engines despite sticking to the
"normal" oil change intervals.

Ed

I've had oil related failures with a couple of my 15 cars in the past. My
father was a mechanic so while working with him I've seen lots of other
engines that were the victim of neglect as well.

I didn't say you were wrong to extend the period between oil changes or to
trust the Vue's monitor. My point was that if I'm paying 1700 a year for
insurance plus another $300 a month for the car itself why not dig deep and
find $5 a month to pay for oil changes whether it needs it or not. I clean
the dust out of my computer every month too. Sorry if I like to be cautious.

Another reason I like to keep it new is mileage. My girlfriend has the same
car, same engine, same year with about 5000km more on her odometer. Her oil
changes are much less frequent than mine. I average 14.5km/L (34mpg) while
she gets about 13km/L (30mpg). Granted there may be other factors there like
driving style, highway vs city, etc...but at $0.94 per litre(44% of our gas
is tax) $3.55 a gallon (2.84 USD at current exchange rate) if I can get any
improvment to fuel efficiency I'll take it.

Just to let you know my winter tires were down to about 35% tread left so
last week I "threw away" $500 on some new ones. The difference in traction
was like switching from all seasons to new Blizzaks. I figure I'll put the
worn ones back on in the spring and wear away the rest of the tread during
the spring, summer and fall (might even take a couple years to wear them
down). There I go being cautious again.
"C. E. White" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Roy wrote:
>>
>> I pay about $1700 per year on insurance. Why wouldn't I pay $60 a year
>> for
>> oil changes at 5000km/3months.
>>
>> The oil so far has been a better and more used investment.
>
> How do you know this? What makes you think that you would
> have had more problems if you had followed the
> manufacturer's oil change intervals? At least with insurance
> there are some statistics that let you evaluate the cost,
> risk, and rewards. You are claiming a reward based on a lack
> of knowledge. Except for my Vue, I change the oil in my
> vehicles according to the severe service schedule. I do this
> becasue I really don't know what severe service is. I doubt
> that I really need to do this, but at least I can point to
> some back-up for the decision. The Vue's oil life monitor
> actually takes into account my driving pattern to calculate
> an oil change intervals. This removes much of the
> uncertainty. Why wouldn't you take advantage of this
> feature? Do you think GM has some secret agenda? What is the
> benefit to GM of stretching out oil change intervals? Fewer
> oil change jobs for their dealers? Fewer filters sold?
> Unhappy Customers becasue engines failed prematurely?
>
> When was the last time you had an oil related failure? I
> can't think of a single example of me, anyone in my family,
> or even a close friend who has had an oil related failure in
> the last 20 years. The last one I am persoanlly familar with
> was a co-worker who had a 1978 Oldsmobile 350. He followed
> the GM oil change intervals to the letter - changed the oil
> every 7500 miles and the filter every other oil change. He
> used Quaker State 10W40. When the car got around 60k miles
> he had to replace several rocker arms. Apparently this was a
> common problem on this engine. While we was working on the
> engine, he removed the intake and cleanded out the lifter
> valley. It was full of some sort of waxy mess. After that,
> he switched to Havoline, continued with his old 7500 mile
> oil change routine and never had another problem. Whether
> his problem was the oil, the engine, or the fact that he
> probably should have followed the severe service schedule
> (he drove 2 miles to work one way - lots of short trips), I
> can't say for certain. However this co-worker hasn't had a
> problem again with his engines despite sticking to the
> "normal" oil change intervals.
>
> Ed

Saturn S Series

Why regular oil changes are a must and why you should ignore the "oil
change light".

-Oil pressure is used as hydraulic fluid to ratchet up the timing chain
tensioner.

-If varnish forms in the timing chain tensioner bore then this system
can fail and the chain will become loose and eventually break.


Mechanics see the issues related to automakers "prolonged service
intervals" every day. When people giving advice on oil actually work on
cars for a living or pass the 500,000 mile mark on their odometer and
still have as much pep in their engines as when they were new maybe then
I'll listen to their "opinions".



In article >, "Roy"
<crawroy @ nbnet.nb.ca> says...
> I've had oil related failures with a couple of my 15 cars in the past. My
> father was a mechanic so while working with him I've seen lots of other
> engines that were the victim of neglect as well.
>
> I didn't say you were wrong to extend the period between oil changes or to
> trust the Vue's monitor. My point was that if I'm paying 1700 a year for
> insurance plus another $300 a month for the car itself why not dig deep and
> find $5 a month to pay for oil changes whether it needs it or not. I clean
> the dust out of my computer every month too. Sorry if I like to be cautious.
>
> Another reason I like to keep it new is mileage. My girlfriend has the same
> car, same engine, same year with about 5000km more on her odometer. Her oil
> changes are much less frequent than mine. I average 14.5km/L (34mpg) while
> she gets about 13km/L (30mpg). Granted there may be other factors there like
> driving style, highway vs city, etc...but at $0.94 per litre(44% of our gas
> is tax) $3.55 a gallon (2.84 USD at current exchange rate) if I can get any
> improvment to fuel efficiency I'll take it.
>
> Just to let you know my winter tires were down to about 35% tread left so
> last week I "threw away" $500 on some new ones. The difference in traction
> was like switching from all seasons to new Blizzaks. I figure I'll put the
> worn ones back on in the spring and wear away the rest of the tread during
> the spring, summer and fall (might even take a couple years to wear them
> down). There I go being cautious again.
> "C. E. White" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >