MFFY du jour...

Big Bill wrote:

> On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 21:47:50 GMT, Arif Khokar >
> wrote:

>>>Also no medical knowledge. But don't let that stop you.

>>Would the reason you're alluding to have anything to do with
>>claudication? If so, a periphral vascular bypass operation should solve
>>that problem.

> You and Daniel are showing a problem in your attitudes and knowledge.
> It's not up to you to make any judgements in the use of handicapped
> plates/plackards, or offer medical advice.

I'm not offering medical advice. I just tried to come up with a
possible medical condition that would support your argument. Since you
snapped at me in response, it goes to show that your argument is tenuous
at best.

"Jim Yanik" .> wrote in message
.. .
> "Skip Elliott Bowman" > wrote in
> ink.net:
>
>> "Scott en Aztlán" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 19:26:50 GMT, "Skip Elliott Bowman"
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Harry K" > wrote in message
legroups.com...
>>>>
>>>>> In my case you will find my parking in DP slots quite often.
>>>>> Looking at me you couldn't tell that anything was wrong. You would
>>>>> be correct, there isn't. I park in DP spots because my wife is
>>>>> disabled and I am taking her there or picking her up.
>>>>
>>>>That being the case, Harry, if you're driving your wife there and
>>>>picking her up, couldn't you just drop her at the door and then park
>>>>in a regular spot? Those spots are for people who are driving
>>>>themselves and can't handle long walks.
>>>
>>> That's not what the rules say, Skippy. As long as there is a
>>> handicapped person riding in the vehicle, the driver is entitled to
>>> parlk there, whether he himself is handicapped or not. This is to
>>> accommodate handicapped people who cannot drive themselves at all.
>>
>> How many aliases do you have?
>>
>>> Besides, I would much rather have the gimps spend 20 minutes getting
>>> into/out of their cars in an out-of-the-way parking spot than to
>>> block the main traffic aisle for 20 minutes because the driver took
>>> your advice.
>>
>> I take it you don't have any handicap friends or family; at least none
>> with whom you've shared this view. And I never suggested blocking a
>> traffic aisle. Designated parking spots don't block any aisles. You
>> just made that part up.
>>
>>
>>
>
> If you are "dropping her off *at the door*",then you would be in the fire
> lane,the road that runs in front of the businesses,and certainly blocking
> it (blocking the aisle) while you load/unload people.

And it takes about 10-15 seconds (usually less) for them to exit the car,
then the car moves out of the way. That's a lot different from what Scott
(or whatever his name really is) was alleging I wrote.

> Your words;"That being the case, Harry, if you're driving your wife there
> and picking her up, couldn't you just drop her at the door and then park
> in a regular spot? "

Exactly. Thank you.

"Big Bill" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 19:26:50 GMT, "Skip Elliott Bowman"
> > wrote:
>
>>"Harry K" > wrote in message
groups.com...
>>
>>> In my case you will find my parking in DP slots quite often. Looking
>>> at me you couldn't tell that anything was wrong. You would be correct,
>>> there isn't. I park in DP spots because my wife is disabled and I am
>>> taking her there or picking her up.
>>
>>That being the case, Harry, if you're driving your wife there and picking
>>her up, couldn't you just drop her at the door and then park in a regular
>>spot? Those spots are for people who are driving themselves and can't
>>handle long walks.
>
> No they aren't. They are for vehicles showing the plate or plackard.
> If you genuinely think there's abuse happening, you are free to call
> the police.

I'll rephrase: the plates and placards are for the cars used by the people
who drive but can't walk a long distance. Unfortunately, others may have
access to that car and take selfish advantage of the privilege that they
themselves don't need.

>>Not criticizing, just curious and asking. I see people who are
>>able-bodied
>>and driving a car with handicap plates or placards, but they don't need
>>them
>>themselves; they just think because the placard or plate is there they
>>have
>>a right to the spot. I'm not saying you're one of those people, mind you.
>>That description would fit the OP's post.
>>
> Why do you think they are able-bodied? Are you familiar with whatever
> condition they might have?
> Or do you just think so?

You made some good points earlier; not being a medical diagnostician, it's
impossible to tell most times. But if I see someone who is obviously
healthy, hale, and hearty, carrying a gym bag, and dashing inside, it's a
safe bet. I'm not saying I'm always right any more than you are. We aren't
talking about people with non-obvious health issues; we're talking about
scofflaws.

> Well, you're free to call the police if you do. But be awa if you
> call too often and display your ignorance while doing so, they might
> just start ignoring you when you call, or even cite you for false
> reporting.

So I'd better be sure I'm on solid ground, and it would have to be an
obvious and egregious offense. No problem.

I'm not in the habit of calling police over every little problem (my dad was
a cop, my mom was a court reporter, and my grandmother was a PO). I called
them twice last year; one to report a car fire and the other to report a
stalled vehicle in the middle of the prairie. What made you think I needed
a lecture on how to report a crime?

Skip Elliott Bowman wrote:
> "Harry K" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>
> > In my case you will find my parking in DP slots quite often.
Looking
> > at me you couldn't tell that anything was wrong. You would be
correct,
> > there isn't. I park in DP spots because my wife is disabled and I
am
> > taking her there or picking her up.
>
> That being the case, Harry, if you're driving your wife there and
picking
> her up, couldn't you just drop her at the door and then park in a
regular
> spot? Those spots are for people who are driving themselves and
can't
> handle long walks.
>
> Not criticizing, just curious and asking. I see people who are
able-bodied
> and driving a car with handicap plates or placards, but they don't
need them
> themselves; they just think because the placard or plate is there
they have
> a right to the spot. I'm not saying you're one of those people, mind
you.
> That description would fit the OP's post.

Poor writing on my part. Yes, when just stopping to pick up or let off
I don't -park- there. Many times I go elsewhere shopping, business,
whatever, come back and park in the DP while waiting for her. Someone
seeing me exit the car whould quite rightly wonder about it.

Harry K

In article >, Scott en Aztlán wrote:

> That's not what the rules say, Skippy. As long as there is a
> handicapped person riding in the vehicle, the driver is entitled to
> parlk there, whether he himself is handicapped or not. This is to
> accommodate handicapped people who cannot drive themselves at all.

I remember getting a few looks when using a handicaped parking space
without plates or placards. Just long enough to get my grandfather out of
the car, where then my mother would take him inside and then I would go
park the car in the boonies. Reversing the operation to leave. Of course I
don't know why they were looking, but plate or not, we were using the
space for it's intended purpose and only for a few minutes at that.

> Besides, I would much rather have the gimps spend 20 minutes getting
> into/out of their cars in an out-of-the-way parking spot than to block
> the main traffic aisle for 20 minutes because the driver took your
> advice.

I once got stuck behind some slow poke. He was driving in the parking lot
slower than I could walk. He finally turns to go to the front I turn to
park in the boonies. I park and as I am walking through the handicaped
spot he decides in his first half-way rapid move to turn in and if I had
not gotten out of the way, he would have hit me.

"Scott en Aztlán" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 21:18:33 GMT, "Skip Elliott Bowman"
> > wrote:
>
>>>>That being the case, Harry, if you're driving your wife there and
>>>>picking
>>>>her up, couldn't you just drop her at the door and then park in a
>>>>regular
>>>>spot? Those spots are for people who are driving themselves and can't
>>>>handle long walks.
>>>
>>> That's not what the rules say, Skippy. As long as there is a
>>> handicapped person riding in the vehicle, the driver is entitled to
>>> parlk there, whether he himself is handicapped or not. This is to
>>> accommodate handicapped people who cannot drive themselves at all.
>>
>>How many aliases do you have?
>
> You sound confused.

I am. I thought you were Scott, but then when I ask a question of someone
else you answer as if you were them. It's a case of you are an individual
using the names Scott, Daniel, Bill, and a few others, or you just like
speaking for them. I know, it's Usenet, and I enjoy many of your posts
(under the name Scott) but that doesn't mean that people can't speak for
themselves.

> Unlike some around here, I do not nymshift.

Nymshift? I've never heard that term.

>>> Besides, I would much rather have the gimps spend 20 minutes getting
>>> into/out of their cars in an out-of-the-way parking spot than to block
>>> the main traffic aisle for 20 minutes because the driver took your
>>> advice.
>>
>>I take it you don't have any handicap friends or family; at least none
>>with
>>whom you've shared this view. And I never suggested blocking a traffic
>>aisle.
>
> You said the non-handicapped driver should drop the handicapped
> passenger off AT THE DOOR and then go park in a regular parking space.
>
> I suppose you meant that the driver should pull up onto the sidewalk
> to discharge his handicapped passenger?

Yes. You embroidered on that point, though--I never once said he should
just sit there and block a lane for 20 minutes. You made that up. What,
you've never stopped to drop someone off and blocked a lane (never more than
15 seconds) before?

Am I right about you having only able-bodied people in your family/circle of
friends?

"Scott en Aztlán" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 01:26:16 GMT, "Skip Elliott Bowman"
> > wrote:
>
>>>>>>That being the case, Harry, if you're driving your wife there and
>>>>>>picking her up, couldn't you just drop her at the door and then park
>>>>>>in a regular spot? Those spots are for people who are driving
>>>>>>themselves and can't handle long walks.
>>>>
>>>>> Besides, I would much rather have the gimps spend 20 minutes getting
>>>>> into/out of their cars in an out-of-the-way parking spot than to
>>>>> block the main traffic aisle for 20 minutes because the driver took
>>>>> your advice.
>>>>
>>>> I take it you don't have any handicap friends or family; at least none
>>>> with whom you've shared this view. And I never suggested blocking a
>>>> traffic aisle. Designated parking spots don't block any aisles. You
>>>> just made that part up.
>>>
>>> If you are "dropping her off *at the door*",then you would be in the
>>> fire
>>> lane,the road that runs in front of the businesses,and certainly
>>> blocking
>>> it (blocking the aisle) while you load/unload people.
>>
>>And it takes about 10-15 seconds (usually less) for them to exit the car,
>>then the car moves out of the way.
>
> I take it you don't have any handicapped friends or family.
>
> My grandfather, who could still walk back when I used to drive hikm
> around, took 45 - 60 seconds just to get into or out of the car.
> Imagine how much more time it would have taken if he was wheelchair
> bound, with the folded-up wheelchair attached to a bike rack on the
> trunk.

Sorry to hear about your grandfather. But that illustrates my point--would
you drop him at the door and then park, or park wherever (handicap spot or
not) and make him walk all that ways?

My whole I've been experiencing thoughtless drivers who hog handicapped
spots with apparent impunity. I call them on it whenever I see it. And I
give plenty of consideration for the old (where I may be someday) and the
infirm (there but for the grace of God go I) when I encounter them.

> I love it when morons paint themselves into a corner.

Scott, I think you just like slinging insults. Can't you make your point
without lashing out with personal attacks? If you can't, you can't, but I
expected better from you.

"Scott en Aztlán" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 01:34:10 GMT, "Skip Elliott Bowman"
> > wrote:
>
>>I'll rephrase: the plates and placards are for the cars used by the people
>>who drive but can't walk a long distance.
>
> Not solely. As has been pointed out to you already (by multiple
> people), "abled" drivers are also allowed to park in these spaces when
> transporting the handicapped.
>
> If you have facts to the contrary, you are hereby called upon to cite
> them.

I've been informed by an expert on Oregon Revised Statutes (my wife, who
used to be in the legislature) that I've held the wrong idea. It seems you
and the others are right about this; people transporting the handicapped and
have plates or placards are allowed to use those handicap spots.

Hey, I don't mind admitting I made a mistake This doesn't alter the
fact that abuses do occur. It's those abuses I'm addressing.

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 23:52:18 GMT, Arif Khokar >
wrote:

>Big Bill wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 21:47:50 GMT, Arif Khokar >
>> wrote:
>
>>>>Also no medical knowledge. But don't let that stop you.
>
>>>Would the reason you're alluding to have anything to do with
>>>claudication? If so, a periphral vascular bypass operation should solve
>>>that problem.
>
>> You and Daniel are showing a problem in your attitudes and knowledge.
>> It's not up to you to make any judgements in the use of handicapped
>> plates/plackards, or offer medical advice.
>
>I'm not offering medical advice. I just tried to come up with a
>possible medical condition that would support your argument. Since you
>snapped at me in response, it goes to show that your argument is tenuous
>at best.

No, it shows that you are trying to justify something you have no
reason to justify.
I can speak for Arizona: here, it takes a doctor's description and
professional opinion that the handicapped plate is warranted.
While I don't *know* about othert states, I'd bet most if not all have
something similar; the driver can't just go into the DMV and ask for a
handicapp plate.
When you presume to do as you did (offer a diagnosis, and a procedure
that would fix it), you're being seen by me as second-guessing the
system and the doctor and the driver. IMO, that's kind of arrogant.
That you or anyone else doesn't see and recognize the handicap doesn't
mean there isn't one.
Yes, I *am* sensitive on this; I haver such a plate, and for a good
reason. And no, on first glance, I don't seem to have a handicap. And,
for what it's worth, I am damn lucky to be walking at all. I spent
months in a wheelchair and on crutches. I had, according to two
different doctors, an over 80% chance of never walking right again.
That I can is only due to (IMO) God's grace.
It's insulting to me and many others when people make the type of
comments that have been made here, just becasue they aren't privy to
what's going on.
Sorry if I offend, but that's the way I feel.


--
Bill Funk
Change "g" to "a"

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 15:41:33 -0800, John David Galt
> wrote:

>Arif Khokar wrote:
>> Big Bill wrote:
>>
>>> Also no medical knowledge.
>>> But don't let that stop you.
>>
>>
>> Would the reason you're alluding to have anything to do with
>> claudication? If so, a periphral vascular bypass operation should solve
>> that problem.
>
>My diagnosis is that he needs a cranial rectal extraction.

You probably speak from experience.

--
Bill Funk
Change "g" to "a"