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#11
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C. E. White wrote: > Even Toyota is using Delphi parts. Are you saying we shouldn't rely on > Toyota now becasue they are using Delphi parts? > > Ed I'm well aware of the Delco (mostly at time of manufacture) parts used by Toyota. They are the parts that by and large have horrific failure rates. Make of that what you will. Many chose not to believe that Delco(phi) products generally suck. Are you one of them? Toyota MDT in MO |
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#12
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C. E. White wrote:
> "Comboverfish" > wrote in message > ups.com... > > >>I know what you are saying, but it is quite funny to see "rely" and >>"Delphi" in the same sentence. > > > Even Toyota is using Delphi parts. Are you saying we shouldn't rely on > Toyota now becasue they are using Delphi parts? > I don't rely on them because they still use a few Toyota parts :-p |
#13
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"C. E. White" > wrote in message ... > So why is it that Visteon (the Ford equivalent of Delphi), instead of > declaring bankruptcy, was able to force (coerce, persuade) Ford to take back > 17 money losing plants and their UAW workers, and Delphi wasn't able to do > the same to GM? Seems to me that GM is getting the better deal. Delphi can > go bankrupt, cancel pensions, layoff union workers, and pay the executives > big bucks, without saddling GM with the UAW workers. Ford gets stuck holding > the bag. Did the UAW get a better deal when Ford spun off Visteon? > > Ed GM spun off Delphi some time back, according to what I read. GM would have no accountability or responsibility whatever, unless agreed to at the time of the spinoff. And since GM is in deep doo itself, it might conceivably follow Delphi's suit and wipe the slate clean. I don't know what would happen to the stockholders in such a case. In the worst case, the stocks would become valueless and a new company would be incorporated, I guess. As a better case, the stockholders would take a value hit, but might hope to come out on top as the company restructures. Ford is in as bad shape as, or more likely worse than, GM. And the problems are more or less the same...unlivable contracts, high costs, and a run of really serious recalls. Management (or Miss Management, as the case may be) protects itself, is my point. Had Miss Management been better, perhaps the issues that lead to this failure might have been minimized or eliminated early on. I do not in any way defend unionized labor to the point that it destroys the industry it services. If it sounded that way, I am sorry for the misunderstanding. |
#14
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"Comboverfish" > wrote in message ups.com... > > C. E. White wrote: > > > Even Toyota is using Delphi parts. Are you saying we shouldn't rely on > > Toyota now because they are using Delphi parts? > > > > Ed > > I'm well aware of the Delco (mostly at time of manufacture) parts used > by Toyota. They are the parts that by and large have horrific failure > rates. Make of that what you will. > > Many chose not to believe that Delco(phi) products generally suck. Are > you one of them? I don't know my experience with Delco products has been limited. I had a Jensen-Healey that came with a European Delco alternator. It failed and parts were impossible to find. I replaced it with a Lucas alternator from a wrecked car (same mounts and pulley sizes). We converted an old farm tractor to 12V using a Delco alternator and it never gave us any problems. We had another farm tractor with a Delco generator (and I mean the old style with a commutator) - again trouble free for 30 years. I currently own a Saturn and haven't had any problems at all for the first 2 years and 38,000 miles. On the other hand I have heard horror stories about certain GM air conditioning compressors (R4?), and in general it seems that older GM alternators have a higher failure rate that others. But then the worst alternators I owned were on Japanese cars. The Toyota I owned ate alternators. You could pretty much guarantee that it would fail in August. My ex would usually have it fail while putting around town on a hundred degree day. Likewise, my SO had her Toyota eat an alternator. All things considered, based solely on personal experience and the experience of those close to me, I'd say most Delco stuff is about average as far as reliability goes. They have good parts and bad parts, just like most other part suppliers. I would hope that the vehicle manufacturer would require testing and quality control procedures sufficient to insure that the parts were of the required quality. Do you think Toyota allows Delphi to ship them lower quality parts than those they get from other suppliers? If so why? Politics, price, bad decision, delivery date, availability? I know both Visteon and Delphi have been trying hard to sell to the import brands with some success. Ed |
#15
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C. E. White wrote: But then the worst alternators I owned were > on Japanese cars. The Toyota I owned ate alternators. You could pretty much > guarantee that it would fail in August. My ex would usually have it fail > while putting around town on a hundred degree day. Likewise, my SO had her > Toyota eat an alternator. If these Toyotas were 90's era Corollas, they (mostly) used the small Delco CS alternator. They would fail in ~ 30k miles pretty regularly and would RARELY exceed 100k. If you were refering to Nippon Denso alternators (every model except Corolla), I can't see why you have experienced so much trouble with them. They are extremely hearty; a unit with 150k+ miles may come in occasionally in need of brushes but you will rarely see a regulator, rectifier set, or rotor/stator/bearing failure. This said, some of the newer ones circa 2000-up I *have* seen generate either a faint bearing noise or some sort of magnetic resonance induced whine on several fully loaded models. Replacement units under warranty fixed this complaint. I think they may be slightly underdesigned for the task these days. I think it is possible you are were experiencing repeat failure due to poor reman units. Yes, the aftermarket is full of junk remans, filled with crap regulator and rectifier parts. This is no knock on original ND alternators. ND alternators can use a set of brushes every 150k and ND starters can use a set of solenoid contacts every 100k. That's pretty reliable in my book. > Do you think Toyota allows Delphi to ship them lower quality parts than > those they get from other suppliers? If so why? Politics, price, bad > decision, delivery date, availability? I know both Visteon and Delphi have > been trying hard to sell to the import brands with some success. I think the Toyota procured Delco(phi) parts quality is the same as the Delco(phi) stuff used by everyone else. Delco(phi) has, however, proved inferior to the standard brands of comparable items that Toyota uses. In one unique case, Toyota bought the existing Delphi power sliding door system for their new 98 Sienna body. This is an feature that Toyota never had before and therefore was no "Toyota benchmark" for comparison. It turned out to be a POS system with failures of every mode and variety. It can't be proven that another manufacturer would have done better, but do you really think anyone could have done worse? In the case of the 84-87 Nova/Corolla, 88-92 Geo Prizm/Corolla, 93-97 Geo Prizm/Corolla, and 98-02 Chevy Prizm/Corolla, Toyota made the vehicles. GM only changed the name plates and various minor items such as trim, HVAC setup, and radios. I assume that, out of this long period of business transactions, the use of Delco alternators and Harrison radiators (both junk parts) on Corollas began. I also assume it was to save money. The Corolla has seemed like an overpriced economy car since the 1988 bodystyle IMO, and I think they wanted to reduce cost where possible to keep it competitive. Toyota MDT in MO |
#16
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On Thu, 13 Oct 2005, C. E. White wrote:
> On the other hand I have heard horror stories about certain GM air > conditioning compressors (R4?) Yep, R4s in particular -- you can't keep shaft seals in them. > and in general it seems that older GM alternators have a higher failure > rate that others. Naw, the *newer* GM alternators are the short-lived ones. |
#17
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"Comboverfish" > wrote in message ups.com... > If these Toyotas were 90's era Corollas, they (mostly) used the small > Delco CS alternator. They would fail in ~ 30k miles pretty regularly > and would RARELY exceed 100k. My problem alternator was on an '80's era Cressida. As long as my ex was working, we had no problems with the alternator. After she became a stay at home, she cooked it every summer. It was the internal regulator that failed. I never bought a remanufactured unit because no one stocked them. Only source was the local Toyota dealer. How maybe they were selling me crap, but I'd hope not (especially considering how much they cost). I blamed the failure on a combination of factors - 1) the alternator was in a horrible location - next to the exhaust manifold with very restricted air flow, 2) high electrical demands in the summer (A/C, lights, radio), 3) the alternator was undersized for electrical load, 4)after my ex quit work, she never drove the car on the highway. She was always putting around in stop and go traffic. The failures were always during the middle of a very hot day. After the third failure I took the alternator to a local rebuilder. He sold me the regulator and some thermal grease (much cheaper than buying a Toyota alternator). He indicated it was a common problem. Ed |
#18
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Delphi
Daniel J. Stern wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Oct 2005, C. E. White wrote: >> and in general it seems that older GM alternators have a higher failure >> rate that others. > > Naw, the *newer* GM alternators are the short-lived ones. I'm not going to take sides, but the voltage regulator built into the alternator in my '71 Grand Prix failed every week for nine weeks before they got me a decent one. There was nothing else wrong with my car; the parts dealers admitted GM was having a bad time with them. -- If John McCain gets the 2008 Republican Presidential nomination, my vote for President will be a write-in for Jiang Zemin. |
#19
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Delphi
On Sun, 16 Oct 2005, clifto wrote:
> I'm not going to take sides, but the voltage regulator built into the > alternator in my '71 Grand Prix failed every week for nine weeks Probably because it knew it didn't actually exist. The first year for internal regulators in GM Delco alternators was *1972*. > before they got me a decent one Who's "they"? |
#20
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Delphi
Daniel J. Stern wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Oct 2005, clifto wrote: >> I'm not going to take sides, but the voltage regulator built into the >> alternator in my '71 Grand Prix failed every week for nine weeks > > Probably because it knew it didn't actually exist. The first year for > internal regulators in GM Delco alternators was *1972*. I took the alternator apart to get the regulator out of it. I know it was there. I suggest you check your sources on that one. Believe me, there is precious little I will ever forget about that piece of crap automobile. >> before they got me a decent one > > Who's "they"? The parts store. It was probably under warranty, but I'd been fscked by the car dealer several times before this as regards the warranty, and I couldn't afford to let them keep it for a week or two while they diagnosed the problem and another week or two while they waited for parts (if indeed they found the problem instead of returning it to me broken, "no problem found"). -- If John McCain gets the 2008 Republican Presidential nomination, my vote for President will be a write-in for Jiang Zemin. |
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