5-20 oil

wrote:
> On Mon, 8 Aug 2005 19:39:23 -0700, Whoever >
> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>On Mon, 8 Aug 2005, wrote:
>>
>>>worth while on that engine for better cold flow, but a full synthetic
>>>is liable to cause you some un-necessary oil leaks. Those Mitsu
>>>engines are hard enough to keep dry on the outside with regular oil.
>>
>>I've read that the problems with fully synthetic oil leaking were only a
>>problem with early synthetics -- that they lacked the chemicals that cause
>>the seals to swell and hence keep the oil in -- and that this problem no
>>longer exists, since the formulations have changed.
>>
>> > >
>
> On a new engine that may be true - but when the rubber is already hard
> and it's just varnish and sludge keeping the oil in, it's a totally
> different story. Synth will get out where regular oil has stayed for
> years.

Another urban legend that refuses to die...

Matt

On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 00:50:20 GMT, Matt Whiting >
wrote:

wrote:
>> On Mon, 8 Aug 2005 19:39:23 -0700, Whoever >
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>On Mon, 8 Aug 2005, wrote:
>>>
>>>>worth while on that engine for better cold flow, but a full synthetic
>>>>is liable to cause you some un-necessary oil leaks. Those Mitsu
>>>>engines are hard enough to keep dry on the outside with regular oil.
>>>
>>>I've read that the problems with fully synthetic oil leaking were only a
>>>problem with early synthetics -- that they lacked the chemicals that cause
>>>the seals to swell and hence keep the oil in -- and that this problem no
>>>longer exists, since the formulations have changed.
>>>
>>> > >
>>
>> On a new engine that may be true - but when the rubber is already hard
>> and it's just varnish and sludge keeping the oil in, it's a totally
>> different story. Synth will get out where regular oil has stayed for
>> years.
>
>Another urban legend that refuses to die...
>
>Matt

Not an urban legend. The synthetic oil, over a short period of time,
disolves a lot of what the Dyno oil left behind. If that is all that
held the oil in, it WILL leak. And on a Mitsu 3.0, there are LOTS of
places to leak oil around thevalve gear in particular - but oil pan
gaskets and front seals as well.

Steve wrote:

> Bill Putney wrote:
>
>> Whoever wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, 8 Aug 2005, wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> worth while on that engine for better cold flow, but a full synthetic
>>>> is liable to cause you some un-necessary oil leaks. Those Mitsu
>>>> engines are hard enough to keep dry on the outside with regular oil.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I've read that the problems with fully synthetic oil leaking were
>>> only a problem with early synthetics -- that they lacked the
>>> chemicals that cause the seals to swell and hence keep the oil in --
>>> and that this problem no longer exists, since the formulations have
>>> changed.
>>>
>>> > >
>>
>>
>>
>> I recall reading that full synthetic are more prone to piston scuffing
>> than a blend.
>>
>
> I recall reading some things about tooth fairies, winged horses with
> horns, and Paul Bunyan too.
>
> :-)

So you're saying that there are no technical reasons to use a blend?
That the only reason is to incrementally cut the cost of the oil and on
the process knowingly dilute some fo the benefits of the synthetic oil?

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')

wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 00:50:20 GMT, Matt Whiting >
> wrote:
>
>
wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 8 Aug 2005 19:39:23 -0700, Whoever >
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>On Mon, 8 Aug 2005, wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>worth while on that engine for better cold flow, but a full synthetic
>>>>>is liable to cause you some un-necessary oil leaks. Those Mitsu
>>>>>engines are hard enough to keep dry on the outside with regular oil.
>>>>
>>>>I've read that the problems with fully synthetic oil leaking were only a
>>>>problem with early synthetics -- that they lacked the chemicals that cause
>>>>the seals to swell and hence keep the oil in -- and that this problem no
>>>>longer exists, since the formulations have changed.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>On a new engine that may be true - but when the rubber is already hard
>>>and it's just varnish and sludge keeping the oil in, it's a totally
>>>different story. Synth will get out where regular oil has stayed for
>>>years.
>>
>>Another urban legend that refuses to die...
>>
>>Matt
>
>
> Not an urban legend. The synthetic oil, over a short period of time,
> disolves a lot of what the Dyno oil left behind. If that is all that
> held the oil in, it WILL leak. And on a Mitsu 3.0, there are LOTS of
> places to leak oil around thevalve gear in particular - but oil pan
> gaskets and front seals as well.

I've heard that "dissolves everything" legend as well. I've never seen
any real data to back this up, and I've put synthetic in a couple of
engines with more than 50K on them with no problems. I think both are
urban legends. People make a change and something happens (a leak) and
human nature is to imply cause and effect to what is likely just a
simple correlation.


Matt

Matt Whiting wrote:

> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 00:50:20 GMT, Matt Whiting >
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 8 Aug 2005 19:39:23 -0700, Whoever >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 8 Aug 2005, wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> worth while on that engine for better cold flow, but a full synthetic
>>>>>> is liable to cause you some un-necessary oil leaks. Those Mitsu
>>>>>> engines are hard enough to keep dry on the outside with regular oil.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I've read that the problems with fully synthetic oil leaking were
>>>>> only a problem with early synthetics -- that they lacked the
>>>>> chemicals that cause the seals to swell and hence keep the oil in
>>>>> -- and that this problem no longer exists, since the formulations
>>>>> have changed.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> On a new engine that may be true - but when the rubber is already hard
>>>> and it's just varnish and sludge keeping the oil in, it's a totally
>>>> different story. Synth will get out where regular oil has stayed for
>>>> years.
>>>
>>>
>>> Another urban legend that refuses to die...
>>>
>>> Matt
>>
>>
>>
>> Not an urban legend. The synthetic oil, over a short period of time,
>> disolves a lot of what the Dyno oil left behind. If that is all that
>> held the oil in, it WILL leak. And on a Mitsu 3.0, there are LOTS of
>> places to leak oil around thevalve gear in particular - but oil pan
>> gaskets and front seals as well.
>
>
> I've heard that "dissolves everything" legend as well. I've never seen
> any real data to back this up, and I've put synthetic in a couple of
> engines with more than 50K on them with no problems. I think both are
> urban legends. People make a change and something happens (a leak) and
> human nature is to imply cause and effect to what is likely just a
> simple correlation.

I see too many posts on any given week on the LH car forums where
someone has just switched over to synth and now suddenly has serious
problems. One or two a year might be coincidence. 2 a week is not
coincidence.

I also personally experienced it on a high mileage Subaru that I
switched over to synth suddenly. The synth definitely loosened up crap
that got into the lifters. The timing of the onset and what I had to do
to resolve it proved it (to me) in that one case.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')

You are a condescending jackass. Stop being such a jerk to everyone in
this forum and go start your own, of you don't like what's being said
here. OK?




On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 19:59:37 -0400, "Daniel J. Stern"
> wrote:

>On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 wrote:
>
>> Is 5-20w now the recommended oil for the 3.3/3.8? My 1993 3.3 calls for
>> 5-30.
>
>Somethin' in the air today that's causing confusion amongst "past",
>"present" and "future"?
>
>5w20 is being recommended by lots of automakers in their North
>American-market vehicles for fuel economy certification reasons. The same
>engines in the same cars often call for 5w30 in other markets. This does
>not mean older vehicles should be switched to 5w20.

On Wed, 10 Aug 2005, Bob wrote:

> You are a condescending jackass.

And yet you obviously continue to read my posts. You must like 'em more
than you let on.

> Stop being such a jerk to everyone in this forum and go start your own,

I've been here for well over a decade, and I don't guess I'm going away
anytime soon. You're welcome to cease reading my posts, unless there's
somebody you haven't mentioned who's forcing you to read them.

x-no-archive: yes
Bob wrote:

> You are a condescending jackass. Stop being such a jerk to everyone in
> this forum and go start your own, of you don't like what's being said
> here. OK?

Only a "condescending jackass" would presume to instruct others to go
start a "forum." I've learned a lot from Stern's posts, and I suspect
others have too. If *YOU* don't like what's being said here, why don't
*YOU* take your own advice and start a "forum."


ps. you top posted.

wrote:

>>I've read that the problems with fully synthetic oil leaking were only a
>>problem with early synthetics -- that they lacked the chemicals that cause
>>the seals to swell and hence keep the oil in -- and that this problem no
>>longer exists, since the formulations have changed.
>>
>> > >
>
> On a new engine that may be true - but when the rubber is already hard
> and it's just varnish and sludge keeping the oil in, it's a totally
> different story. Synth will get out where regular oil has stayed for
> years.


Urban legend. "Sludge and varnish" never keep the oil in.

Bill Putney wrote:

> Steve wrote:
>
>> Bill Putney wrote:
>>
>>> Whoever wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, 8 Aug 2005, wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> worth while on that engine for better cold flow, but a full synthetic
>>>>> is liable to cause you some un-necessary oil leaks. Those Mitsu
>>>>> engines are hard enough to keep dry on the outside with regular oil.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I've read that the problems with fully synthetic oil leaking were
>>>> only a problem with early synthetics -- that they lacked the
>>>> chemicals that cause the seals to swell and hence keep the oil in --
>>>> and that this problem no longer exists, since the formulations have
>>>> changed.
>>>>
>>>> > >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I recall reading that full synthetic are more prone to piston
>>> scuffing than a blend.
>>>
>>
>> I recall reading some things about tooth fairies, winged horses with
>> horns, and Paul Bunyan too.
>>
>> :-)
>
>
> So you're saying that there are no technical reasons to use a blend?
> That the only reason is to incrementally cut the cost of the oil and on
> the process knowingly dilute some fo the benefits of the synthetic oil?

I was really saying that the piston scuffing claim is bogus. Blends are
fine, if cost is a driving factor. And to be honest there are blends
(and straight non-synthetics) out there now that turn in oil-analysis
numbers that are very competitive with pure synthetics. But given that I
like to keep cars 10-20 years (or more), I believe that picking a name
synthetic and sticking with it gives better long-term assurance of a
good oil without constantly hanging around the internet to see how
various formulas have changed this week versus last month.