'96 Legacy Outback

On Sat, 21 May 2011 11:42:00 -0400, John wrote:

> On 5/20/2011 5:00 PM, Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B wrote:
>> So, I bought a '96 Legacy Outback that has been sitting for about 4
>> years. It has 157,000 miles on it. Everything looks good, coolant nice and
>> green, brake fluid a nice light brown color, like brand new, oil a little
>> dark but not black. Must have been serviced right before being parked.
>>
>> Now, I know there is a radiator treatment from Subaru that might possibly
>> keep head gaskets fresh...? Obviously changing the oil is a no brainer.
>> The car has been started and idled a couple times in the last two years.
>>
>> What else should I do? And esp about any flushing, like the radiator or
>> the oil...?
>
> A '96 would have a 2.2L correct? No HG problems with those


My '97 has a 2.2L and has a BHG...

> jim beam wrote:
>> On 05/21/2011 08:34 AM, Steve W. wrote:
>>> Hachiroku ???? wrote:
>>>> So, I bought a '96 Legacy Outback that has been sitting for
>>>> about 4 years. It has 157,000 miles on it. Everything looks
>>>> good, coolant nice and green, brake fluid a nice light brown
>>>> color, like brand new, oil a little dark but not black. Must
>>>> have been serviced right before being parked. Now, I know there
>>>> is a radiator treatment from Subaru that might possibly keep
>>>> head gaskets fresh...? Obviously changing the oil is a no
>>>> brainer. The car has been started and idled a couple times in
>>>> the last two years. What else should I do? And esp about any
>>>> flushing, like the radiator or the oil...?
>>>
>>>
>>> Brake fluid should be almost clear not brown, brown means there
>>> is rust somewhere.
>>
>> not on a subaru with an aluminum cylinder. brown fluid is
>> primarily the result of moisture absorption, and maybe a little
>> seal rubber wear.
>>
>
> Guess the rust couldn't possibly come from the steel brake lines, or
> the steel liner in the caliper bores combined with moisture
> absorption from the air.
>
>>
>>>
>>> I would check ALL moving surfaces for rust. Rotors that haven't
>>> moved in 4 years are likely rusted bad. Brake pads and shoes will
>>> rot if they hold moisture for long. They tend to swell and
>>> crumble due to the metallics used in them.
>>>
>>> Check the calipers to make sure they are free while you're
>>> working on the brakes. You will also want to check any of the
>>> normal wear items.
>>>
>>> Tires for dry rot.
>>
>> you just mean cracking. "dry rot" is wood fungus.
>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_rot>
>
> No I mean dry rot. Between ozone exposure, UV, heat, age and use of
> many tire dressings the rubber starts to break down and fail. Cracks,
> soft areas, rubber flaking are all signs.
>


--
Steve W.

jim beam > wrote:
>
>you just mean cracking. "dry rot" is wood fungus.
><http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_rot>

He means dry rot. That fungus will also grow on rubber and it sends tiny
little myceliae down into the rubber and weakens it. It's a big problem
when natural rubber is used for cable insulation outdoors and it similarly
can cause weakness in tires.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On 05/22/2011 07:01 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> jim > wrote:
>>
>> you just mean cracking. "dry rot" is wood fungus.
>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_rot>
>
> He means dry rot. That fungus will also grow on rubber and it sends tiny
> little myceliae down into the rubber and weakens it. It's a big problem
> when natural rubber is used for cable insulation outdoors and it similarly
> can cause weakness in tires.
> --scott

there are indeed biodegradation mechanisms for rubber polymers, and
fungal is just one of them, but it's really not an issue with tire
rubbers unless already degraded by uv and/or ozone. what some people
like steve refer to as "dry rot" is just simple uv/oxidation degradation.


--
nomina rutrum rutrum

On 05/21/2011 07:51 PM, Steve W. wrote:
>> jim beam wrote:
>>> On 05/21/2011 08:34 AM, Steve W. wrote:
>>>> Hachiroku ???? wrote:
>>>>> So, I bought a '96 Legacy Outback that has been sitting for
>>>>> about 4 years. It has 157,000 miles on it. Everything looks
>>>>> good, coolant nice and green, brake fluid a nice light brown
>>>>> color, like brand new, oil a little dark but not black. Must
>>>>> have been serviced right before being parked. Now, I know there
>>>>> is a radiator treatment from Subaru that might possibly keep
>>>>> head gaskets fresh...? Obviously changing the oil is a no brainer.
>>>>> The car has been started and idled a couple times in
>>>>> the last two years. What else should I do? And esp about any
>>>>> flushing, like the radiator or the oil...?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Brake fluid should be almost clear not brown, brown means there
>>>> is rust somewhere.
>>>
>>> not on a subaru with an aluminum cylinder. brown fluid is
>>> primarily the result of moisture absorption, and maybe a little
>>> seal rubber wear.
>>>
>>
>> Guess the rust couldn't possibly come from the steel brake lines, or
>> the steel liner in the caliper bores combined with moisture
>> absorption from the air.

supposition, not observation.


>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I would check ALL moving surfaces for rust. Rotors that haven't
>>>> moved in 4 years are likely rusted bad. Brake pads and shoes will
>>>> rot if they hold moisture for long. They tend to swell and
>>>> crumble due to the metallics used in them.
>>>>
>>>> Check the calipers to make sure they are free while you're
>>>> working on the brakes. You will also want to check any of the
>>>> normal wear items.
>>>>
>>>> Tires for dry rot.
>>>
>>> you just mean cracking. "dry rot" is wood fungus.
>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_rot>
>>
>> No I mean dry rot. Between ozone exposure, UV, heat, age and use of
>> many tire dressings the rubber starts to break down and fail. Cracks,
>> soft areas, rubber flaking are all signs.

we all understand what you mean, but "dry rot" is a fungus - read the
link. what you're referring to is simply "cracking" or if you want to
be more technical, "degradation".


--
nomina rutrum rutrum

Steve W. wrote:
> Hachiroku ???? wrote:
>> So, I bought a '96 Legacy Outback that has been sitting for about 4
>> years. It has 157,000 miles on it. Everything looks good, coolant nice
>> and
>> green, brake fluid a nice light brown color, like brand new, oil a little
>> dark but not black. Must have been serviced right before being parked.
>> Now, I know there is a radiator treatment from Subaru that might possibly
>> keep head gaskets fresh...? Obviously changing the oil is a no
>> brainer. The car has been started and idled a couple times in the last
>> two years.
>> What else should I do? And esp about any flushing, like the radiator or
>> the oil...?
>
>
> Brake fluid should be almost clear not brown, brown means there is rust
> somewhere.
>
> I would check ALL moving surfaces for rust.
> Rotors that haven't moved in 4 years are likely rusted bad. Brake pads
> and shoes will rot if they hold moisture for long. They tend to swell
> and crumble due to the metallics used in them.
>
> Check the calipers to make sure they are free while you're working on
> the brakes. You will also want to check any of the normal wear items.
>
> Tires for dry rot. Especially if they were low or flat.
>

Dry rot? Good luck finding a tire with natural cotton
carcass. They are all synthetic fiber, and have been for
many years.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On May 21, 11:12Â*am, jim beam > wrote:
> On 05/21/2011 07:49 AM, 1 Lucky Texan wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 21, 9:14 am, jim > Â*wrote:
> >> On 05/20/2011 09:25 PM, 1 Lucky Texan wrote:
>
> >>> On May 20, 4:56 pm, Hachiroku > Â* Â*wrote:
> >>>> On Fri, 20 May 2011 13:11:26 -0700, m6onz5a wrote:
> >>>>> On May 20, 5:00 pm, Hachiroku > Â* Â*wrote:
> >>>>>> So, Â*I bought a '96 Legacy Outback that has been sitting for about 4
> >>>>>> years. It has 157,000 miles on it. Everything looks good, coolant nice and
> >>>>>> green, brake fluid a nice light brown color, like brand new, oil a little
> >>>>>> dark but not black. Must have been serviced right before being parked.
>
> >>>>>> Now, I know there is a radiator treatment from Subaru that might possibly
> >>>>>> keep head gaskets fresh...? Obviously changing the oil is a no brainer.
> >>>>>> The car has been started and idled a couple times in the last two years.
>
> >>>>>> What else should I do? And esp about any flushing, like the radiator or
> >>>>>> the oil...?
>
> >>>>> Isn't brake fluid supposed to be clear???
>
> >>>>> Get the old fuel out of it
>
> >>>> Oh, yeah. Actually, he put a few gallons in last year, so adding fresh gas
> >>>> should work.
>
> >>> Maybe Techron treatment for the injectors. Maybe throttle body cleaner.

On 05/23/2011 08:28 AM, weelliott wrote:
<snip for clarity>

> but contrary to Jim's claim, there is
> such a thing as a roll-over from a tire failure. It is not uncommon.

it's not uncommon in vehicles with poor roll dynamics. it hardly ever
happens in vehicles with good roll dynamics. a flat tire is absolutely
no reason for a vehicle to roll. ever.


> The chief mechanism at work is the bare rim digging into soft asphalt.
> This happens if the vehicle is turning. Losing a tire can easily lead
> to an unstable vehicle, and at the hands of someone not trained to
> deal with it, it is easy to wind up with the vehicle at high slip
> angles (except metal digging into asphalt doesn't create a slip angle
> like rubber on asphalt does.) where it is easy to debead a flat tire,
> dig a rim in, and send a vehicle rolling. (Incidentally, the main
> ideas behind surviving a tire loss is smoothness: Nothing abrupt. Go
> as straight as possible. Don't use the brakes if you don't have to.)

you've been hitting the kool-aid too hard dude. a vehicle that has
properly designed roll dynamics is almost impossible to flip. it works
like this: if a vehicle corners, it rolls away from the direction of
turn. when you straighten, the depressed side of the suspension bounces
back to equilibrium. now, if at the same time as that bounce-back is
happening, you steer in the opposite direction, you have two components
trying to flip the vehicle, the cornering, /and/ the bounce-back. on a
a vehicle with good roll dynamics, the sum of these two components does
not exceed the force necessary to tip the center of gravity over the
vehicle's edge. e.g. crown vic. on vehicles with poor dynamics, it's
easy to do. e.g. old exploder, bronco, etc. add in a flat tire, which
is a completely predictable occurrence that should absolutely be part of
the design, and you have your dynamics model.

now, manufacturers have known all this for a long time - but addressing
it means lower profitability because suspension needs to be better and
cost more. add in a lobbyable political environment where the nhtsa has
been persuaded to stick with a "j-curve" roll test - where you only test
for flip-over in one direction [and no flat tire] - as opposed to the
safer and more revealing "s-curve" test, where you have bounce-back from
the first curve added to the steering of the second, and you have a
recipe for major corporation executives to avoid jail for manslaughter,
and for p.r. agencies to astroturf and brainwash people like you into
thinking it's "just an accident" when their wife and kids get crushed to
death in a vehicle where not only have the /known/ roll dynamics been
ignored, but just for icing on the cake, the cabin roof has not been
reinforced to withstand rollover.

have you ever watched the fire crews hose off the road after one of
these vehicles has flipped, decapitating the occupants? i have. i have
also watched executives from frod show up in d.c. with FIVE lobbyists
per representative in opposition to firestone with two corporate execs
and no lobbyists. no prizes for guessing who got the fire hose in that
kissing contest.


--
nomina rutrum rutrum

On Sat, 21 May 2011 07:49:33 -0700 (PDT), 1 Lucky Texan
> wrote:

>On May 21, 9:14*am, jim beam > wrote:
>> On 05/20/2011 09:25 PM, 1 Lucky Texan wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > On May 20, 4:56 pm, Hachiroku > *wrote:
>> >> On Fri, 20 May 2011 13:11:26 -0700, m6onz5a wrote:
>> >>> On May 20, 5:00 pm, Hachiroku > *wrote:
>> >>>> So, *I bought a '96 Legacy Outback that has been sitting for about 4
>> >>>> years. It has 157,000 miles on it. Everything looks good, coolant nice and
>> >>>> green, brake fluid a nice light brown color, like brand new, oil a little
>> >>>> dark but not black. Must have been serviced right before being parked.
>>
>> >>>> Now, I know there is a radiator treatment from Subaru that might possibly
>> >>>> keep head gaskets fresh...? Obviously changing the oil is a no brainer.
>> >>>> The car has been started and idled a couple times in the last two years.
>>
>> >>>> What else should I do? And esp about any flushing, like the radiator or
>> >>>> the oil...?
>>
>> >>> Isn't brake fluid supposed to be clear???
>>
>> >>> Get the old fuel out of it
>>
>> >> Oh, yeah. Actually, he put a few gallons in last year, so adding fresh gas
>> >> should work.
>>
>> > Maybe Techron treatment for the injectors. Maybe throttle body cleaner.
>> > (make certain it's safe for MAF sensors.)
>> > I'd very carefully test the brakes - or just put pads and maybe rotors
>> > on anyway.
>>
>> pads and rotors don't age dude. *elastomers do, so you'd be more on
>> target if you had said "brake seals". *maybe.
>>
>> > Don't trust tires if they might be 5-6-7 years old.
>>
>> dude, i know frod have succeeded in brainwashing a lot of folk into
>> thinking that their known inherently unstable exploder platform's
>> occupant deaths were the fault of its tires [they're not - no vehicle
>> should roll just because of a flat. *ever.], but you don't need to be
>> one of them. *a tire that's 5-6-7 years old is perfectly fine unless
>> it's been sitting in an ozone oven baked under u.v. for that period.
>> [and no, just sitting out in the sun in your texas backyard doesn't
>> count.] *even if you can see anything, surface stuff doesn't matter
>> anyway. *and you'll note that because they're not keeping their sponsor
>> out of the limelight for multiple wrongful death lawsuits, the rotting
>> rubber fairy doesn't encourage you to replace all the suspension
>> rubbers, shock deal rubbers, vacuum, coolant, hydraulic, fuel and oil
>> hoses, or all body glass sealants, or all the engine and transmission
>> seals at the same time.
>>
>> > 2-3
>> > drain-change cycles for auto tranny.
>>
>> > IIRC, the coolant treatment is only efffective for external leaks. Mid
>> > 90's 2.5 liters had the 'bad' oil-in-coolant leaks.
>>
>> --
>> nomina rutrum rutrum
>
>
>You may have a point with the brake pads. But swapping them out gives
>you the opportunity to wire-brush off any rust, relube caliper pins,
>beed/flush the system too.
>
>and her's a snip about tires;
>
>******German vehicle manufacturers (including Audi, Volkswagen, BMW,
>and Mercedes) and Toyota began adding warnings about tire age in their
>owner's manuals beginning in the early 1990s. They differed a bit, but
>the messages were consistent: Tires more than six years old present an
>increased risk.
>
>For instance, a Volkswagen manual says: "WARNING: Old tires can fail
>in use, causing loss of vehicle control and personal injury. Replace
>tires after six years regardless of tread wear. Always reduce speed
>and drive cautiously if you must use an old tire in an emergency.
>Replace the tire as soon as possible." A Toyota warning reads: "Any
>tires which are over six years old must be checked by a qualified
>technician even if damage is not obvious. Tires deteriorate with age
>even if they have never or seldom been used. This also applies to the
>spare tire and tires stored for future use."
>
>European manufacturers developed these warnings based on research
>results. For example, the German testing and scientific research firm
>DEKRA issued a "special topic" report in 1986 examining tire defects
>that resulted in crashes. The study found an increase in tread
>separations after two years and a continuous increase from the fifth
>through the eighth years, with a dramatic increase in tires more than
>six years old. These researchers concluded that consumers should not
>drive on tires that are six or more years old, regardless of tread
>depth, particularly tires stored for an extended period of time.
>
>The results of another German study concluded that failure frequency
>rose disproportionately with increasing tire age . It estimated that a
>breakdown of a nine year old tire was eight times as likely as a
>breakdown of a two year old tire. The author noted that one reason
>"over aged" tires were being sold was the "consumer unfriendly" way
>the date of manufacture was coded in the DOT number. The author shared
>the results with vehicle and tire manufacturers. ******
>
>more from;http://www.ammonslaw.com/publication...of-aging-tires

It's all a scam between all the players,.. all of them want to escape
liability so they go on record saying people should replace perfectly
good tires. Then they get to sell more new tires. It's a win for
everyone but the guy who is actually paying for and using the tires.
I've had far far more failures on low mileage, nearly new tires then
on any form of old tire. Firestones are the worst but I had 2 out of
4 Pirellis fail before 3 years and 28,000 miles. And not due to low
inflation pressure.

On May 20, 5:00 pm, Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B > wrote:
> So, I bought a '96 Legacy Outback that has been sitting for about 4
> years. It has 157,000 miles on it. Everything looks good, coolant nice and
> green, brake fluid a nice light brown color, like brand new, oil a little
> dark but not black. Must have been serviced right before being parked.
>
> Now, I know there is a radiator treatment from Subaru that might possibly
> keep head gaskets fresh...? Obviously changing the oil is a no brainer.
> The car has been started and idled a couple times in the last two years.
>
> What else should I do? And esp about any flushing, like the radiator or
> the oil...?

I'd still change all fluids, and bank a little money for potential
future (soon) replacements of anything that whirls that isn't lubed by
engine oil or gear oil (e.g. water pump, alternator, AC compressor,
"cartridge" type wheel bearings) I went through this about a decade
ago with a GTI 16V that was about the same deal. It was a nice car
but I didn't trust it as much as my Scirocco that had 2x the miles but
had apparently been in constant service its entire life.

The funny thing is that I sold it to a friend of mine and apparently
the only major repairs that she had to do to it were replacing the
transaxle (it'd had a noise in reverse that sounded like a broken
tooth since before I bought it, and it eventually crapped out) and one
window that I fixed for her after some neighborhood kids busted it
out. So go figure.

nate