Stalling, dying, FIXED

Hey all. Just an FYI for all of those kind enough to help diagnose my dead
Bronco.

I got my it back from Ford today. It turned out to be the carb... pretty
much shot. I got the Ford boys to rebuild it as opposed to getting a
rebuilt one. Well, it runs fantastic with a lot more power.

BUT, they charged me for the inspection ($50) and the infamous BS "shop
supplies" ($36). My ass hurts. I'm going to fight both of these cause
they're crap. If I get one back, I'll consider myself lucky.

But again, it runs great! Smooth idle, no lag, and more power. Thanks for
all the help guys!

Brad

Brad.... I'm sure you are referring to a charge for diagnostics rather than
"inspection". Time for a little lesson in economics....

Y'see, my wife and kid really seem to like it when I bring home a paycheck.
Now, I could do diagnostics for free and watch half the time I spend at work
disappear over the horizon as motorists either do the work themselves or
find some cheap-ass shop (that couldn't diagnose their way ou of the
bathroom) fix it with antiquated equipment and, often, questionable
techniques.

Diagnosis is a service... this service is NOT included in the flat rate
times quoted in any manual. Without the diagnostic process, I might be left
throwing money at your car needlessly.

Since the diagnostic process is a very real service, I am left to ponder why
we leave a tip for the waitress to do her job but we refuse to pay a
mechanic to do his.

Shop supplies has always been that hazy area. Bear in mind, though, that if
I have to spend extra time to itemize each rag, each wrap tie and each
squirt of this or that, that time will be added to the work order. Without
the shop supply charge, instead of having me spread a coat of gasket shellac
or a bead of silicon or a squirt of weasel-****.... you would likely be
charged for a whole container of gasket shellac, a whole tube of silicone or
a whole spray bomb of weasel-****. Granted, some shops get carried away with
shop supply charges. But, if it's a good shop that gives the desired result,
it's because the bill is bigger than "ElCheapo Auto Repair" (you know, the
guys that fix your car 8 times and it comes back worse each time?). I am
well recompensed - I have a very high customer satisfaction index, a very
low repeat repair index, and a very high fixed right the first time
status... this is tempered with an eye to customer running costs AND the
need to ensure that I haven't missed something that will turn the repair
into a disappointment.

An exchange from long ago..... "How much to perform this repair to my
car?" - "About $150." - "The man down the street only wants $95." - "Well,
make sure he uses good quality parts and stands behind his warranty." - "Oh,
you misunderstand...... I want YOU to do the job." - "Oh... I
understand..... and I want $150.". The good guys are worth more than the bad
guys - ain't gonna get much simpler than that.

It's all very simple.... back when I had my own shop, there were many
instances that a stranded motorist would get all out of shape because I had
the balls to ask for money for a piece of wire..... like...... I'm supposed
to buy this stuff by the roll so I can give it away by the foot????

Anyway, I'm glad that your truck " runs fantastic with a lot more
power"...... too bad that doesn't seem to mean much when I know of a lot of
shops that might not be able to give you that.

Jim Warman

A tech who can give customer references - and proud of it.


"Brad and Mia" > wrote in message
news:ShOvd.492739$Pl.136744@pd7tw1no...
> Hey all. Just an FYI for all of those kind enough to help diagnose my
> dead Bronco.
>
> I got my it back from Ford today. It turned out to be the carb... pretty
> much shot. I got the Ford boys to rebuild it as opposed to getting a
> rebuilt one. Well, it runs fantastic with a lot more power.
>
> BUT, they charged me for the inspection ($50) and the infamous BS "shop
> supplies" ($36). My ass hurts. I'm going to fight both of these cause
> they're crap. If I get one back, I'll consider myself lucky.
>
> But again, it runs great! Smooth idle, no lag, and more power. Thanks
> for all the help guys!
>
> Brad
>

Well, Brad... while I see where you're coming from.. and I get pretty
steamed too at some prices.. I managed to find a very good shop a couple
years back that I've ALWAYS gone to for car work (precision tune).. they
charge ME no labor usually, but the going rate is $65/hr for both labor &
diagnostic. And they do GOOD work... at least on par with dealership &
sometimes better. The reason they charge ME nothing though for stuff other
than parts is because I've built every computer they have in the building
:P. But when I did pay for it.. I did so happily b/c I knew that I was
paying for their knowledge & experience.. and they always got it done right
the first time.

-Mike

--
A happy kid behind the wheel of a 98 Mustang GT
Cold air intake
FRPP 3.73 gears
Steeda Tri-Ax Shifter
Flowmaster 40 Series mufflers (self-installed woohoo)
Hi-speed fan switch
255/60R-15 rear tires
Subframe connectors


"Brad and Mia" > wrote in message
news:_1Svd.514950$nl.367832@pd7tw3no...
> Jim,
>
> You've given me advice in the past, (and I appreciate it) but this stuff
is
> crap.
>
> Yes, my truck runs great! That's why I pay $100/hour to get it fixed at
> Ford (Advantage in Calgary). A doctor, btw, get's $27.50 for a 15 minute
> visit. Do the math here...
>
> Dealerships are ripoffs. BUT, I go there, as do many others, because we
> assume, the job will be done right. (I paid $600 once for an alternator
and
> belt, installed in my Bronco - I had no choice, but c'mon....) Yet, truth
> be told, I can't think of a time when I haven't spent a week's pay on a
> day's auto work that it has let me down.
>
> That said, what does a mechanic make? $30/hour? $40? Where does the
other
> $60 go? That's what I am fighting. What a bunch of BS!
>
> Everytime I have a repair I hit up the mechanic for under the table work.
I
> pay him $50, and that is $75/hour for him after taxes. I save $50/hour and
> the mechanic makes 50% more money. The only one who loses is the
> dealership - they don't get my $60/hour. That is what ****es me off. The
> dealers are screwing me and the mechanic! That is why I always try to get
> the mechanic to do the work on the side. 50% of the time, he agrees. The
> other 50% of the time, I pay $35 for 20 cents worth of grease.
>
> I'm not saying charging for a disagonstic is wrong.... but if you get it
> fixed there, at $100/hour, you'd think they cut you a deal....
>
> And I ALWAYS get my Bronco (and Mustang(s)) serviced at Ford, even though
> the cost is brutal. That's because the work is alway done right, and if
> there ever is a problem, they stand behind it. But ****, cut your good
> customers a deal.... we keep coming back at $100/hour and it would be
nice
> to get just a little of a break now and then.
>
> That's it...
>
> Brad
>
>
>
> "Jim Warman" > wrote in message
> news:jLPvd.36183$Ya4.30500@edtnps84...
> > Brad.... I'm sure you are referring to a charge for diagnostics rather
> > than "inspection". Time for a little lesson in economics....
> >
> > Y'see, my wife and kid really seem to like it when I bring home a
> > paycheck. Now, I could do diagnostics for free and watch half the time I
> > spend at work disappear over the horizon as motorists either do the work
> > themselves or find some cheap-ass shop (that couldn't diagnose their way
> > ou of the bathroom) fix it with antiquated equipment and, often,
> > questionable techniques.
> >
> > Diagnosis is a service... this service is NOT included in the flat rate
> > times quoted in any manual. Without the diagnostic process, I might be
> > left throwing money at your car needlessly.
> >
> > Since the diagnostic process is a very real service, I am left to ponder
> > why we leave a tip for the waitress to do her job but we refuse to pay a
> > mechanic to do his.
> >
> > Shop supplies has always been that hazy area. Bear in mind, though, that
> > if I have to spend extra time to itemize each rag, each wrap tie and
each
> > squirt of this or that, that time will be added to the work order.
Without
> > the shop supply charge, instead of having me spread a coat of gasket
> > shellac or a bead of silicon or a squirt of weasel-****.... you would
> > likely be charged for a whole container of gasket shellac, a whole tube
of
> > silicone or a whole spray bomb of weasel-****. Granted, some shops get
> > carried away with shop supply charges. But, if it's a good shop that
gives
> > the desired result, it's because the bill is bigger than "ElCheapo Auto
> > Repair" (you know, the guys that fix your car 8 times and it comes back
> > worse each time?). I am well recompensed - I have a very high customer
> > satisfaction index, a very low repeat repair index, and a very high
fixed
> > right the first time status... this is tempered with an eye to customer
> > running costs AND the need to ensure that I haven't missed something
that
> > will turn the repair into a disappointment.
> >
> > An exchange from long ago..... "How much to perform this repair to my
> > car?" - "About $150." - "The man down the street only wants $95." -
"Well,
> > make sure he uses good quality parts and stands behind his warranty." -
> > "Oh, you misunderstand...... I want YOU to do the job." - "Oh... I
> > understand..... and I want $150.". The good guys are worth more than the
> > bad guys - ain't gonna get much simpler than that.
> >
> > It's all very simple.... back when I had my own shop, there were many
> > instances that a stranded motorist would get all out of shape because I
> > had the balls to ask for money for a piece of wire..... like...... I'm
> > supposed to buy this stuff by the roll so I can give it away by the
> > foot????
> >
> > Anyway, I'm glad that your truck " runs fantastic with a lot more
> > power"...... too bad that doesn't seem to mean much when I know of a lot
> > of shops that might not be able to give you that.
> >
> > Jim Warman
> >
> > A tech who can give customer references - and proud of it.
> >
> >
> > "Brad and Mia" > wrote in message
> > news:ShOvd.492739$Pl.136744@pd7tw1no...
> >> Hey all. Just an FYI for all of those kind enough to help diagnose my
> >> dead Bronco.
> >>
> >> I got my it back from Ford today. It turned out to be the carb...
> >> pretty much shot. I got the Ford boys to rebuild it as opposed to
> >> getting a rebuilt one. Well, it runs fantastic with a lot more power.
> >>
> >> BUT, they charged me for the inspection ($50) and the infamous BS "shop
> >> supplies" ($36). My ass hurts. I'm going to fight both of these cause
> >> they're crap. If I get one back, I'll consider myself lucky.
> >>
> >> But again, it runs great! Smooth idle, no lag, and more power. Thanks
> >> for all the help guys!
> >>
> >> Brad
> >>
> >
> >
>
>

Brad... Jim is right, you are wrong.... you pay the Doc 100/hr and if his
diagnosis is wrong, you come back in and pay another 100.. but the mechanic
is going to cut you a break because the original problem wasnt fixed (yes , I
know that some try not to, but that's incidental)

The "diagnosis" charge is the one element that you have a leg to stand on...
I would think that they would waive it if you had the work done there, but
there was PROBABLY a decision reached on shop income/profit analysis and they
decided to keep the charge in there to make the bottom-line difference rather
that raising labor rates.

And your anecdote about the belt and alternator points to the need for an
enthusiast to learn to do the simple stuff himself.

In fact you had the resources to actually replace the carb with help from
this group and you opted to take the "satisfaction guaranteed" route.. all
well and good; because the dealer service needs these simple jobs to keep
techs from burning out.
I guarantee that if your income was "job/charged" you would understand this.

Kwicherbitchin!



Brad and Mia opined in news:_1Svd.514950$nl.367832@pd7tw3no:

> Jim,
>
> You've given me advice in the past, (and I appreciate it) but this stuff
> is crap.
>
> Yes, my truck runs great! That's why I pay $100/hour to get it fixed at
> Ford (Advantage in Calgary). A doctor, btw, get's $27.50 for a 15
> minute visit. Do the math here...
>

alwyas the dealer or the shop screwing the customer and the mecahnic. Try
paying for 5000 square feet of shop space in a properly zoned area. then get
garage owners insurance, then pay the light and pwoer company for heavy
service for compressors,lifts, welders ect. Then explain to customers every
day that their care isn't finsihed because one of the $25.00 mecahnics took
off early for a hangover and to go fishing or whatever. Then pay to have the
trash hauled away after the job, try to pay christmas bonus, and feed a
family and keep your own car on the road. Then add-in employee benifits
which coast upwards of 40% of the salary and garage/reapir owners aren't
making a fortune. Most of the dealerships i have worked at over the past 25
years, the repair shop is a break even part of the business and is there to
support the new car sales end,(who would buy a car from a dealer without a
shop??)
> You've given me advice in the past, (and I appreciate it) but this stuff
> is crap.
>
> Yes, my truck runs great! That's why I pay $100/hour to get it fixed at
> Ford (Advantage in Calgary). A doctor, btw, get's $27.50 for a 15 minute
> visit. Do the math here...
>
> Dealerships are ripoffs. BUT, I go there, as do many others, because we
> assume, the job will be done right. (I paid $600 once for an alternator
> and belt, installed in my Bronco - I had no choice, but c'mon....) Yet,
> truth be told, I can't think of a time when I haven't spent a week's pay
> on a day's auto work that it has let me down.
>
> That said, what does a mechanic make? $30/hour? $40? Where does the
> other $60 go? That's what I am fighting. What a bunch of BS!
>
> Everytime I have a repair I hit up the mechanic for under the table work.
> I pay him $50, and that is $75/hour for him after taxes. I save $50/hour
> and the mechanic makes 50% more money. The only one who loses is the
> dealership - they don't get my $60/hour. That is what ****es me off. The
> dealers are screwing me and the mechanic! That is why I always try to get
> the mechanic to do the work on the side. 50% of the time, he agrees. The
> other 50% of the time, I pay $35 for 20 cents worth of grease.
>
> I'm not saying charging for a disagonstic is wrong.... but if you get it
> fixed there, at $100/hour, you'd think they cut you a deal....
>
> And I ALWAYS get my Bronco (and Mustang(s)) serviced at Ford, even though
> the cost is brutal. That's because the work is alway done right, and if
> there ever is a problem, they stand behind it. But ****, cut your good
> customers a deal.... we keep coming back at $100/hour and it would be
> nice to get just a little of a break now and then.
>
> That's it...
>
> Brad
>
>
>
> "Jim Warman" > wrote in message
> news:jLPvd.36183$Ya4.30500@edtnps84...
>> Brad.... I'm sure you are referring to a charge for diagnostics rather
>> than "inspection". Time for a little lesson in economics....
>>
>> Y'see, my wife and kid really seem to like it when I bring home a
>> paycheck. Now, I could do diagnostics for free and watch half the time I
>> spend at work disappear over the horizon as motorists either do the work
>> themselves or find some cheap-ass shop (that couldn't diagnose their way
>> ou of the bathroom) fix it with antiquated equipment and, often,
>> questionable techniques.
>>
>> Diagnosis is a service... this service is NOT included in the flat rate
>> times quoted in any manual. Without the diagnostic process, I might be
>> left throwing money at your car needlessly.
>>
>> Since the diagnostic process is a very real service, I am left to ponder
>> why we leave a tip for the waitress to do her job but we refuse to pay a
>> mechanic to do his.
>>
>> Shop supplies has always been that hazy area. Bear in mind, though, that
>> if I have to spend extra time to itemize each rag, each wrap tie and each
>> squirt of this or that, that time will be added to the work order.
>> Without the shop supply charge, instead of having me spread a coat of
>> gasket shellac or a bead of silicon or a squirt of weasel-****.... you
>> would likely be charged for a whole container of gasket shellac, a whole
>> tube of silicone or a whole spray bomb of weasel-****. Granted, some
>> shops get carried away with shop supply charges. But, if it's a good shop
>> that gives the desired result, it's because the bill is bigger than
>> "ElCheapo Auto Repair" (you know, the guys that fix your car 8 times and
>> it comes back worse each time?). I am well recompensed - I have a very
>> high customer satisfaction index, a very low repeat repair index, and a
>> very high fixed right the first time status... this is tempered with an
>> eye to customer running costs AND the need to ensure that I haven't
>> missed something that will turn the repair into a disappointment.
>>
>> An exchange from long ago..... "How much to perform this repair to my
>> car?" - "About $150." - "The man down the street only wants $95." -
>> "Well, make sure he uses good quality parts and stands behind his
>> warranty." - "Oh, you misunderstand...... I want YOU to do the job." -
>> "Oh... I understand..... and I want $150.". The good guys are worth more
>> than the bad guys - ain't gonna get much simpler than that.
>>
>> It's all very simple.... back when I had my own shop, there were many
>> instances that a stranded motorist would get all out of shape because I
>> had the balls to ask for money for a piece of wire..... like...... I'm
>> supposed to buy this stuff by the roll so I can give it away by the
>> foot????
>>
>> Anyway, I'm glad that your truck " runs fantastic with a lot more
>> power"...... too bad that doesn't seem to mean much when I know of a lot
>> of shops that might not be able to give you that.
>>
>> Jim Warman
>>
>> A tech who can give customer references - and proud of it.
>>
>>
>> "Brad and Mia" > wrote in message
>> news:ShOvd.492739$Pl.136744@pd7tw1no...
>>> Hey all. Just an FYI for all of those kind enough to help diagnose my
>>> dead Bronco.
>>>
>>> I got my it back from Ford today. It turned out to be the carb...
>>> pretty much shot. I got the Ford boys to rebuild it as opposed to
>>> getting a rebuilt one. Well, it runs fantastic with a lot more power.
>>>
>>> BUT, they charged me for the inspection ($50) and the infamous BS "shop
>>> supplies" ($36). My ass hurts. I'm going to fight both of these cause
>>> they're crap. If I get one back, I'll consider myself lucky.
>>>
>>> But again, it runs great! Smooth idle, no lag, and more power. Thanks
>>> for all the help guys!
>>>
>>> Brad
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

"walt peifer" > wrote:
> Most of the dealerships i have worked at over the past 25 years, the
> repair shop is a break even part of the business and is there to support
> the new car sales end,(who would buy a car from a dealer without a shop??)

Incidently, I purchased my used SUV from Fairly Reliable Bob's
(www.fairlys.com) here in Boise which has their own shop and
only charges $45 hour labor plus all parts at their cost which is
a helluva deal there. They only service vehicles purchased from
their dealership. IOW, they won't service my wife's car as she
didn't buy it from them. Other dealers want $65-75 hr.

Since I'm also a motorcyclist, the labor rates here in Boise for
Carl's Cycles, a multi-brand Japanese dealer is $54 or $56 hr,
Cycle Nuts, the HD dealer, is $59.95 hr, and Big Twin Cycles,
a multi-brand European dealer, is $50 hr.

-=Grumbler

"Brad and Mia" > wrote in message
news:_1Svd.514950$nl.367832@pd7tw3no...
That's why I pay $100/hour to get it fixed at
> Ford (Advantage in Calgary). A doctor, btw, get's $27.50 for a 15 minute
> visit. Do the math here...

Damn... be glad you aren't in the STATES !... I can barely get an ASPRIN
for $27.50

>
> That said, what does a mechanic make? $30/hour? $40? Where does the
other
> $60 go? That's what I am fighting. What a bunch of BS!

Little silly things like a building to work in, electricity to power the
tools, lifts, water, phone, insurance

and then there's that pesky little thing that *most* business owners have
the gall to want...

PROFIT!

Honestly, I'm a little surprised that the diagnostic charge wasn't waived
when you had the work done. That's a pretty standard practice

Also, I have to say that a $30.00 shop supply charge seems high. $30.00 buys
a lot of shop towels / adhesive / cleaner / etc.. $4.00 - 5.00 would
probably be more appropriate.


> Everytime I have a repair I hit up the mechanic for under the table work.
I
> pay him $50, and that is $75/hour for him after taxes. I save $50/hour and
> the mechanic makes 50% more money.

That's great, but, let's say Joe Shadetree inadvertantly does something
wrong, and ...you wind up burning a valve, or burning a hole in a piston.
will he eat the cost of an entire engine rebuild ? Even if he wants to,
can he afford to ?

Sure, it's extreme, but these are some of the "costs" that shops have to
deal with, and eat. Sometimes mistakes are made, and they can be costly,
but a good shop will stand behind their work, and make it right. That costs
money and adds to overhead (part of that $60.00 you're looking for )


>
> And I ALWAYS get my Bronco (and Mustang(s)) serviced at Ford, even though
> the cost is brutal. That's because the work is alway done right, and if
> there ever is a problem, they stand behind it. But ****, cut your good
> customers a deal.... we keep coming back at $100/hour and it would be
nice
> to get just a little of a break now and then.

True enough... and maybe a nice chat over a cup of coffee with the service
manager may just get you that.

> That's it...
>
> Brad
>
>
>
> "Jim Warman" > wrote in message
> news:jLPvd.36183$Ya4.30500@edtnps84...
> > Brad.... I'm sure you are referring to a charge for diagnostics rather
> > than "inspection". Time for a little lesson in economics....
> >
> > Y'see, my wife and kid really seem to like it when I bring home a
> > paycheck. Now, I could do diagnostics for free and watch half the time I
> > spend at work disappear over the horizon as motorists either do the work
> > themselves or find some cheap-ass shop (that couldn't diagnose their way
> > ou of the bathroom) fix it with antiquated equipment and, often,
> > questionable techniques.
> >
> > Diagnosis is a service... this service is NOT included in the flat rate
> > times quoted in any manual. Without the diagnostic process, I might be
> > left throwing money at your car needlessly.
> >
> > Since the diagnostic process is a very real service, I am left to ponder
> > why we leave a tip for the waitress to do her job but we refuse to pay a
> > mechanic to do his.
> >
> > Shop supplies has always been that hazy area. Bear in mind, though, that
> > if I have to spend extra time to itemize each rag, each wrap tie and
each
> > squirt of this or that, that time will be added to the work order.
Without
> > the shop supply charge, instead of having me spread a coat of gasket
> > shellac or a bead of silicon or a squirt of weasel-****.... you would
> > likely be charged for a whole container of gasket shellac, a whole tube
of
> > silicone or a whole spray bomb of weasel-****. Granted, some shops get
> > carried away with shop supply charges. But, if it's a good shop that
gives
> > the desired result, it's because the bill is bigger than "ElCheapo Auto
> > Repair" (you know, the guys that fix your car 8 times and it comes back
> > worse each time?). I am well recompensed - I have a very high customer
> > satisfaction index, a very low repeat repair index, and a very high
fixed
> > right the first time status... this is tempered with an eye to customer
> > running costs AND the need to ensure that I haven't missed something
that
> > will turn the repair into a disappointment.
> >
> > An exchange from long ago..... "How much to perform this repair to my
> > car?" - "About $150." - "The man down the street only wants $95." -
"Well,
> > make sure he uses good quality parts and stands behind his warranty." -
> > "Oh, you misunderstand...... I want YOU to do the job." - "Oh... I
> > understand..... and I want $150.". The good guys are worth more than the
> > bad guys - ain't gonna get much simpler than that.
> >
> > It's all very simple.... back when I had my own shop, there were many
> > instances that a stranded motorist would get all out of shape because I
> > had the balls to ask for money for a piece of wire..... like...... I'm
> > supposed to buy this stuff by the roll so I can give it away by the
> > foot????
> >
> > Anyway, I'm glad that your truck " runs fantastic with a lot more
> > power"...... too bad that doesn't seem to mean much when I know of a lot
> > of shops that might not be able to give you that.
> >
> > Jim Warman
> >
> > A tech who can give customer references - and proud of it.
> >
> >
> > "Brad and Mia" > wrote in message
> > news:ShOvd.492739$Pl.136744@pd7tw1no...
> >> Hey all. Just an FYI for all of those kind enough to help diagnose my
> >> dead Bronco.
> >>
> >> I got my it back from Ford today. It turned out to be the carb...
> >> pretty much shot. I got the Ford boys to rebuild it as opposed to
> >> getting a rebuilt one. Well, it runs fantastic with a lot more power.
> >>
> >> BUT, they charged me for the inspection ($50) and the infamous BS "shop
> >> supplies" ($36). My ass hurts. I'm going to fight both of these cause
> >> they're crap. If I get one back, I'll consider myself lucky.
> >>
> >> But again, it runs great! Smooth idle, no lag, and more power. Thanks
> >> for all the help guys!
> >>
> >> Brad
> >>
> >
> >
>
>

Grumbler opined in :


> I purchased my used SUV from Fairly Reliable Bob's
> (www.fairlys.com) here in Boise

I LIKE it... good double-meaning, humorous name!


--
- Yes, I'm a crusty old geezer curmudgeon.. deal with it! -

"Joe" > wrote in message
...
> "Brad and Mia" > wrote in
> news:_1Svd.514950$nl.367832@pd7tw3no:
>
>> Jim,
>>
>> You've given me advice in the past, (and I appreciate it) but this
>> stuff is crap.
>
> Actually, I think Jim pretty much hit the nail on the head.
>
>> Yes, my truck runs great! That's why I pay $100/hour to get it
>> fixed at Ford (Advantage in Calgary). A doctor, btw, get's $27.50
>> for a 15 minute visit. Do the math here...
>
> Hell, if I go to the doc, it's $15 for the copay just to get a glimpse
> of him. Then, if he does anything besides talk to me, there's always
> something for three figures that insurance won't cover. My solution
> is not to go to the doc.
>
>> Dealerships are ripoffs.
>
> Not really true. Some are, some aren't. The Dodge dealer I take the
> truck to is great. Sure, I'll pay top dollar, but I'll get top
> service.
>
>> BUT, I go there, as do many others, because
>> we assume, the job will be done right. (I paid $600 once for an
>> alternator and belt, installed in my Bronco - I had no choice, but
>> c'mon....)
>
> You just told yourself why dealers are not ripoffs. You can bet the
> $600 covered a lot more than just parts.
>
>> Yet, truth be told, I can't think of a time when I
>> haven't spent a week's pay on a day's auto work that it has let me
>> down.
>
> There ya go. You said it again.
>
>> That said, what does a mechanic make? $30/hour? $40? Where does
>> the other $60 go? That's what I am fighting. What a bunch of BS!
>
> Not really. The mechanic's salary is only part of the dealer's
> expense. How about the mechanic's health insurance, the cost of
> running the shop, etc.? Service departments have to turn a profit.
>
>> Everytime I have a repair I hit up the mechanic for under the table
>> work. I pay him $50, and that is $75/hour for him after taxes. I
>> save $50/hour and the mechanic makes 50% more money. The only one
>> who loses is the dealership - they don't get my $60/hour. That is
>> what ****es me off. The dealers are screwing me and the mechanic!
>
> No they're not. They offer a service for a price with a guarantee
> attached. They're also carry the maker's name, which many people
> value. Why did you approach the dealer mechanic in the first place
> and not a mechanic at Bob's Fix It Shop? I'll bet it was because you
> knew the mechanic at the dealer was going to do a better job.
>
>> That is why I always try to get the mechanic to do the work on the
>> side. 50% of the time, he agrees. The other 50% of the time, I pay
>> $35 for 20 cents worth of grease.
>
> The $35 for grease is high, but it's built-in profit for the dealer.
> It's part of the "experience" of having the dealer do the work. In
> return, you get your work done right the first time with a guarantee.
> Again, it's your choice.
>
>> I'm not saying charging for a disagonstic is wrong.... but if you
>> get it fixed there, at $100/hour, you'd think they cut you a
>> deal....
>
> Talk to the service manager. You might be surprised. If he wants you
> back badly enough, he might just work with you.
>
>> And I ALWAYS get my Bronco (and Mustang(s)) serviced at Ford, even
>> though the cost is brutal. That's because the work is alway done
>> right, and if there ever is a problem, they stand behind it. But
>> ****, cut your good customers a deal.... we keep coming back at
>> $100/hour and it would be nice to get just a little of a break now
>> and then.
>>
>> That's it...
>>
>> Brad
>
> So talk to the service manager. He might just cut you a break. And
> even if he doesn't, you know it's still worth the extra $35 to go
> back. Of course, it's still ok to bitch about it - we all do.
>
> Joe
> Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies
> Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC



Yeah, just a little steamed last night.

I wish I had the time to do these jobs myself (like the alternator, died
News Years Eve at about 3 p.m., and I was in another city) but sometimes you
just can't. Like everyone, I need my car everyday, especially in December.

I guess the ****er is that my dad has been buying cars from this one Ford
dealership since the 70s (from Pintos to an LS8 a few years ago) I have all
my cars serviced there too. My family has spent zillions at this place but
yet... $36.25 shop supplies. But I think it just dawned on me. There seems
to be so much turnover at these places that by the time you get to know one
advisor, he leaves. My last guy is now working at Kia... I think as you
said, I need to get cozy with the managers, as I assume they will stay
longer at one dealership...

Either way, I think I am going to write a (nice) letter to the owner. See
what kind of response I get. I'll let you guys know, if you care...

Brad


>
>> "Jim Warman" > wrote in message
>> news:jLPvd.36183$Ya4.30500@edtnps84...
>>> Brad.... I'm sure you are referring to a charge for diagnostics
>>> rather than "inspection". Time for a little lesson in economics....
>>>
>>> Y'see, my wife and kid really seem to like it when I bring home a
>>> paycheck. Now, I could do diagnostics for free and watch half the
>>> time I spend at work disappear over the horizon as motorists either
>>> do the work themselves or find some cheap-ass shop (that couldn't
>>> diagnose their way ou of the bathroom) fix it with antiquated
>>> equipment and, often, questionable techniques.
>>>
>>> Diagnosis is a service... this service is NOT included in the flat
>>> rate times quoted in any manual. Without the diagnostic process, I
>>> might be left throwing money at your car needlessly.
>>>
>>> Since the diagnostic process is a very real service, I am left to
>>> ponder why we leave a tip for the waitress to do her job but we
>>> refuse to pay a mechanic to do his.
>>>
>>> Shop supplies has always been that hazy area. Bear in mind, though,
>>> that if I have to spend extra time to itemize each rag, each wrap
>>> tie and each squirt of this or that, that time will be added to the
>>> work order. Without the shop supply charge, instead of having me
>>> spread a coat of gasket shellac or a bead of silicon or a squirt of
>>> weasel-****.... you would likely be charged for a whole container
>>> of gasket shellac, a whole tube of silicone or a whole spray bomb
>>> of weasel-****. Granted, some shops get carried away with shop
>>> supply charges. But, if it's a good shop that gives the desired
>>> result, it's because the bill is bigger than "ElCheapo Auto Repair"
>>> (you know, the guys that fix your car 8 times and it comes back
>>> worse each time?). I am well recompensed - I have a very high
>>> customer satisfaction index, a very low repeat repair index, and a
>>> very high fixed right the first time status... this is tempered
>>> with an eye to customer running costs AND the need to ensure that I
>>> haven't missed something that will turn the repair into a
>>> disappointment.
>>>
>>> An exchange from long ago..... "How much to perform this repair to
>>> my car?" - "About $150." - "The man down the street only wants
>>> $95." - "Well, make sure he uses good quality parts and stands
>>> behind his warranty." - "Oh, you misunderstand...... I want YOU to
>>> do the job." - "Oh... I understand..... and I want $150.". The good
>>> guys are worth more than the bad guys - ain't gonna get much
>>> simpler than that.
>>>
>>> It's all very simple.... back when I had my own shop, there were
>>> many instances that a stranded motorist would get all out of shape
>>> because I had the balls to ask for money for a piece of wire.....
>>> like...... I'm supposed to buy this stuff by the roll so I can give
>>> it away by the foot????
>>>
>>> Anyway, I'm glad that your truck " runs fantastic with a lot more
>>> power"...... too bad that doesn't seem to mean much when I know of
>>> a lot of shops that might not be able to give you that.
>>>
>>> Jim Warman
>>>
>>> A tech who can give customer references - and proud of it.
>>>
>>>
>>> "Brad and Mia" > wrote in message
>>> news:ShOvd.492739$Pl.136744@pd7tw1no...
>>>> Hey all. Just an FYI for all of those kind enough to help
>>>> diagnose my dead Bronco.
>>>>
>>>> I got my it back from Ford today. It turned out to be the carb...
>>>> pretty much shot. I got the Ford boys to rebuild it as opposed to
>>>> getting a rebuilt one. Well, it runs fantastic with a lot more
>>>> power.
>>>>
>>>> BUT, they charged me for the inspection ($50) and the infamous BS
>>>> "shop supplies" ($36). My ass hurts. I'm going to fight both of
>>>> these cause they're crap. If I get one back, I'll consider myself
>>>> lucky.
>>>>
>>>> But again, it runs great! Smooth idle, no lag, and more power.
>>>> Thanks for all the help guys!
>>>>
>>>> Brad
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>

The other $60/hr??? Well, the WDS tool cost somewhere between $8000 and
$12000 WITHOUT the attachments. The NGS was about $4000 or so but now they
are adding to that for about another $3000.... My hoist alone was about
$12000 or so and that doesn't include what it takes in maintenance to make
sure it doesn't squish me (27000 pound capacity..... that could make for one
flat redhead). Then we realize that no shop can function without
documentation..... that subscription can go way north of $4000/year. And
there's tools... lot's and lot's of tools.... some you just plain need....
some the government tells you you need.... some that Ford just drop ships to
you (you sold that car - you bought this tool)...... When I finally sold out
my business, I was paying over $2000/month for electricity - $3000/month
rent and I paid maintenance and repairs. WCB and EI add to the labour costs
as do snow removal, trash removal, waste oil removal, antifreeze recycling,
R134 recycling and just plain trying to keep the place presentable. I'm sure
that many costs in major urban areas are much higher.

That shop earns a LOT less money than most people think and many are lucky
to break even. There are so many costs that civilians just don't get to
see.... Oh... I forgot my coveralls and rags and varsol and.....

Go to the dealer and get a retail repair done using Ford FQR rebuilts in
Calgary and have that thing pooch out in Hogtown..... show the bill and the
warranty is honoured..... try that with back alley Bill.... (sorry, Bill,
another Bill - not you).

I've been to the school in Calgary a few times and there is usually someone
from your dealer attending..... dang - I get paid 8 hours a day to go to
school, the hotel is $100/night (yes, the Adantage guys go to Edmonton for
classes) and, of course, there's groceries (been trying to get them to pay
my bar tab but that ain't gonna happen). Talking to the guys down there
shows good techs in good shops are getting $24 - $28/hour. Might sound like
a lot but I have a lot more money tied up in personal tools than most people
have tied up in the car I'm working on.... and NO, we don't get a tax break
even though we are unemployable without them.

I'm not saying that paying big bucks is a guarranty that the job will be the
best ever..... I am saying that there is more opportunity for disappointment
in going for the lowest price. Last Monday, I worked until near midnight to
get a truck back on the road.... this guy is what we call an "A" customer.
Last week, a "D" customer demanded that I cancel dinner with my family and
knock 10% off the bill because he was paying cash..... I finished his job,
as promised, before noon on the following day. Shops that are hungry for
jobs, are usually hungry for a very good reason.

There's no bull****, Brad...... A repair garage is not a licence to print
money... the hidden costs are astounding. That this trade eats the human
body alive can escape many folks..... Motorists should choose their shops
carefully. I can't tell you how many times I have set upon a repair that has
been attempted by others only to fid I have to spend a lot of money fixing
what someone else needlessly screwed up.

You're gonna have your own ideas about shops..... but I can guarranty that
most of them are wrong.

BTW.... you gotta remember that 50% of all doctors graduated in the bottom
half of their class... The top half of the class left the country...


"Brad and Mia" > wrote in message
news:_1Svd.514950$nl.367832@pd7tw3no...
> Jim,
>
> You've given me advice in the past, (and I appreciate it) but this stuff
> is crap.
>
> Yes, my truck runs great! That's why I pay $100/hour to get it fixed at
> Ford (Advantage in Calgary). A doctor, btw, get's $27.50 for a 15 minute
> visit. Do the math here...
>
> Dealerships are ripoffs. BUT, I go there, as do many others, because we
> assume, the job will be done right. (I paid $600 once for an alternator
> and belt, installed in my Bronco - I had no choice, but c'mon....) Yet,
> truth be told, I can't think of a time when I haven't spent a week's pay
> on a day's auto work that it has let me down.
>
> That said, what does a mechanic make? $30/hour? $40? Where does the
> other $60 go? That's what I am fighting. What a bunch of BS!
>
> Everytime I have a repair I hit up the mechanic for under the table work.
> I pay him $50, and that is $75/hour for him after taxes. I save $50/hour
> and the mechanic makes 50% more money. The only one who loses is the
> dealership - they don't get my $60/hour. That is what ****es me off. The
> dealers are screwing me and the mechanic! That is why I always try to get
> the mechanic to do the work on the side. 50% of the time, he agrees. The
> other 50% of the time, I pay $35 for 20 cents worth of grease.
>
> I'm not saying charging for a disagonstic is wrong.... but if you get it
> fixed there, at $100/hour, you'd think they cut you a deal....
>
> And I ALWAYS get my Bronco (and Mustang(s)) serviced at Ford, even though
> the cost is brutal. That's because the work is alway done right, and if
> there ever is a problem, they stand behind it. But ****, cut your good
> customers a deal.... we keep coming back at $100/hour and it would be
> nice to get just a little of a break now and then.
>
> That's it...
>
> Brad
>
>
>
> "Jim Warman" > wrote in message
> news:jLPvd.36183$Ya4.30500@edtnps84...
>> Brad.... I'm sure you are referring to a charge for diagnostics rather
>> than "inspection". Time for a little lesson in economics....
>>
>> Y'see, my wife and kid really seem to like it when I bring home a
>> paycheck. Now, I could do diagnostics for free and watch half the time I
>> spend at work disappear over the horizon as motorists either do the work
>> themselves or find some cheap-ass shop (that couldn't diagnose their way
>> ou of the bathroom) fix it with antiquated equipment and, often,
>> questionable techniques.
>>
>> Diagnosis is a service... this service is NOT included in the flat rate
>> times quoted in any manual. Without the diagnostic process, I might be
>> left throwing money at your car needlessly.
>>
>> Since the diagnostic process is a very real service, I am left to ponder
>> why we leave a tip for the waitress to do her job but we refuse to pay a
>> mechanic to do his.
>>
>> Shop supplies has always been that hazy area. Bear in mind, though, that
>> if I have to spend extra time to itemize each rag, each wrap tie and each
>> squirt of this or that, that time will be added to the work order.
>> Without the shop supply charge, instead of having me spread a coat of
>> gasket shellac or a bead of silicon or a squirt of weasel-****.... you
>> would likely be charged for a whole container of gasket shellac, a whole
>> tube of silicone or a whole spray bomb of weasel-****. Granted, some
>> shops get carried away with shop supply charges. But, if it's a good shop
>> that gives the desired result, it's because the bill is bigger than
>> "ElCheapo Auto Repair" (you know, the guys that fix your car 8 times and
>> it comes back worse each time?). I am well recompensed - I have a very
>> high customer satisfaction index, a very low repeat repair index, and a
>> very high fixed right the first time status... this is tempered with an
>> eye to customer running costs AND the need to ensure that I haven't
>> missed something that will turn the repair into a disappointment.
>>
>> An exchange from long ago..... "How much to perform this repair to my
>> car?" - "About $150." - "The man down the street only wants $95." -
>> "Well, make sure he uses good quality parts and stands behind his
>> warranty." - "Oh, you misunderstand...... I want YOU to do the job." -
>> "Oh... I understand..... and I want $150.". The good guys are worth more
>> than the bad guys - ain't gonna get much simpler than that.
>>
>> It's all very simple.... back when I had my own shop, there were many
>> instances that a stranded motorist would get all out of shape because I
>> had the balls to ask for money for a piece of wire..... like...... I'm
>> supposed to buy this stuff by the roll so I can give it away by the
>> foot????
>>
>> Anyway, I'm glad that your truck " runs fantastic with a lot more
>> power"...... too bad that doesn't seem to mean much when I know of a lot
>> of shops that might not be able to give you that.
>>
>> Jim Warman
>>
>> A tech who can give customer references - and proud of it.
>>
>>
>> "Brad and Mia" > wrote in message
>> news:ShOvd.492739$Pl.136744@pd7tw1no...
>>> Hey all. Just an FYI for all of those kind enough to help diagnose my
>>> dead Bronco.
>>>
>>> I got my it back from Ford today. It turned out to be the carb...
>>> pretty much shot. I got the Ford boys to rebuild it as opposed to
>>> getting a rebuilt one. Well, it runs fantastic with a lot more power.
>>>
>>> BUT, they charged me for the inspection ($50) and the infamous BS "shop
>>> supplies" ($36). My ass hurts. I'm going to fight both of these cause
>>> they're crap. If I get one back, I'll consider myself lucky.
>>>
>>> But again, it runs great! Smooth idle, no lag, and more power. Thanks
>>> for all the help guys!
>>>
>>> Brad
>>>
>>
>>
>
>