If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#51
|
|||
|
|||
On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 09:17:42 -0500, Steve > wrote:
wrote: > >>>I've read that the problems with fully synthetic oil leaking were only a >>>problem with early synthetics -- that they lacked the chemicals that cause >>>the seals to swell and hence keep the oil in -- and that this problem no >>>longer exists, since the formulations have changed. >>> >>> > > >> >> On a new engine that may be true - but when the rubber is already hard >> and it's just varnish and sludge keeping the oil in, it's a totally >> different story. Synth will get out where regular oil has stayed for >> years. > > >Urban legend. "Sludge and varnish" never keep the oil in. And you are a mechanic?? |
Ads |
#52
|
|||
|
|||
|
#54
|
|||
|
|||
On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 10:49:25 -0500, Steve > wrote:
wrote: > >> On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 09:17:42 -0500, Steve > wrote: >> >> wrote: >>> >>> >>>>>I've read that the problems with fully synthetic oil leaking were only a >>>>>problem with early synthetics -- that they lacked the chemicals that cause >>>>>the seals to swell and hence keep the oil in -- and that this problem no >>>>>longer exists, since the formulations have changed. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>On a new engine that may be true - but when the rubber is already hard >>>>and it's just varnish and sludge keeping the oil in, it's a totally >>>>different story. Synth will get out where regular oil has stayed for >>>>years. >>> >>> >>>Urban legend. "Sludge and varnish" never keep the oil in. >> >> And you are a mechanic?? > >No I'm not. But I am an engineer. Figures. Get your hands dirty before you start talking about things you know nothing about. > >Why do you presume to think that "sludge and varnish," which form at >random and have no structural strength of any significant sort, can >actually form a working seal? No presumption at all on my part. 35 years of experience as a mechanic. Have you ever attempted to remove a few years accumulation of sludge and varnish from an engine? It can block up oil galleries so tight that 60PSI of oil pressure cannot force any oil through. And it takes a whole lot more than a toothbrush to remove it. Try a chisel. |
#55
|
|||
|
|||
Bill Putney wrote:
> Steve wrote: > >> wrote: >> >>> On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 09:17:42 -0500, Steve > wrote: >>> >>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>> I've read that the problems with fully synthetic oil leaking were >>>>>> only a problem with early synthetics -- that they lacked the >>>>>> chemicals that cause the seals to swell and hence keep the oil in >>>>>> -- and that this problem no longer exists, since the formulations >>>>>> have changed. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> On a new engine that may be true - but when the rubber is already hard >>>>> and it's just varnish and sludge keeping the oil in, it's a totally >>>>> different story. Synth will get out where regular oil has stayed for >>>>> years. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Urban legend. "Sludge and varnish" never keep the oil in. >>> >>> >>> >>> And you are a mechanic?? >> >> >> >> No I'm not. But I am an engineer. >> >> Why do you presume to think that "sludge and varnish," which form at >> random and have no structural strength of any significant sort, can >> actually form a working seal? > > > I don't know, Steve. I *vividly* remember the one and only time I used > a sudden-flush (kerosene commercial-type flush - came in a quart can) on > a high mileage engine. It was a 1980 Chebby Citation V-6 - the rear > crank seal was the rope-type (not rubber). Before the flush, there were > no leaks. Immediately after the flush - and I mean 5 minutes after the > flush when fresh oil was put in - I laid under the engine with it > running and watched oil streaming out of the rear seal. I have to > believe that the interstices of the rope were sealed up with residue, > and that residue was dissloved away by the flush. A rubber seal isn't > going to have the interstices, but there is that interface between the > seal and the shaft. Now - there's no way an intact soft, non-swolled or > shrunken rubber seal is going to leak, but I could see a special case > where a seal was hard and barely sealing, and a little residue could > make the difference between slight seepage, and steady drip or stream > leakage. OK, I'll admit that I can see how a rope-type seal *might* work that way. But even in that case, my hunch is that the "quick flush" spoo probably attacked the seal directly, not any embedded gunk in it. |
#56
|
|||
|
|||
|
#57
|
|||
|
|||
Because this is the very stuff of usenet:-
- assumptions - making bold (and bald) statements grounded in the shifting sands of supposition and vague recollection - being all-knowing - rudeness (incl swearing and offensiveness). But one can still get decent info and have civilised discussions. DAS For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling --- "Steve" > wrote in message ... [...] >> nothing about. > > I don't know you, so I won't brag that I've been inside 5 times as many > engines as you have. So why do you ASSume you've been inside more engines > than I have? Or that I never "get my hands dirty." [...] |
#58
|
|||
|
|||
Bill Putney wrote:
> Steve wrote: > >> wrote: >> >>> On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 09:17:42 -0500, Steve > wrote: >>> >>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>> I've read that the problems with fully synthetic oil leaking were >>>>>> only a problem with early synthetics -- that they lacked the >>>>>> chemicals that cause the seals to swell and hence keep the oil in >>>>>> -- and that this problem no longer exists, since the formulations >>>>>> have changed. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> On a new engine that may be true - but when the rubber is already hard >>>>> and it's just varnish and sludge keeping the oil in, it's a totally >>>>> different story. Synth will get out where regular oil has stayed for >>>>> years. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Urban legend. "Sludge and varnish" never keep the oil in. >>> >>> >>> >>> And you are a mechanic?? >> >> >> >> No I'm not. But I am an engineer. >> >> Why do you presume to think that "sludge and varnish," which form at >> random and have no structural strength of any significant sort, can >> actually form a working seal? > > > I don't know, Steve. I *vividly* remember the one and only time I used > a sudden-flush (kerosene commercial-type flush - came in a quart can) on > a high mileage engine. It was a 1980 Chebby Citation V-6 - the rear > crank seal was the rope-type (not rubber). Before the flush, there were > no leaks. Immediately after the flush - and I mean 5 minutes after the > flush when fresh oil was put in - I laid under the engine with it > running and watched oil streaming out of the rear seal. I have to > believe that the interstices of the rope were sealed up with residue, > and that residue was dissloved away by the flush. A rubber seal isn't > going to have the interstices, but there is that interface between the > seal and the shaft. Now - there's no way an intact soft, non-swolled or > shrunken rubber seal is going to leak, but I could see a special case > where a seal was hard and barely sealing, and a little residue could > make the difference between slight seepage, and steady drip or stream > leakage. Couldn't have been that the flushing brew ruined a seal or two... No, that could never happen... Matt |
#59
|
|||
|
|||
|
#60
|
|||
|
|||
Matt Whiting wrote:
> Bill Putney wrote: >> >> I don't know, Steve. I *vividly* remember the one and only time I >> used a sudden-flush (kerosene commercial-type flush - came in a quart >> can) on a high mileage engine. It was a 1980 Chebby Citation V-6 - >> the rear crank seal was the rope-type (not rubber). Before the flush, >> there were no leaks. Immediately after the flush - and I mean 5 >> minutes after the flush when fresh oil was put in - I laid under the >> engine with it running and watched oil streaming out of the rear >> seal. I have to believe that the interstices of the rope were sealed >> up with residue, and that residue was dissloved away by the flush. A >> rubber seal isn't going to have the interstices, but there is that >> interface between the seal and the shaft. Now - there's no way an >> intact soft, non-swolled or shrunken rubber seal is going to leak, but >> I could see a special case where a seal was hard and barely sealing, >> and a little residue could make the difference between slight seepage, >> and steady drip or stream leakage. > > > Couldn't have been that the flushing brew ruined a seal or two... No, > that could never happen... Nor would it ever happen that residue/"gunk" embedded in the seal was dissolved away? I could easily picture semi-liquid/semi flexible residue, over time, slightly displacing the seal where it met the crankshaft, and then when dissolved/washed away by the flush, there is a nice new gap between seal and shaft that previously was filled with the residue without doing much at all to the seal itself. Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x') |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|