1994 Honda Accord LX stalls

I bought a used honda this week which stalls almost once a day which
didnt happen for the 20+ miles I test drove it. Although the problem
cannot be reproduced consistently, it has happened during braking at
signals, peak hour traffic. Before I forget, I know next to nothing
about automobiles and all the comments below are from mechanics who
have worked on the car.

The used car inspection listed the following issues
1. small leaks in exhaust, oil pan and left axle
2. rough/low idle
3. distributor cap & rotor, spark plug & wires (this was listed as OK
for the next few months)

I had the exhaust and left axle leaks fixed as they were the major
issues. A quick note here, the exhaust leak used to cause the engine to
make a whirring sound at 2500rpm. The mechanic checked this out and
told me that some fool had messed around with the catalytic converter
heat shielding and had cut into the converter. The mechanic welded this
back and the whirring sound did stop. This is fine now i.e. no whirring
sound.

The rest of the issues I postponed until the next servicing. And after
it stalled once, I took it to a different mechanic where he replaced
the battery wires and test drove it before declaring it fine. He did
say something about the battery, alternator and stall all being linked,
although it didnt make much sense.

I now plan to change the distributor cap & rotor, spark plug & wires
(Hopefully this should fix the problem!!!). Coming to my questions now

1. The oil pan leak was said to be "very light around the oil pan
gasket", and the mechanic assured me it should be fine till the next
servicing. How serious is this issue and could this be the reason
behind the stall?
2. While I am getting the distributor cap & rotor, spark plug & wires
changed is there anything else that may need to be replaced(A fuel
filter/air filter or the likes)??
3. Any other inputs for stalling issue? I have seen discussions about
main relays, igniters and th likes.
4. The battery load test and alternator specs were fine. Can this still
be an alternator issue as mentioned by the mechanic??

I would greatly appreciate your inputs on this and more than ready to
provide you with any information I may have missed here that you would
be interested in.

Thanks

wrote:
> I bought a used honda this week which stalls almost once a day which
> didnt happen for the 20+ miles I test drove it. <SNIP>

---------------------------

The only thing we don't know about your new car is the mileage. You may
not have to change the spark plug wires. They seem to last forever. The
oil pan leak is often no worry either. Since the vehicle is new-to-you,
you should probably run a can of injector cleaner thru it, OR a couple
tanks of Gasohol, to clean out any sludge or water in the fuel system.
This may well cure the stalling. Read the owner's manual and look thru
the previous service records to get an understanding of what should be
done. If it was serviced at a Honda dealer (we don't know what country
you're in), they are very helpful and might give you reprints of recent
work orders. Again, depending on the mileage, the tranny fluid might
need to be changed, and the Timing Belt might be overdue.

Tell us more.....

'Curly'

The mileage on the honda is 109k and the car is in MN, USA. The
transmission fuild and the timing belt have been changed by the
previous owner.

Another development since the post, it stalled when it was idling in
the garage this morning (I usually let the car warm up for a couple of
minutes before driving) but didnt stall while running (7 mile journey)

> What speed was the engine turning when it was warming up?
>
> If cold, it should have flared to about 1,500-1,700rpm on a start,
then
> settled to about 1,300-1,500rpm, then dropped steadily as the car
warmed
> up, until it hit 700rpm or so.
>
We have an un-insulated garage. So, yes, the temperature and the car
was cold (Its around 32F here). I usually open the garage and car door
and let the car idle while I am inside. So, didnt see how the
tachometer varied today morning, but the rpm rates are pretty close to
what you have written the other times that I have been in the car when
its idling (1500-1700 on start, 1300-1500 settle and slowly - over a
couple minutes - to 700-800)

> Does it idle at a constant speed or does the idle cycle up and down a
few
> hundred revs?
>
Idles at a constant gradual speed

> What sort of throttle response do you get when you gas it? Any
hesitation?
>
Nope. No hesitation

> Does it drive better when warm or cold?
>
I presume you are talking about the engine temperatures. I would say
the engine was just warming up when these stalls have happened. The
stalls have happened after idling (a couple of minutes) and within 5
miles of starting off. If it is the local weather temperatures - its
been around 32F.

> Does the temperature gauge get up to the half-way mark within 5-7
minutes
> or so?
>
Havent checked this. Too busy concentrating on the tachometer . Will
do it from now on.

> How is your heater output when full-warm?
>
The heater is awesome. It heats up the car real fast (We used to have a
1999 Camry and the heater on the Honda is better than the one on Camry)

> Is it an automatic or a manual?
>
Automatic

> Need to know more here.
>
>
>
> --
> TeGGeR=AE
>=20
> The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
> www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Some more updates based on a 5 miles drive I had just now.

1. This happened 4 miles after I started off and the car stalled even
when I was not braking. (So things have changed today, car stalled
during idling and while running at 50mph)

2. The "check engine" lights came on. I pulled over, restarted the car
(as per instructions in the manual), the "check engine" lights no
longer came on and it ran without problems from there.

Also, I was browsing through some other posts and saw a post mention
something called the PCV valve. Could this be a problem?

> A blocked PCV valve will not cause stalling. It will cause oil to be
pumped
> into the intake manifold through the crankcase breather, and
eventually
> past the engine seals, causing leaks onto your driveway.
>
>
> We need that error code from the Check Engine light:
> Directly beneath the glove box there is a 2-prong connector clipped
to a
> holder (might be blue). Short the two pins with a bent paper clip,
then
> count the blinks of the Check Engine light. There may be long and
short
> blinks, and the sequence will repeat. Report that back here. It could
give
> us a clue.
>
Will give this a shot and report back when I have the results

>
> Aaaaand, more questions:
>
> 1) So the car stalls both when you are idling at a light AND while
you are
> cruising at a fixed speed?
>
I guess I must have confused you, so let me rephrase
Stall when braking to stop - around 5 times (over the last 2 weeks)
Stall when idling in garage - 1 time (today morning)
Stall when cruising on the highway - 1 time (today afternoon)

> 2) Does it stall when **FULLY WARMED UP**? (That means driving it for
AT
> LEAST 15 or 20 minutes.
>
I think I have driven the car for longer than 15-20 mins only 3 times
until now. And it has NOT stalled on any of these rides.

> 3) When it dies, does it appear to be having trouble (shaking,
sputtering,
> etc) or does it just die out of the blue?
>
It dies out of the blue

> 4) When it stalls at idle, do the revs appear to jump up and down, or
are
> they rock steady right up to the point when the engine dies?
>
As mentioned earlier, this has happened only once (today morning) and I
wasnt in the car when this happened. So, I dont really know.

> 5) When it stalls at speed, does the car seem to sputter or shake
bfore it
> dies, or does it just cut out?
>
It just cuts out.

> 6) Does it always restart on the first turn of the key, or does it
require
> extensive cranking before it fires up?
>
Usually it is extensive cranking. (NOTE: It was extensive until I
re-read the manual and found recommended technique to restart when
"Check Engine" lights came on. Using the technique suggested in the
manual, I can get it to restart in a turn or two)

> 7)
>
> --
> TeGGeR=AE
>=20
> The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
> www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

The code is -

One long blink followed by 5 short blinks

which i prsume is Error code - 15 ? Now, what does that mean in plain
English !!!

so, what happened to the used car warranty? Was it bought as-is?
I was thinking that you should return to the dealer and demand an
exchange for the grief it has caused you.

I had the same experience when my 94 DX went over the 100,000 miles.
Except that it wouldn't start back up, which is different from your
situation.

The mechanic replaced the entire distributor. It works great now.

A quick question before I get the EACV cleaned up - Are EACV and
Igniton output related??

The reason I ask this is according to
http://autorepair.about.com/library/...l-dtcs-58a.htm the error
that we got i.e. error 15 means

15 Ignition Output Signal.

Thanks for all your help Tegger

One last question thats still on my mind is - Can a bad wire/igniter
explain all the symptoms that my car has had (I mean can it stall the
car when it is idling, stopping or cruising)??

I will run through the flow chart sometime this weekend and report my
findings and (hopefully!!!) the problem will be fixed *fingers crossed*