Tires not holding air?

On Tue, 23 Aug 2011 19:28:25 -0700, jim beam > wrote:

>On 08/23/2011 05:54 PM, Tegger wrote:
>> "C. E. > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>
>>>
>>> If the tires had this problem from new, I'd agree porous wheels could
>>> be the problem, but I doubt four wheels developed similar poroisty
>>> after 10,000 miles of use. I just don't picture anything I've done
>>> with or to the car could increase the porousity of aluminum wheels
>>> (Ford OEM).
>>
>>
>>
>> Consider the other half of my "porous wheels"comment: Poor assembly-line
>> technique that results in rim leaks.
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> The valve stems are a possibility. Ford uses TPM sensors that
>>> incorporate replaceable rubber valve stems. The same sort of valve
>>> stems were used on two other Fords I've owned and never gave a
>>> problem. It is certainly possible that the stems are at fault, but it
>>> just seems unlikely that all four would fail at about the same time
>>> and lead to similar leage rates.
>>
>>
>>
>> Unless there's a design or assembly fault.
>>
>>
>>
>>> I suppose the stress of the trip to Florida could have affect the
>>> stems but I think it is more likely to be the tires.
>>>
>>> I am focusing on the tires becasue I wonder if the stress of the trip
>>> to Florida (hot temperatures, bumpy / lousy I-95 road surface,
>>> continuous driving for 9 hours in each direction, etc.) might have
>>> damaged the inner structure of all the tires
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Can't see that being an issue unless the tires were defective. Modern
>> tires are extremely tough, and are highly tolerant of very significant
>> abuse. Tires are old technology: All the bugs were worked out ages ago.
>
>theoretically, but manufacturing integrity is just as susceptible to
>"economies" as it ever was. thinning/omitting the air liner saves
>money, regardless of "old" or "new" technology.
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>> (and since I've never had Kumho tires before, I am suspious of them).
>>
>>
>>
>> Kumho and Hankook are excellent-quality tires. The Koreans have tires
>> down pat.
>
>label engineering and marketing. look at the tire walls for country of
>origin - most are made in china.
>
Correct - the Korean Kumho tires are decent to good. The chinese
decent to CRAP.
The experience I had with Hankook tires a few years ago soured me on
even their Korean tires. Apparently they have gotten better - the ones
I had experience with had "corners" on them instead of being round -
if you know what I mean.

I won't TOUCH a chinese tire. Perhaps Taiwanese, but never mainland
china - and I'm not partial to VietNamese or Philipino tires either.

> wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 23 Aug 2011 19:28:25 -0700, jim beam > wrote:
>
>>On 08/23/2011 05:54 PM, Tegger wrote:
>>> "C. E. > wrote in
>>> :
>>> Kumho and Hankook are excellent-quality tires. The Koreans have tires
>>> down pat.
>>
>>label engineering and marketing. look at the tire walls for country of
>>origin - most are made in china.
>>
> Correct - the Korean Kumho tires are decent to good. The chinese
> decent to CRAP.
> The experience I had with Hankook tires a few years ago soured me on
> even their Korean tires. Apparently they have gotten better - the ones
> I had experience with had "corners" on them instead of being round -
> if you know what I mean.
>
> I won't TOUCH a chinese tire. Perhaps Taiwanese, but never mainland
> china - and I'm not partial to VietNamese or Philipino tires either.

I have bought Humho and they have performed very well. Probably better
than some American brands. I had no complaints at all.

On Aug 23, 5:18*am, "C. E. White" > wrote:
> I have a strange tire problem......
>
> I have a 2011 Ford Fiesta, purchased new in late February of 2011. It is the
> SE Hatchback (not SFE) with Kumho Solus KH25 185/60-15 tires on alloy
> wheels. For the first 5 months I added air to the tires once (and I did
> check them regualrly). In late July, out of the blue, the low tire pressure
> warning light came on when I was on the way to work. I was afraid I had a
> tire going down, but the car drove normally so I continued on to work. As
> soon as I got to work I looked at the tires and all appeared normal. When I
> got home and checked, the pressure in all four tires was in the mid-20s.
> Weird. I reinflated all the tires to 35 psi. All seemed fine for the next 3
> weeks or so, until yesterday. The low tire pressure light illuminated on the
> way to work again. As before when I looked, the tires seemed fine. As
> before, when I checked the pressure, 3 of the 4 were in the mid 20s, one was
> in the low 20s. I reinflated the tires to 35 again. I've had a lot of cars
> and a lot of tires, and never before have I had a set of tires (four tires,
> not just one) lose 10 pounds of pressure in less than a month.
>
> Any thoughts? My only thought is that I somehow damaged the tires on a mid
> July trip to Florida. We drove I-95 to South Florida in mid July. The trips
> were quick (600 miles, <10 hours including stops). Is it possible I somehow
> damage the tire structures in such a way that all four are now uniformly
> (more or less) leaking air at a much higher rate than normal? Parts of I-95
> are really rough, it was really hot, and the trip to Florida and back was
> fairly relentless.
>
> Ed

Maybe you have a practical joker?

On 8/23/2011 8:18 AM, C. E. White wrote:
> I have a strange tire problem......
>
> I have a 2011 Ford Fiesta, purchased new in late February of 2011. It is the
> SE Hatchback (not SFE) with Kumho Solus KH25 185/60-15 tires on alloy
> wheels. For the first 5 months I added air to the tires once (and I did
> check them regualrly). In late July, out of the blue, the low tire pressure
> warning light came on when I was on the way to work. I was afraid I had a
> tire going down, but the car drove normally so I continued on to work. As
> soon as I got to work I looked at the tires and all appeared normal. When I
> got home and checked, the pressure in all four tires was in the mid-20s.
> Weird. I reinflated all the tires to 35 psi. All seemed fine for the next 3
> weeks or so, until yesterday. The low tire pressure light illuminated on the
> way to work again. As before when I looked, the tires seemed fine. As
> before, when I checked the pressure, 3 of the 4 were in the mid 20s, one was
> in the low 20s. I reinflated the tires to 35 again. I've had a lot of cars
> and a lot of tires, and never before have I had a set of tires (four tires,
> not just one) lose 10 pounds of pressure in less than a month.
>
> Any thoughts? My only thought is that I somehow damaged the tires on a mid
> July trip to Florida. We drove I-95 to South Florida in mid July. The trips
> were quick (600 miles,<10 hours including stops). Is it possible I somehow
> damage the tire structures in such a way that all four are now uniformly
> (more or less) leaking air at a much higher rate than normal? Parts of I-95
> are really rough, it was really hot, and the trip to Florida and back was
> fairly relentless.
>
> Ed
>
>

I'd bet the bead seals are leaking. You probably cooked off the factory
sealer with your banzai road trip keeping the tires superheated so long.
Have a good tire shop knock down all four, clean them and remount with
the correct high-quality goop painted on the beads. I've had the same
problem with several sets of cast aluminum wheels over the years. I'll
never pay extra for fancy wheels, but since from my position on the food
chain I can only buy used, I seldom get a choice.

--
aem sends...

wrote in
:


>>
> Correct - the Korean Kumho tires are decent to good. The chinese
> decent to CRAP.



The Red Chinese produce quality work provided the West (or a free country
like South Korea) does their design and QC for them.



> The experience I had with Hankook tires a few years ago soured me on
> even their Korean tires.



I've had Hankooks for the last several years. They have been, and remain,
excellent.

Of course, mine have been competently mounted, something you can't say for
95% of tires out there...



> Apparently they have gotten better - the ones
> I had experience with had "corners" on them instead of being round -
> if you know what I mean.



Poor mounting technique. So distressingly common. It wasn't the tires,
believe me.


>
> I won't TOUCH a chinese tire. Perhaps Taiwanese, but never mainland
> china - and I'm not partial to VietNamese or Philipino tires either.
>


If they're being sold under a major brand, they're fine. The point of
branding is to assure your clients that the final product is good,
regardless of where made.

Tires, and people's rate of satisfaction with them, are 100% tied to
competent mounting. But, unfortunately, competent mounting is extremely
rare.

Few tires are bad, but most tires are badly mounted. And the tires get
blamed.



--
Tegger

On 08/24/2011 05:17 PM, Tegger wrote:
> wrote in
> :
>
>
>>>
>> Correct - the Korean Kumho tires are decent to good. The chinese
>> decent to CRAP.
>
>
>
> The Red Chinese produce quality work provided the West (or a free country
> like South Korea) does their design and QC for them.
>
>
>
>> The experience I had with Hankook tires a few years ago soured me on
>> even their Korean tires.
>
>
>
> I've had Hankooks for the last several years. They have been, and remain,
> excellent.
>
> Of course, mine have been competently mounted, something you can't say for
> 95% of tires out there...
>
>
>
>> Apparently they have gotten better - the ones
>> I had experience with had "corners" on them instead of being round -
>> if you know what I mean.
>
>
>
> Poor mounting technique. So distressingly common. It wasn't the tires,
> believe me.
>
>
>>
>> I won't TOUCH a chinese tire. Perhaps Taiwanese, but never mainland
>> china - and I'm not partial to VietNamese or Philipino tires either.
>>
>
>
> If they're being sold under a major brand, they're fine. The point of
> branding is to assure your clients that the final product is good,
> regardless of where made.
>
> Tires, and people's rate of satisfaction with them, are 100% tied to
> competent mounting. But, unfortunately, competent mounting is extremely
> rare.
>
> Few tires are bad, but most tires are badly mounted. And the tires get
> blamed.
>
>
>

i know you don't like people disagreeing with you dude, but i have to
take issue on this. tire quality is very much at issue here, and it
can't be solved by "mounting".

example: when a tire casing is made, the fibers used have to be of
sufficient quality, laid right, and with even tension. same for the
tread bands - the circumferential nylon and steel layers. now we come
to the rubbers - these are obviously critical. incorrectly formulated,
poorly mixed, incorrectly applied and inadequately vulcanized, these,
just like all the other individual components, are critical quality
concerns. iow, there are many different components and processes that
can get screwed up by poor material quality assembled by unskilled labor
and inexperience.

but even all those don't hold a candle to the #1 cause of chinese
product problems: corner cutting. if a company is outsourcing to china,
they're doing so for economic reasons, not technical. and they want to
minimize costs. so how does a chinese manufacturer manage to produce
something for seemingly the same cost or even /less/ than the open
market cost of materials and energy input? cut corners and reduce those
input costs that nobody else dare do! because let's face it - are you
/really/ going to try to file a lawsuit against a chinese contractor in
a chinese court of law? if you're entertaining the idea that you could,
you'd better see a psychiatrist for the delusional fantasies you're
experiencing.

bottom line: don't buy chinese tires. ever since the usa started to
allow chinese tire imports, [and also relax the rules on the tire
quality that you can have on a big rig's trailer - because chinese tires
couldn't meet quality standards any other way] our freeways have been
strewn with outrageous quantities of blown tire debris. it's an
absolute scandal. do /you/ want to be hit with 5lb, 10lb or even 30lb
chunks of tire casing from these things as they disintegrate? i had one
of my door mirrors knocked off by one recently. i'm lucky it didn't
come through my windshield or hit my elbow that happened to be in my
open window. [big thick chunks of rubber like that don't bounce btw -
they're like chunks of flying concrete.]


--
nomina rutrum rutrum

jim beam > wrote in
t:


>
> i know you don't like people disagreeing with you dude,




Who said that? Disagree all you want. There's nothing I can do either way.



> but i have to
> take issue on this. tire quality is very much at issue here, and it
> can't be solved by "mounting".



It can, and it does. I have abundant personal experience with this, as I've
stated and detailed numerous times.

Most tires judged as defective actually suffer from bad mounting technique.
Most wheels judged as "bent" are actually within spec, but are declared
"bent" by tire monkeys who are stumped as to why they can't make vibrations
go away.

<snip>

There's nothing at all wrong with Chinese product sold under major brand-
names.


--
Tegger

On Aug 24, 8:17*pm, Tegger > wrote:
> wrote :
>
>
>
> > Correct - the Korean Kumho tires are decent to good. The chinese
> > decent to CRAP.
>
> The Red Chinese produce quality work provided the West (or a free country
> like South Korea) does their design and QC for them.
>
> > The experience I had with Hankook tires a few years ago soured me on
> > even their Korean tires.
>
> I've had Hankooks for the last several years. They have been, and remain,
> excellent.
>
> Of course, mine have been competently mounted, something you can't say for
> 95% of tires out there...

Damn straight. It's a rare shop that knows what the red and yellow
dots mean. I know that in practice it likely doesn't matter in 90+
percent of installations, but one would think that professional pride
would involve "doing it right."

nate

"N8N" > wrote in message
...
On Aug 24, 8:17 pm, Tegger > wrote:

> Damn straight. It's a rare shop that knows what the red and yellow
> dots mean. I know that in practice it likely doesn't matter in 90+
> percent of installations, but one would think that professional pride
> would involve "doing it right."

How many shops pay the guy mounting tires more than minimum wage? Do you
think you can keep good people and not pay them?

My son just quit a minimum wage job at Jiffy Lube because he felt he was the
only one at that store that knew what he was doing and was willing to
actually do it - so he was the one they kept busy, while the other minimum
wage drones watched.

Ed

On 08/24/2011 11:37 PM, Tegger wrote:
> jim > wrote in
> t:
>
>
>>
>> i know you don't like people disagreeing with you dude,
>
>
>
>
> Who said that? Disagree all you want. There's nothing I can do either way.
>
>
>
>> but i have to
>> take issue on this. tire quality is very much at issue here, and it
>> can't be solved by "mounting".
>
>
>
> It can, and it does. I have abundant personal experience with this, as I've
> stated and detailed numerous times.
>
> Most tires judged as defective actually suffer from bad mounting technique.
> Most wheels judged as "bent" are actually within spec, but are declared
> "bent" by tire monkeys who are stumped as to why they can't make vibrations
> go away.

then you've been outstandingly lucky and have not had to witness abysmal
tire quality with visibly lumpy side walls, visibly lumpy treads, rubber
cracking and spalling, etc.


>
> <snip>
>
> There's nothing at all wrong with Chinese product sold under major brand-
> names.

sub-standard materials, unskilled labor and corner cutting affect
quality. that's just fact. and you don't manufacture in china so you
can save on labor but spend more on materials quality, you do it so you
can cut costs all across the board. that's just fact too.


--
nomina rutrum rutrum