GM OBD1 and no O2 codes?

Steve Austin wrote:
> Nate Nagel wrote:
>> Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>> Mike Romain > wrote:
>>>
>>>> I guess the next dumb question from a backyard mechanic who 'really,
>>>> really' wants to drive 250 km 'tomorrow' on a holiday Monday up here
>>>> in Canada to get to a cottage for a few weeks vacation with my wife
>>>> would be can I hot wire the sucker to the other coil HT post and get
>>>> away with it? LOL!
>>>
>>>
>>> Then you really WILL blow your muffler off.
>>> --scott
>>>
>>
>> well... not if it is a waste spark ignition system and he connects the
>> wire to the other cylinder in that pair.
>>
>> Keep in mind that this is assuming a whole lot of stuff about this
>> particular car that I don't know for sure.
>>
>> nate
>>
>
> Only one plug at a time will fire then. I gotta agree with
> scott

Ok... If each coil sends two sparks at once and one spark is 'wasted',
then why can't I make a new connection to the post to replace the one
that failed?

I would be 'basically' putting a T fitting on #6 plug wire to fire #3 on
the 'waste' spark. Actually I think I will jumper the plug wire ends at
the coil under the boots with a spare chunk of plug wire trimmed at the
ends. If it doesn't backfire or shoot sparks all over creation, then #3
should get the spark on it's compression stroke right?

Other than that I will just unplug that injector and drive easy. It
'did' make it down here the 250 km for our supply run running on 5
cylinders.... I can find a coil at my destination tomorrow or sometime
in the next few weeks when I need the car again.

Mike

Mike Romain wrote:
> Steve Austin wrote:
>> Nate Nagel wrote:
>>> Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>>> Mike Romain > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I guess the next dumb question from a backyard mechanic who
>>>>> 'really, really' wants to drive 250 km 'tomorrow' on a holiday
>>>>> Monday up here in Canada to get to a cottage for a few weeks
>>>>> vacation with my wife would be can I hot wire the sucker to the
>>>>> other coil HT post and get away with it? LOL!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Then you really WILL blow your muffler off.
>>>> --scott
>>>>
>>>
>>> well... not if it is a waste spark ignition system and he connects
>>> the wire to the other cylinder in that pair.
>>>
>>> Keep in mind that this is assuming a whole lot of stuff about this
>>> particular car that I don't know for sure.
>>>
>>> nate
>>>
>>
>> Only one plug at a time will fire then. I gotta agree with
>> scott
>
> Ok... If each coil sends two sparks at once and one spark is 'wasted',
> then why can't I make a new connection to the post to replace the one
> that failed?
>
> I would be 'basically' putting a T fitting on #6 plug wire to fire #3 on
> the 'waste' spark. Actually I think I will jumper the plug wire ends at
> the coil under the boots with a spare chunk of plug wire trimmed at the
> ends. If it doesn't backfire or shoot sparks all over creation, then #3
> should get the spark on it's compression stroke right?
>
> Other than that I will just unplug that injector and drive easy. It
> 'did' make it down here the 250 km for our supply run running on 5
> cylinders.... I can find a coil at my destination tomorrow or sometime
> in the next few weeks when I need the car again.
>
> Mike

Well folks I know for sure this engine runs just fine with the coil post
for #6 cylinder going to the #3 spark plug because it was that way when
I got it. If anyone remembers, my firing order was seriously messed up
but it ran nice. The previous owner had fun with the waste spark firing
order....

Sooo... I hotwired an old plug wire to the post under the boot for #6
and just plugged it's end into the clip under the boot for the #3 plug
and away it runs. The miss is gone and my timing light show fire on
both 3 and 6 no problem.

Thanks all for the ideas, later...

Mike

On May 19, 12:57*pm, Mike Romain > wrote:
> Mike Romain wrote:
> > Steve Austin wrote:
> >> Nate Nagel wrote:
> >>> Scott Dorsey wrote:
> >>>> Mike Romain > wrote:
>
> >>>>> I guess the next dumb question from a backyard mechanic who
> >>>>> 'really, really' wants to drive 250 km 'tomorrow' on a holiday
> >>>>> Monday up here in Canada to get to a cottage for a few weeks
> >>>>> vacation with my wife would be can I hot wire the sucker to the
> >>>>> other coil HT post and get away with it? *LOL!
>
> >>>> Then you really WILL blow your muffler off.
> >>>> --scott
>
> >>> well... not if it is a waste spark ignition system and he connects
> >>> the wire to the other cylinder in that pair.
>
> >>> Keep in mind that this is assuming a whole lot of stuff about this
> >>> particular car that I don't know for sure.
>
> >>> nate
>
> >> Only one plug at a time will fire then. *I gotta agree with
> >> scott
>
> > Ok... *If each coil sends two sparks at once and one spark is 'wasted',
> > then why can't I make a new connection to the post to replace the one
> > that failed?
>
> > I would be 'basically' putting a T fitting on #6 plug wire to fire #3 on
> > the 'waste' spark. *Actually I think I will jumper the plug wire ends at
> > the coil under the boots with a spare chunk of plug wire trimmed at the
> > ends. *If it doesn't backfire or shoot sparks all over creation, then #3
> > should get the spark on it's compression stroke right?
>
> > Other than that I will just unplug that injector and drive easy. *It
> > 'did' make it down here the 250 km for our supply run running on 5
> > cylinders.... *I can find a coil at my destination tomorrow or sometime
> > in the next few weeks when I need the car again.
>
> > Mike
>
> Well folks I know for sure this engine runs just fine with the coil post
> for #6 cylinder going to the #3 spark plug because it was that way when
> I got it. *If anyone remembers, my firing order was seriously messed up
> but it ran nice. *The previous owner had fun with the waste spark firing
> order....
>
> Sooo... *I hotwired an old plug wire to the post under the boot for #6
> and just plugged it's end into the clip under the boot for the #3 plug
> and away it runs. *The miss is gone and my timing light show fire on
> both 3 and 6 no problem.
>
> Thanks all for the ideas, later...
>
> Mike- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I didn't know if it would actually work like that or not... I'd still
fix it right ASAP

nate

N8N wrote:
> On May 19, 12:57 pm, Mike Romain > wrote:
>> Mike Romain wrote:
>>> Steve Austin wrote:
>>>> Nate Nagel wrote:
>>>>> Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>>>>> Mike Romain > wrote:
>>>>>>> I guess the next dumb question from a backyard mechanic who
>>>>>>> 'really, really' wants to drive 250 km 'tomorrow' on a holiday
>>>>>>> Monday up here in Canada to get to a cottage for a few weeks
>>>>>>> vacation with my wife would be can I hot wire the sucker to the
>>>>>>> other coil HT post and get away with it? LOL!
>>>>>> Then you really WILL blow your muffler off.
>>>>>> --scott
>>>>> well... not if it is a waste spark ignition system and he connects
>>>>> the wire to the other cylinder in that pair.
>>>>> Keep in mind that this is assuming a whole lot of stuff about this
>>>>> particular car that I don't know for sure.
>>>>> nate
>>>> Only one plug at a time will fire then. I gotta agree with
>>>> scott
>>> Ok... If each coil sends two sparks at once and one spark is 'wasted',
>>> then why can't I make a new connection to the post to replace the one
>>> that failed?
>>> I would be 'basically' putting a T fitting on #6 plug wire to fire #3 on
>>> the 'waste' spark. Actually I think I will jumper the plug wire ends at
>>> the coil under the boots with a spare chunk of plug wire trimmed at the
>>> ends. If it doesn't backfire or shoot sparks all over creation, then #3
>>> should get the spark on it's compression stroke right?
>>> Other than that I will just unplug that injector and drive easy. It
>>> 'did' make it down here the 250 km for our supply run running on 5
>>> cylinders.... I can find a coil at my destination tomorrow or sometime
>>> in the next few weeks when I need the car again.
>>> Mike
>> Well folks I know for sure this engine runs just fine with the coil post
>> for #6 cylinder going to the #3 spark plug because it was that way when
>> I got it. If anyone remembers, my firing order was seriously messed up
>> but it ran nice. The previous owner had fun with the waste spark firing
>> order....
>>
>> Sooo... I hotwired an old plug wire to the post under the boot for #6
>> and just plugged it's end into the clip under the boot for the #3 plug
>> and away it runs. The miss is gone and my timing light show fire on
>> both 3 and 6 no problem.
>>
>> Thanks all for the ideas, later...
>>
>> Mike- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> I didn't know if it would actually work like that or not... I'd still
> fix it right ASAP
>
> nate

It will be OK BUT I would replace that coil pack ASAP. The extra load of
the second plug won't do it any good. The coil packs are basically two
coils wound with a common ground and two taps. What has happened is one
side has opened and caused the coil to fail.

--
Steve W.
Near Cooperstown, New York

Life is not like a box of chocolates
it's more like a jar of jalapenos-
what you do today could burn your ass tomorrow!

Steve Austin wrote:
> Steve W. wrote:
>> N8N wrote:
>>> On May 19, 12:57 pm, Mike Romain > wrote:
>>>> Mike Romain wrote:
>>>>> Steve Austin wrote:
>>>>>> Nate Nagel wrote:
>>>>>>> Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>>>>>>> Mike Romain > wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I guess the next dumb question from a backyard mechanic who
>>>>>>>>> 'really, really' wants to drive 250 km 'tomorrow' on a holiday
>>>>>>>>> Monday up here in Canada to get to a cottage for a few weeks
>>>>>>>>> vacation with my wife would be can I hot wire the sucker to the
>>>>>>>>> other coil HT post and get away with it? LOL!
>>>>>>>> Then you really WILL blow your muffler off.
>>>>>>>> --scott
>>>>>>> well... not if it is a waste spark ignition system and he connects
>>>>>>> the wire to the other cylinder in that pair.
>>>>>>> Keep in mind that this is assuming a whole lot of stuff about this
>>>>>>> particular car that I don't know for sure.
>>>>>>> nate
>>>>>> Only one plug at a time will fire then. I gotta agree with
>>>>>> scott
>>>>> Ok... If each coil sends two sparks at once and one spark is
>>>>> 'wasted',
>>>>> then why can't I make a new connection to the post to replace the one
>>>>> that failed?
>>>>> I would be 'basically' putting a T fitting on #6 plug wire to fire
>>>>> #3 on
>>>>> the 'waste' spark. Actually I think I will jumper the plug wire
>>>>> ends at
>>>>> the coil under the boots with a spare chunk of plug wire trimmed at
>>>>> the
>>>>> ends. If it doesn't backfire or shoot sparks all over creation,
>>>>> then #3
>>>>> should get the spark on it's compression stroke right?
>>>>> Other than that I will just unplug that injector and drive easy. It
>>>>> 'did' make it down here the 250 km for our supply run running on 5
>>>>> cylinders.... I can find a coil at my destination tomorrow or
>>>>> sometime
>>>>> in the next few weeks when I need the car again.
>>>>> Mike
>>>> Well folks I know for sure this engine runs just fine with the coil
>>>> post
>>>> for #6 cylinder going to the #3 spark plug because it was that way when
>>>> I got it. If anyone remembers, my firing order was seriously messed up
>>>> but it ran nice. The previous owner had fun with the waste spark
>>>> firing
>>>> order....
>>>>
>>>> Sooo... I hotwired an old plug wire to the post under the boot for #6
>>>> and just plugged it's end into the clip under the boot for the #3 plug
>>>> and away it runs. The miss is gone and my timing light show fire on
>>>> both 3 and 6 no problem.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks all for the ideas, later...
>>>>
>>>> Mike- Hide quoted text -
>>>>
>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>
>>> I didn't know if it would actually work like that or not... I'd still
>>> fix it right ASAP
>>>
>>> nate
>>
>> It will be OK BUT I would replace that coil pack ASAP. The extra load
>> of the second plug won't do it any good. The coil packs are basically
>> two coils wound with a common ground and two taps. What has happened
>> is one side has opened and caused the coil to fail.
>>
> The coil packs have no secondary ground. They fire in a loop thru both
> plugs and ground. One plug fires negative and the other positive. One
> of Mikes 3/6 coil towers must be grounded though -- through the icm. Not
> a pretty thought.

Our vacation got cut short/delayed, the place we were staying at had the
main building totally closed for a serious environmental mold clean up
with a dry ice blast job. Total zuit suit and respirator territory.
The washroom was 'supposed' to be OK, but mold got found there too so
the whole place is down for a week. Oh well, next week...

Well, it did 'kinda' work. It ran OK at low speeds but started missing
worse at speed under load so I stopped and just ran #6 cylinder normal
with the injector to #3 unplugged. It ran best that way.

I think the spark might have been leaking out under load, but it is moot
now, we got a new coil for the drive back and it purrs again with 32 mpg.

I do not understand the GM waste spark system well.

When I got this car, the plug wires were seriously mix up on the coils,
yet it ran beautifully and passed emissions with low numbers.

I did put new wires on and put them in the right order. It still runs
sweet.

If the coils alternated the positive and negative power to make a block
ground path for each spark, shouldn't one way run best?

Just curious because it might have even gotten a couple mpg 'better'
when the wires were reversed? Or does it just not matter and only one
power pulse comes through the harness to each coil so one cylinder fires
a 'positive' spark and the other a 'negative' direction spark.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
'New' frame in the works for '08. Some Canadian Bush Trip and Build
Photos: http://mikeromainjeeptrips.shutterfly.com

Steve Austin wrote:

> The coils fire from tower to tower. ...
> they fire in a loop, from one coil tower -
> thru the plug wire - thru the plug - thru the head - thru the other plug
> - thru the other coil wire - and back to the coil to the other tower ...

So you're saying that the plugs are in series? And the head/block
'floats' wrt to the secondary? That means that pulling the wire from one
plug would kill both cylinders. Are you sure about that?

In article >,
"M.M." > wrote:

> Steve Austin wrote:
>
> > The coils fire from tower to tower. ...
> > they fire in a loop, from one coil tower -
> > thru the plug wire - thru the plug - thru the head - thru the other plug
> > - thru the other coil wire - and back to the coil to the other tower ...
>
> So you're saying that the plugs are in series? And the head/block
> 'floats' wrt to the secondary? That means that pulling the wire from one
> plug would kill both cylinders. Are you sure about that?

You can kill both cylinders if you pull the correct wire, but not
necessarily either wire.

aarcuda69062 wrote:
> In article >,
> "M.M." > wrote:
>
>> Steve Austin wrote:
>>
>>> The coils fire from tower to tower. ...
>>> they fire in a loop, from one coil tower -
>>> thru the plug wire - thru the plug - thru the head - thru the other plug
>>> - thru the other coil wire - and back to the coil to the other tower ...
>> So you're saying that the plugs are in series? And the head/block
>> 'floats' wrt to the secondary? That means that pulling the wire from one
>> plug would kill both cylinders. Are you sure about that?
>
> You can kill both cylinders if you pull the correct wire, but not
> necessarily either wire.

I meant pulling either plug wire would kill both. If that's not the
case, then they're not wired as Steve said.

In article >,
"M.M." > wrote:

> aarcuda69062 wrote:
> > In article >,
> > "M.M." > wrote:
> >
> >> Steve Austin wrote:
> >>
> >>> The coils fire from tower to tower. ...
> >>> they fire in a loop, from one coil tower -
> >>> thru the plug wire - thru the plug - thru the head - thru the other plug
> >>> - thru the other coil wire - and back to the coil to the other tower ...
> >> So you're saying that the plugs are in series? And the head/block
> >> 'floats' wrt to the secondary? That means that pulling the wire from one
> >> plug would kill both cylinders. Are you sure about that?
> >
> > You can kill both cylinders if you pull the correct wire, but not
> > necessarily either wire.
>
> I meant pulling either plug wire would kill both. If that's not the
> case, then they're not wired as Steve said.

Steve's description was accurate.

My only exception to what he wrote is in regards to whether a DIS system
has the capability to detect power of waste firings...
Saturn has used such a system since the mid 90s.

aarcuda69062 wrote:
> In article >,
> "M.M." > wrote:
>
>> aarcuda69062 wrote:
>>> In article >,
>>> "M.M." > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Steve Austin wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The coils fire from tower to tower. ...
>>>>> they fire in a loop, from one coil tower -
>>>>> thru the plug wire - thru the plug - thru the head - thru the other plug
>>>>> - thru the other coil wire - and back to the coil to the other tower ...
>>>> So you're saying that the plugs are in series? And the head/block
>>>> 'floats' wrt to the secondary? That means that pulling the wire from one
>>>> plug would kill both cylinders. Are you sure about that?
>>> You can kill both cylinders if you pull the correct wire, but not
>>> necessarily either wire.
>> I meant pulling either plug wire would kill both. If that's not the
>> case, then they're not wired as Steve said.
>
> Steve's description was accurate.
>
> My only exception to what he wrote is in regards to whether a DIS system
> has the capability to detect power of waste firings...
> Saturn has used such a system since the mid 90s.

I still don't get it....

On mine, plug #3 had no spark period, yet the other tower on the same
coil, #6 was sparking just fine?

Then when I hooked 'both' #6 and #3 to post #6, I got spark showing at
both plugs... Post #3 was left open.

It did run worse like that though, under load....

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
'New' frame in the works for '08. Some Canadian Bush Trip and Build
Photos: http://mikeromainjeeptrips.shutterfly.com