Why does the auto industry turn out such crap??

QX wrote:
> My last three vehicles:
> 1984 Dodge Caravan LE traded at 214,000 miles
> 1997 Dodge Caravan ES traded at 135,000 miles
> 2008 Dodge Caravan SXT .

There was a repair place near me that specialized in Dodge Caravans &
Plymouth Voyagers. The Dan's (the owner) theory was that he needed to
specialize in vehicles that were exceptionally unreliable, that sold in
large volumes, and that owners kept for a long time. He had a great run
until around 2003 or so when everyone started buying the Honda Odyssey
and Toyota Sienna. Now he's moved to a smaller location, and he doesn't
limit his repairs to those two models as there just aren't enough of
them around anymore.

9DodgeFan wrote:
> ...and in don't believe the first source:
> http://www.leftlanenews.com/400-hp-1...ema-debut.html
>
> Mr. Palmear's shop is on the south edge of Napoleon, OH; it's called
> "Horsepower Sales."

I know you read all about it on the internet, but it's called "bull****".

>>
>> Ed
>
> Hey, don't yell @ me; I'm just providing a link to some respectable
> forums, as was requested. Of course I would like to see proof, too.
> For now, I'm content to take the guy's word on it and see what happens
> (I'll admit, living in the same town as Mr. Palmear, having seen his
> shop, and knowing some of his "team" members gives me a little more
> reason to believe it's legit.). Time will tell. Anyway, the main
> point I was trying to make (albeit in a roundabout way) was that I
> think the automakers and oil companies have under-the-table contracts
> to make vehicles with poor (relatively speaking) fuel economy.

This is what makes you an idiot. You do not have "to take his word" for
it. There's a little thing called "Physics" involved. You should never
have dropped out of high school.

Tom,

Your post makes no sense at all. Claiming that Japanese imports are
gaining ground because of insolence is lame and indefensible.

American cars suck. End of story. There may be some exceptions but damn
few. If you want to get the most transportation for the money, you must
buy Japanese. It may cost more up front but after years of high repair
bills on American cars, cost of ownership will kill you.

We all know it. You sound like one of the global warming deniers. Just
because you want American cars to be good does not make it real.

Any American car can be made to run 300,000 miles. All it takes is very
deep pockets for the repair bills. I don't have deep pockets. Therefor I
buy Japanese.

Claiming that the Japanese automakers are putting American manufacturers
out of business because we Americans who buy them are all idiots is
again, extremely lame.

I could call you an idiot for buying American. What does that prove.
Nothing.

People vote with their checkbooks. American manufacturers lost the
contest long ago. American auto makers refuse to build a durable
automobile and most Americans are waking up to this fact. Now they want
their businesses supported with our tax money. If you can't compete in
the open market beg to be a government agency that makes cars. If that
happens, and I think that it will, they will have absolutely no reason
to make a better car. They can live on our tax money.

I have not heard Honda or Toyota begging for tax money. I wonder why.


Tom wrote:
> > wrote in message
> ...
>> Those car makers have also engaged in planned obsolence of their
>> products - delivering cars that only get about 100,000 miles for their
>> life cycle as opposed to the 150,000 or so delivered by the foreign
>> automakers like Nissan, Toyota, and Honda.
>
> you are so full of it that it is coming out of your ears. i know of more
> american made vehicles with over 300,000 miles on them than i do of foreign
> made vehicles with 150,000 miles on them still driving on the roads.
>
>> The American automakers have also been in collusion with the oil
>> companies by not having their products deliver higher miles per
>> gallon. The foreign automakers have done so, and that is a great
>> reason, along with the ones given above, that the American automakers have
>> found themselves in the position they are in now - even after they have
>> found themselves in that position before.
>
> again. you are full of it.
> i laugh at the honda commercials where they claim their sardine can car gets
> "an amazing 21mpg average"
> my full size ford crown victoria gets a lousy average 24mpg, and with the
> cruise set at 60mpg, it consistantly gets over 30mpg on long highway runs
> with 4 adults in it.
>
>
>> There is a car maker in Italy which produces a car that gets 147 miles per
>> gallon.
> again you are full of it.
> the only way a car can get 147 mpg is if the engine is turned off, and it
> is falling down a very tall mountain. .
>
>> And, because of the role that lobbyists have in our society -
>> protecting their employers at the great expense of the American
>> people, the American people have been shafted by the domestic
>> automakers.
>
> again, you are full of it.
> the american people are being shafted by themselves. if they would not buy
> foreign junk, there would not be any problem
>> One further point to be considered is when the domestic car
>> manufacturers started offshoring the manufacturing of their
>> automobiles to 3rd world countries such as Canada and Mexico there was not
>> any reduction in the price of the products.
>
> now you are just plain friggin stupid.
> Mexico and Canada are not "3rd world countries"
>
> So the American automakers have continually dug themselves deeper and
> deeper holes since the early 1970s, when Toyota and Volkswagen started to
> clean their clocks due to their insouciance and insolence.
>
> again, you are an idiot.
>
> the American automakers are failing because of idiots like you who would
> rather buy foreign junk.
>
>
>

"Michael" > wrote in message
. ..
> Tom,
>
> Your post makes no sense at all. Claiming that Japanese imports are
> gaining ground because of insolence is lame and indefensible.
>
> American cars suck. End of story. There may be some exceptions but damn
> few. If you want to get the most transportation for the money, you must
> buy Japanese. It may cost more up front but after years of high repair
> bills on American cars, cost of ownership will kill you.
>
> We all know it. You sound like one of the global warming deniers. Just
> because you want American cars to be good does not make it real.
>
> Any American car can be made to run 300,000 miles. All it takes is very
> deep pockets for the repair bills. I don't have deep pockets. Therefor I
> buy Japanese.
>
> Claiming that the Japanese automakers are putting American manufacturers
> out of business because we Americans who buy them are all idiots is again,
> extremely lame.
>
> I could call you an idiot for buying American. What does that prove.
> Nothing.
>
> People vote with their checkbooks. American manufacturers lost the contest
> long ago. American auto makers refuse to build a durable automobile and
> most Americans are waking up to this fact. Now they want their businesses
> supported with our tax money. If you can't compete in the open market beg
> to be a government agency that makes cars. If that happens, and I think
> that it will, they will have absolutely no reason to make a better car.
> They can live on our tax money.
>
> I have not heard Honda or Toyota begging for tax money. I wonder why.

Because Japanese still have honor and a far superior managment team. Yes,
to them to beg for handouts on this scale, you know the board will fire
their asses. In fact, Toyota just shook up senior management as they will
not wait 30+ years to fix their issues.

My compliments to them for not being a drag on the economy and tax payers
wallets. It will be rewarded with my next purchase.

"Michael" > wrote in message
. ..
> Tom,
>
>
> I have not heard Honda or Toyota begging for tax money. I wonder why.
>

Your uninformed or misinformed opinion does not deserve a reply.


"Canuck57" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Michael" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> Tom,
>>
>> Your post makes no sense at all. Claiming that Japanese imports are
>> gaining ground because of insolence is lame and indefensible.
>>
>> American cars suck. End of story. There may be some exceptions but damn
>> few. If you want to get the most transportation for the money, you must
>> buy Japanese. It may cost more up front but after years of high repair
>> bills on American cars, cost of ownership will kill you.
>>
>> We all know it. You sound like one of the global warming deniers. Just
>> because you want American cars to be good does not make it real.
>>
>> Any American car can be made to run 300,000 miles. All it takes is very
>> deep pockets for the repair bills. I don't have deep pockets. Therefor I
>> buy Japanese.
>>
>> Claiming that the Japanese automakers are putting American manufacturers
>> out of business because we Americans who buy them are all idiots is
>> again,
>> extremely lame.
>>
>> I could call you an idiot for buying American. What does that prove.
>> Nothing.
>>
>> People vote with their checkbooks. American manufacturers lost the
>> contest
>> long ago. American auto makers refuse to build a durable automobile and
>> most Americans are waking up to this fact. Now they want their businesses
>> supported with our tax money. If you can't compete in the open market beg
>> to be a government agency that makes cars. If that happens, and I think
>> that it will, they will have absolutely no reason to make a better car.
>> They can live on our tax money.
>>
>> I have not heard Honda or Toyota begging for tax money. I wonder why.
>
> Because Japanese still have honor and a far superior managment team. Yes,
> to them to beg for handouts on this scale, you know the board will fire
> their asses. In fact, Toyota just shook up senior management as they will
> not wait 30+ years to fix their issues.
>
> My compliments to them for not being a drag on the economy and tax payers
> wallets. It will be rewarded with my next purchase.
>
>
>

The A604 transmissions in these chrysler products were absolutely famous
for its remarkably bad design. Transmission repair shops had 40 percent
of their business at one point on this one transmission.

That transmission would only run 15 to 20 thousand miles maximum. They
required about 1500 to 2000 dollars repair if you were lucky. Chrysler
kept making them for years when they knew they were bad. Welcome to
American auto manufacturing.

Finally, most Americans realized they were being totally screwed by
Detroit and moved on the better vehicles.

Detroit simply does not deserve to be saved. They make crap and sell it
on the open market. I wonder why their business tanked.

Now they will only be in business as a government auto manufacturing
industry. Our tax dollars supporting complete incompetence.


SMS wrote:
> QX wrote:
>> My last three vehicles:
>> 1984 Dodge Caravan LE traded at 214,000 miles
>> 1997 Dodge Caravan ES traded at 135,000 miles
>> 2008 Dodge Caravan SXT .
>
> There was a repair place near me that specialized in Dodge Caravans &
> Plymouth Voyagers. The Dan's (the owner) theory was that he needed to
> specialize in vehicles that were exceptionally unreliable, that sold in
> large volumes, and that owners kept for a long time. He had a great run
> until around 2003 or so when everyone started buying the Honda Odyssey
> and Toyota Sienna. Now he's moved to a smaller location, and he doesn't
> limit his repairs to those two models as there just aren't enough of
> them around anymore.

That brings to mind all the sludged up Toyota engines.


"Michael" > wrote in message
...
> The A604 transmissions in these chrysler products were absolutely famous
> for its remarkably bad design. Transmission repair shops had 40 percent of
> their business at one point on this one transmission.
>
> That transmission would only run 15 to 20 thousand miles maximum. They
> required about 1500 to 2000 dollars repair if you were lucky. Chrysler
> kept making them for years when they knew they were bad. Welcome to
> American auto manufacturing.

On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 10:14:01 -0500, "Mike Hunter"
<mikehunt2@lycos/com> wrote:

>That brings to mind all the sludged up Toyota engines.
>
>
>"Michael" > wrote in message
.. .
>> The A604 transmissions in these chrysler products were absolutely famous
>> for its remarkably bad design. Transmission repair shops had 40 percent of
>> their business at one point on this one transmission.
>>
>> That transmission would only run 15 to 20 thousand miles maximum. They
>> required about 1500 to 2000 dollars repair if you were lucky. Chrysler
>> kept making them for years when they knew they were bad. Welcome to
>> American auto manufacturing.
>
As a former Toyota service manager I'd say it was the extended oil
drains that did it.

If the oil was changed every 5000Km (3000 miles) there would be NO
sludge. Same as with the Chryco engines.

Unlike the Chryco trannies where they had electrical/electronic
gremlins.

Even then, if the fluid was changed regularly and with the RIGHT
fluid, and the gremlins did not show up, the trannies asted a LOT
longer than those that were not serviced.