'91 Integra: shifting getting hard to do...

....so I finally got the clutch replaced. No I didn't do it myself. Too
cold, too snowy. No garage.

The clutch was not slipping, but it was randomly getting very hard to
change gears. Sometimes easy, sometimes hard. My tech at first guessed it
might be a sliver of spring-retainer broken off and floating around inside
somewhere, preventing the clutch from disengaging.

Well he got it apart, and it turned out that even though there *was* lots
of wear in the spring retainers, that wasn't the problem. The problem was
that after 15 years, there was no grease on the input shaft any more. No
grease means rust, so the friction disc was not sliding freely on the input
shaft when I pushed the pedal, and thus sometimes not quite disengaging.
The splines were bright orange with gritty rust.

The pressure plate side was down to the rivets, and the flywheel side had
maybe a few thou before it too hit the rivets. My tech figures I *might*
have got 5-10K more out of it, but then it would have started slipping for
sure.

It's amazing. I originally thought the synchros were worn, but the tranny
shifts (almost) slick as butter with the new clutch. Gonna have to get used
to the pedal feel. It's now so light that it throws off my timing. The new
clutch is a lot less grabby, too.

I'll post pics of the friction disc later this week.


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

"TeGGeR®" > wrote in
:

<snip>


> The pressure plate side was down to the rivets, and the flywheel side
> had maybe a few thou before it too hit the rivets. My tech figures I
> *might* have got 5-10K more out of it, but then it would have started
> slipping for sure.



Oh, I almost forgot: Mileage on replacement of the (original) clutch
was 255,800. Yes that's miles.



--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

On 15 Dec 2005 03:49:01 GMT, "TeGGeR®" > wrote:

>"TeGGeR®" > wrote in
:
>
><snip>
>
>
>> The pressure plate side was down to the rivets, and the flywheel side
>> had maybe a few thou before it too hit the rivets. My tech figures I
>> *might* have got 5-10K more out of it, but then it would have started
>> slipping for sure.
>
>
>
>Oh, I almost forgot: Mileage on replacement of the (original) clutch
>was 255,800. Yes that's miles.


Now that's getting some mileage out of a clutch! Are they mostly
highway miles?

I changed my '90 accord last year at 150K miles. changed it
preemptively. mechanic tried to talk me out of it because it had not
started to slip yet, but car was going off to college and I did not
want to deal with it if it went bad away from home. When he got it
out he said I must have been clairvoyant. Showed me the disk and we
agreed I would not have gotten 5K out of it, less if all around town
driving.

Frank

"Frank Boettcher" > wrote
> On 15 Dec 2005 03:49:01 GMT, "TeGGeR®" >
wrote:
> >"TeGGeR®" > wrote
> ><snip>
> >
> >
> >> The pressure plate side was down to the rivets, and the
flywheel side
> >> had maybe a few thou before it too hit the rivets. My
tech figures I
> >> *might* have got 5-10K more out of it, but then it
would have started
> >> slipping for sure.
> >
> >
> >
> >Oh, I almost forgot: Mileage on replacement of the
(original) clutch
> >was 255,800. Yes that's miles.
>
>
> Now that's getting some mileage out of a clutch! Are they
mostly
> highway miles?
>
> I changed my '90 accord last year at 150K miles. changed
it
> preemptively. mechanic tried to talk me out of it because
it had not
> started to slip yet, but car was going off to college and
I did not
> want to deal with it if it went bad away from home. When
he got it
> out he said I must have been clairvoyant. Showed me the
disk and we
> agreed I would not have gotten 5K out of it, less if all
around town
> driving.

Frank, how long did this job take you? Also, do you consider
this a beginner, intermediate, advanced, or other type job?

Tegger, I'll be looking for that photo at your site. How
much did your mechanic charge?

On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 21:46:02 GMT, "Elle" >
wrote:

>"Frank Boettcher" > wrote
>> On 15 Dec 2005 03:49:01 GMT, "TeGGeR®" >
>wrote:
>> >"TeGGeR®" > wrote
>> ><snip>
>> >
>> >
>> >> The pressure plate side was down to the rivets, and the
>flywheel side
>> >> had maybe a few thou before it too hit the rivets. My
>tech figures I
>> >> *might* have got 5-10K more out of it, but then it
>would have started
>> >> slipping for sure.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Oh, I almost forgot: Mileage on replacement of the
>(original) clutch
>> >was 255,800. Yes that's miles.
>>
>>
>> Now that's getting some mileage out of a clutch! Are they
>mostly
>> highway miles?
>>
>> I changed my '90 accord last year at 150K miles. changed
>it
>> preemptively. mechanic tried to talk me out of it because
>it had not
>> started to slip yet, but car was going off to college and
>I did not
>> want to deal with it if it went bad away from home. When
>he got it
>> out he said I must have been clairvoyant. Showed me the
>disk and we
>> agreed I would not have gotten 5K out of it, less if all
>around town
>> driving.
>
>Frank, how long did this job take you? Also, do you consider
>this a beginner, intermediate, advanced, or other type job?

I did not do this one myself. Didn't have time. I've done several
clutch replacements but all on RWD vehicles, much different than FWD,
transverse engine mount. On the RWD, I would rate the job moderately
difficult, not for a beginner. Would be curious to have someone who
has done both to comment on which most difficult.

Mechanic charged me $520 parts and labor to do the Honda.

Frank

>
>Tegger, I'll be looking for that photo at your site. How
>much did your mechanic charge?
>

Frank Boettcher > wrote in
:

> On 15 Dec 2005 03:49:01 GMT, "TeGGeR®" > wrote:
>
>>"TeGGeR®" > wrote in
:
>>
>><snip>
>>
>>
>>> The pressure plate side was down to the rivets, and the flywheel side
>>> had maybe a few thou before it too hit the rivets. My tech figures I
>>> *might* have got 5-10K more out of it, but then it would have started
>>> slipping for sure.
>>
>>
>>
>>Oh, I almost forgot: Mileage on replacement of the (original) clutch
>>was 255,800. Yes that's miles.
>
>
> Now that's getting some mileage out of a clutch! Are they mostly
> highway miles?



Yes, about 80-90% for the last ten years, but a mix of city and highway
before that.

I'm still having trouble getting used to the lightness of the pedal. The
over-center feeling doesn't help. The clutch now feels like the one in my
sister's Civic, which is almost new.


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

"Elle" > wrote in
k.net:


>
> Tegger, I'll be looking for that photo at your site.



Once I get my hands on that disc...



> How much did your mechanic charge?



Here's a complete rundown (Canadian dollars):
Labor: $368
Parts:
22200-PR3-030 Clutch disc $118.74
22300-P30-030 Clutch cover $252.52
22810-PS1-015 Release bearing $63.59
91006-P10-000 Pilot bearing $12.98
91214-PLE-003 Oil seal $23.50
08798-9016C Honda MTL transmission fluid $13.68

Total before taxes: $853.01

Apparently the pressure plate used to be $150, but Honda bumped the price
to $252 a while back.


(Current Cdn/US exchange is $1 Cdn = $0.864 US)


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

"TeGGeR®" > wrote
> Here's a complete rundown (Canadian dollars):
> Labor: $368
> Parts:
> 22200-PR3-030 Clutch disc $118.74
> 22300-P30-030 Clutch cover $252.52
> 22810-PS1-015 Release bearing $63.59
> 91006-P10-000 Pilot bearing $12.98
> 91214-PLE-003 Oil seal $23.50
> 08798-9016C Honda MTL transmission fluid $13.68
>
> Total before taxes: $853.01
>
> Apparently the pressure plate used to be $150, but Honda
bumped the price
> to $252 a while back.
>
>
> (Current Cdn/US exchange is $1 Cdn = $0.864 US)

Thanks. That's good history, altogether. Interesting to
follow.

On 16 Dec 2005 04:14:51 GMT, "TeGGeR®" > wrote:

>Frank Boettcher > wrote in
:
>
>> On 15 Dec 2005 03:49:01 GMT, "TeGGeR®" > wrote:
>>
>>>"TeGGeR®" > wrote in
:
>>>
>>><snip>
>>>
>>>
>>>> The pressure plate side was down to the rivets, and the flywheel side
>>>> had maybe a few thou before it too hit the rivets. My tech figures I
>>>> *might* have got 5-10K more out of it, but then it would have started
>>>> slipping for sure.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Oh, I almost forgot: Mileage on replacement of the (original) clutch
>>>was 255,800. Yes that's miles.
>>
>>
>> Now that's getting some mileage out of a clutch! Are they mostly
>> highway miles?
>
>
>
>Yes, about 80-90% for the last ten years, but a mix of city and highway
>before that.
>
>I'm still having trouble getting used to the lightness of the pedal. The
>over-center feeling doesn't help. The clutch now feels like the one in my
>sister's Civic, which is almost new.


I hear that. Kind of like the first time I drove a car with a
hydraulic actuated clutch after driving all those mechanical link
spring return cars. about put my foot through the floor board until I
got used to it.

Frank

TeGGeR® wrote:

> "TeGGeR®" > wrote in
> :
>
> <snip>
>
>
>>The pressure plate side was down to the rivets, and the flywheel side
>>had maybe a few thou before it too hit the rivets. My tech figures I
>>*might* have got 5-10K more out of it, but then it would have started
>>slipping for sure.
>
>
>
>
> Oh, I almost forgot: Mileage on replacement of the (original) clutch
> was 255,800. Yes that's miles.
>
>
>

I got 185,000 in my CRX, thought that was good. Wow.