Damn, I won't be buying GTR afterall

A couple of laymans points

1. this protection is probably some infringment on your basic rights to have
a clean PC...............but get used to it, it WILL become more prevalent.
If you dont like it theres 2 solutions, jump up and down and go on a
crusade....................or go to console.

2. the protection will not stop all copying, but it will stop a hell of a
lot of the "just burn me a quick copy, mate" type of thing that the average
joe used to do. its easier for a lot of people to just buy it than find
cracks etc and/or search the net (which its not always that obvious where it
is) and d/l a gig of code. if it stops 50% of piraters then its paid for
itself. i believe it probably stops more like 75%.

3. many types of games software have problems. NFSU2 that i tryed to install
for my nephew had a major bug when recognising momo wheels. how do you think
uncle PC guru looked after that...........like a PC goose..................
and the little bugger solved it himself !!

4. the number of complaints on the forums of starforce is by no means a
majority, and is no more than normal PC game problems like the stutter (of
which there appear to be many more)

5. very few PC game problems are life threatening (in this era
anyway........maybe in the future). i find it easier to just play the game
and sort the problems out as they arise.

carlos


"Byron Forbes" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Tony Rickard" > wrote in message
> .uk...
>> "Byron Forbes" wrote:
>>
>>> From my experience this is just like all the paranoia surrounding FILSCA
>>> ie it's a load of crap - fear of the unknown. I've had GTR for over a
>>> month. Had a few teething probs geting the game to install but this was
>>> due to not having the lastest starforce drivers. No problems since.
>>
>> The innocent victim though is the non technical or new to PC user who
>> wouldn't have a clue about downloading drivers. Not everyone will get
>> past
>> the teething troubles. If it doesn't install out of the box it doesn't
>> work.
>> The techies and the pirates won't find it a problem. PC compatibility
>> issues
>> are great enough without adding to them. A danger is a segment of the
>> market
>> will be driven to the simple to use consoles and that is where the major
>> development will go.
>>
>>
>>
>
> I should add that this problem doesn't exist out of the box. Obviously
> the old starforce drivers were on the original disc. I ran into problems
> as the patches were installed - one of the newer patches was obviously
> done in conjunction with the latest starforce drivers.
>

Uwe Schürkamp wrote:

> Pick up your beer when you're in the area ;-)

Ah shysse, cannae do that, when I'm in that area I'd probably wanna do a
Ring lap or two... oh wait, probably wouldn't notice much difference
with my usual driving style anyway!

> Talking of the Deathbed Vigil video, does anyone have a digital copy?
> My old VCR is acting up and I have no means of converting analog video
> to digital formats.

Hmmm, I've seen parts of it on the Net (possibly from Dave H's own
site), but a whole copy would prob'ly be kinda uh, illegal - but maybe
if you ask Dave nicely he'd point you to a hidden file on his server.

Regards, Rudy
(GPLRank -24)

On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 01:33:57 +0100, Ruud Dingemans wrote:
> Hmmm, I've seen parts of it on the Net (possibly from Dave H's own
> site), but a whole copy would prob'ly be kinda uh, illegal - but maybe
> if you ask Dave nicely he'd point you to a hidden file on his server.

Thanks, I'll try that.

cheers,

uwe


--
GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

Darus wrote:
> Agreed, I was a poor noobie once and I have learned a lot since then.
> So why can't the "dissenters" here do the same and learn about the
> various copy protection schemes and how they (FOR THE MOST PART) do not
> negatively affect most computer OS's and other hard/software.

You assume the dissenters haven't learned. The negative effect is not
necessarily the point (although given the near infinite possible
combinations of Wintel system, it's a very dangerous assumption to make
that it will be "safe" - would you buy a CD for your cat where it had to
install something in your engine management system before it would play?).

The point, for me at least, is the presumption of guilt, particularly
when the programmers themselves know it will make no difference. You
criminalise the honest, and have ZERO effect to the dishonest. A real
life example may be ID cards - why should I suddenly need to prove who I
am? I've lived in a country for years, why suddenly should I need to
prove it? Note that I have no problem with that need per se, but it's oh
so clear that politicians will start thinking "maybe we can check this",
or "maybe gather stats on that", and the slippery slope starts.

Same with the software. I wouldn't let anyone install things in my house
to bestow upon me the right to give them my sustom, and I sure as heck
won't with my PC. Think of me as a thief and you will not get my custom.

"John Wallace" wrote:

> ...would you buy a CD for your cat where it had to...

You spoil that animal...

Anyone else noticed that it's mainly the Nascar boys bagging GTR/Starforce?
Any opportunity to sink the boot into some 'Eurotrash' ....just an
observation as an impartial aussie.... ;-)

Steve Simpson wrote:

> It's only people that have screwed systems to begin with that even -know-
> that Starforce is being installed. If you've got a half decent system that
> works properly, you won't even know about Starforce. If you're a newbie
> that doesn't have a decent system and runs into problems, well, that's what
> technical support is for.

Clearly each to his own - in my mind that only makes it worse. It's bad
enough I'm assumed to be a pirate, compounded by unnecessary software
being installed on my PC, then not being told this is being done to MY
property (PC and game).

The laws of copyright (i.e. MY right to make reasonable duplicates of MY
property) exist for a good reason. The fact that it's "unnoticable"
misses the point, or does for me at least.

Asgeir Nesoen wrote:

> And it gets worse still when you consider the fact that the software
> houses think that they'll defend their huge profits by using a petty
> protection system!
>
> We have to remember: The sim developers probably hate the idea of using
> starforce to protect their game, because:
> 1) The software house buys the game from a developer, and the developer
> gets a sum of money for this, and in a few cases, get a sum per copy
> sold, but I would think that this is substantial in most cases
> 2) The developer would like to see as many as possible enjoying his/her
> game/sim, since she/he knows that the spin-off effect of a massively
> used sim is huge, and will pay dividends in due time.
>
> This discussion is 100% analog to the music industry copy protecting
> their "cds". Why are they using such a thing? It is because they want to
> defend their huge profit and ability to shape the market through PR
> campaigns instead of founding a purchase in quality, craftsmanship and
> artistry. The artists are bought completely these days, and see little
> or nothing of the astronomical profit of the record companies.
>
> We will see more and more independant game/sim developers since the
> software houses are exploiting the market and not giving it back to the
> developers. Just like the music industry. Think of all the talent and
> ideas out there not being used or developed just because a software
> house or a record company think they won't pay dividends for *them*!
>
> ---Asgeir---

Sorry for the huge quote, but wanted to say "amen!" to that. The record
companies sit between the producer and the consumer, and are desperateto
milk that position for as long as possible. The first price reduction of
music CDs comes TWENTY YEARS after they were released onto the market,
and in response to fears over MP3s and P2P.

It's funny to read about the fears over China's respect, or lack
thereof, for the IP of companies, but watch the reaction of those same
companies when you try to put increased rights for their workers.
"Nothing should be put as an artificial barrier to a free market" etc. I
(almost) can't blame them for their protectionist approach, but I do
blame our politicians for being bought by them, and us for voting for
the morons.

Sorry, getting WAAAAY OT :-)

They will be in Eastern Europe or India somewhere, being paid a fixed
pittance by HugeSoftCorp Inc.

Andi Cole wrote:
> And what about the guys trying to earn a living from the game, don't they
> deserve some consideration?
>

Carlos_b wrote:
> A couple of laymans points
>
> 1. this protection is probably some infringment on your basic rights to have
> a clean PC...............but get used to it, it WILL become more prevalent.
> If you dont like it theres 2 solutions, jump up and down and go on a
> crusade....................or go to console.

Or buy the software and download No_CD crack

Or buy someone else's software and TELL the developer why you did it

Or, the big worry, people will just steal it.

Cheers
John