Too goofy?

With all the problems we have discussed recently about cooling systems, I
would like to
revisit a question that, I believe, was posted some time ago:

Basically, why could not a system be developed that used an
electromechanical
clutch coupled to the water pump?

You might not need a thermostat at all, as no water flow would occur at
startup. Water
flow would be governed entirely by the action of the water pump.

Thermosiphon techniques could allow the system to work without application
of the
water pump when heat generation is low.

When the heat generation increases beyond the capacity of the thermosiphon,
the clutch
could engage, activating the water pump for extra circulation.

Benefits: maybe less dependence upon a thermostat and potentially less
wasted energy
in the water pump (meaning somewhat better fuel efficiency.) The radiator
fan system could be
activated as and if needed.

Detriments: The system would have to be designed to optimize the principle,
and the electromechanical
clutch would cost a bit of money. Maybe such a system would be too costly
and would

The thermostat serves pupose in the cooling system other than just a
temperature regulator...it also regulates flow and provides needed
turbulence by presenting an obstacle in the flow of the coolant that
churns up the coolant as it passes through...without that turbulence
and flow control, the coolant enters the radiator in a near laminar
flow, and the result is that the outside of the flow that is in contact
with the tubes will cool, but the interior volume will not, and upon
re-entering the motor will continue to superheat...

An engine will begin to overheat if run at higher RPMs for extended
periods without a thermostat in place...and will not be able to quickly
warm itself on start -up as well, with unregulated flow to the
radiator...


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Anyway...your ideas are not crazy, just have some flaws and kinda amount
to re-inventing the wheel...current systems work well and the parts are
durable, no reason to change anything...


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"jeffcoslacker" > wrote in message
...

> An engine will begin to overheat if run at higher RPMs for extended
> periods without a thermostat in place...and will not be able to quickly
> warm itself on start -up as well, with unregulated flow to the
> radiator...

Your comments are well appreciated.

The turbulence is provided in the radiator, not by the thermostat. The old
story that the
water circulates too quickly to cool is pure bull****. Does not hold water.

But still, I know that there are many problems. Problems are made to be
solved.

Thanks again.

> "jeffcoslacker" > wrote in
> message
> ...
>
> > An engine will begin to overheat if run at higher RPMs for extended
> > periods without a thermostat in place...and will not be able to
> quickly
> > warm itself on start -up as well, with unregulated flow to the
> > radiator...
>
> Your comments are well appreciated.
>
> The turbulence is provided in the radiator, not by the thermostat. The
> old
> story that the
> water circulates too quickly to cool is pure bull****. Does not hold
> water.
>
> But still, I know that there are many problems. Problems are made to be
> solved.
>
> Thanks again.

I didn't say it circulates too fast to cool...and the turbulence going
IN to the radiator is what I was referring to. Just had this same
conversation with another one who thought they understood all the
dynamics of a cooling system.

Familiar with DNB?

Racing engines that don't use a thermostat still will use a reducer in
the water outlet. Know why?


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"jeffcoslacker" > wrote in message
...
>
> The thermostat serves pupose in the cooling system other than just a
> temperature regulator...it also regulates flow and provides needed
> turbulence by presenting an obstacle in the flow of the coolant that
> churns up the coolant as it passes through...without that turbulence
> and flow control, the coolant enters the radiator in a near laminar
> flow, and the result is that the outside of the flow that is in contact
> with the tubes will cool, but the interior volume will not, and upon
> re-entering the motor will continue to superheat...
>
> An engine will begin to overheat if run at higher RPMs for extended
> periods without a thermostat in place...and will not be able to quickly
> warm itself on start -up as well, with unregulated flow to the
> radiator...
>
>
> --
> jeffcoslacker
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> jeffcoslacker's Profile:
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...?userid=219638
> View this thread:
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...d.php?t=619116
>
> http://www.automotiveforums.com
>

A dwarf who clearly couldn't differentiate between either
enthalpy and entropy or a Reynolds Number and Reynolds
Aluminum, provides a supercilious and didactic, yet totally
erroneous "lecture" on Thermodynamics and Fluid Mechanics.

Too precious, not to mention thoroughly hilarious.

"jeffcoslacker" > wrote in message
...

> Racing engines that don't use a thermostat still will use a reducer in
> the water outlet. Know why?
>
Yes, I am familiar with this. But it has nothing to do with the
turbulence in
the radiator.

On Wed, 13 Sep 2006 17:13:46 -0700, jeffcoslacker
> wrote:

>
>> "jeffcoslacker" > wrote in
>> message
>> ...
>>
>> > An engine will begin to overheat if run at higher RPMs for extended
>> > periods without a thermostat in place...and will not be able to
>> quickly
>> > warm itself on start -up as well, with unregulated flow to the
>> > radiator...
>>
>> Your comments are well appreciated.
>>
>> The turbulence is provided in the radiator, not by the thermostat. The
>> old
>> story that the
>> water circulates too quickly to cool is pure bull****. Does not hold
>> water.
>>
>> But still, I know that there are many problems. Problems are made to be
>> solved.
>>
>> Thanks again.
>
>I didn't say it circulates too fast to cool...and the turbulence going
>IN to the radiator is what I was referring to. Just had this same
>conversation with another one who thought they understood all the
>dynamics of a cooling system.
>
>Familiar with DNB?
>
>Racing engines that don't use a thermostat still will use a reducer in
>the water outlet. Know why?

I do not use a reducer in my racecar. It runs cooler with no
thermostat, no reducer. In early spring I use a thermostat, but I
take it out when I need maximum cooling.

Don
www.donsautomotive.com

Don wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Sep 2006 17:13:46 -0700, jeffcoslacker
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >> "jeffcoslacker" > wrote in
> >> message
> >> ...
> >>
> >> > An engine will begin to overheat if run at higher RPMs for extended
> >> > periods without a thermostat in place...and will not be able to
> >> quickly
> >> > warm itself on start -up as well, with unregulated flow to the
> >> > radiator...
> >>
> >> Your comments are well appreciated.
> >>
> >> The turbulence is provided in the radiator, not by the thermostat. The
> >> old
> >> story that the
> >> water circulates too quickly to cool is pure bull****. Does not hold
> >> water.
> >>
> >> But still, I know that there are many problems. Problems are made to be
> >> solved.
> >>
> >> Thanks again.
> >
> >I didn't say it circulates too fast to cool...and the turbulence going
> >IN to the radiator is what I was referring to. Just had this same
> >conversation with another one who thought they understood all the
> >dynamics of a cooling system.
> >
> >Familiar with DNB?
> >
> >Racing engines that don't use a thermostat still will use a reducer in
> >the water outlet. Know why?
>
> I do not use a reducer in my racecar. It runs cooler with no
> thermostat, no reducer. In early spring I use a thermostat, but I
> take it out when I need maximum cooling.

Same here. I run with nutin in the thermostat housing. I put reducers
in to heat it up when its 65 degrees or less outside. Ifin it don't run
160 or so with nutin in it, you got other problems. Taking a thermostat
out makes an engine "not reach operating temperture". I've run into a
few exceptions to the rule, but 95% of the time, an engine will run
cooler with the thermostat out! Simple example: thermostat out or stuck
open, got heat, defroster melt the ice off the windshield?!?!

>
> Don
> www.donsautomotive.com

Don wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Sep 2006 17:13:46 -0700, jeffcoslacker
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >> "jeffcoslacker" > wrote in
> >> message
> >> ...
> >>
> >> > An engine will begin to overheat if run at higher RPMs for extended
> >> > periods without a thermostat in place...and will not be able to
> >> quickly
> >> > warm itself on start -up as well, with unregulated flow to the
> >> > radiator...
> >>
> >> Your comments are well appreciated.
> >>
> >> The turbulence is provided in the radiator, not by the thermostat. The
> >> old
> >> story that the
> >> water circulates too quickly to cool is pure bull****. Does not hold
> >> water.
> >>
> >> But still, I know that there are many problems. Problems are made to be
> >> solved.
> >>
> >> Thanks again.
> >
> >I didn't say it circulates too fast to cool...and the turbulence going
> >IN to the radiator is what I was referring to. Just had this same
> >conversation with another one who thought they understood all the
> >dynamics of a cooling system.
> >
> >Familiar with DNB?
> >
> >Racing engines that don't use a thermostat still will use a reducer in
> >the water outlet. Know why?
>
> I do not use a reducer in my racecar. It runs cooler with no
> thermostat, no reducer. In early spring I use a thermostat, but I
> take it out when I need maximum cooling.

Same here. I run with nutin in the thermostat housing. I put reducers
in to heat it up when its 65 degrees or less outside. Ifin it don't run
160 or so with nutin in it, you got other problems. Taking a thermostat
out makes an engine "not reach operating temperture". I've run into a
few exceptions to the rule, but 95% of the time, an engine will run
cooler with the thermostat out! Simple example: thermostat out or stuck
open, got heat, defroster melt the ice off the windshield?!?!

>
> Don
> www.donsautomotive.com