This is the USA interstate system (how does the UK system work?)

On Tuesday, March 17, 2015 at 12:34:40 PM UTC-5, Mike Barnes wrote:
> Ashton Crusher wrote:
> > On Tue, 10 Mar 2015 19:08:08 +0000, Mike Barnes
> > > wrote:
> >
> >> JNugent wrote:
> >>> On 09/03/2015 23:57, Adair Bordon wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> This is the USA interstate system (how does the UK system work?)
> >>>
> >>> [ snip USA Interstate explanation ]
> >>>
> >>>> This is the USA interstate system (how does the UK system work?)
> >>>
> >>> The basic Great Britain (not UK) all-purpose road-numbering system
> >>> (originating during the 1920s) works on the basis of six routes
> >>> radiating from London plus three in Scotland.
> >>>
> >>> [snip explanation]
> >>
> >> An important difference - I've seen many roads signed with two numbers
> >> in the USA, but none in the UK. I believe that's because in the USA they
> >> number routes, rather than roads, and two routes can share the same road.
> >
> > I think what you are seeing is a reflection of how the UK road system
> > was always pretty much a national system since the entirely of the UK
> > isn't really all the big. In the US by comparison, the land area is
> > much larger AND almost all the highways originally were State
> > Highways, not "federal" highways. So the states created their own
> > numbering systems within the state. Then the feds started getting
> > involved and created the US highway system which mostly overlaid the
> > existing state highway systems. That allowed there to be a continuous
> > US 60 that went from the east to the west coast and be "named" the
> > same, US60, all along the way even though in one state it might be
> > State Highway 12 and in the next state it would be State Highway 54.
> > Because the US route might cover more then one State Highway, even
> > within a single state, it was usually not possible to simply renumber
> > the state highway in the state to simply match the Federal number. The
> > interstate, while more organized in it's numbering system (North-south
> > routes are always odd numbers, etc) still often overlaid existing
> > state highways and multiple state highways so the same issues
> > remained.
>
> I get that - thanks - and much the same situation exists in Europe with
> the "E" road numbers which are largely superimposed on national
> networks. In the UK there are some "E" road numbers but they don't
> appear on signs.
>
> But what I actually had in mind was two numbers from the same authority
> (e.g. two state route numbers) on the same stretch of road.
>
> --
> Mike Barnes
> Cheshire, England

Road signs in Ireland. Gaelic spelling and also English spelling.

On Tue, 17 Mar 2015 17:33:56 +0000, Mike Barnes
> wrote:

>Ashton Crusher wrote:
>> On Tue, 10 Mar 2015 19:08:08 +0000, Mike Barnes
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> JNugent wrote:
>>>> On 09/03/2015 23:57, Adair Bordon wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> This is the USA interstate system (how does the UK system work?)
>>>>
>>>> [ snip USA Interstate explanation ]
>>>>
>>>>> This is the USA interstate system (how does the UK system work?)
>>>>
>>>> The basic Great Britain (not UK) all-purpose road-numbering system
>>>> (originating during the 1920s) works on the basis of six routes
>>>> radiating from London plus three in Scotland.
>>>>
>>>> [snip explanation]
>>>
>>> An important difference - I've seen many roads signed with two numbers
>>> in the USA, but none in the UK. I believe that's because in the USA they
>>> number routes, rather than roads, and two routes can share the same road.
>>
>> I think what you are seeing is a reflection of how the UK road system
>> was always pretty much a national system since the entirely of the UK
>> isn't really all the big. In the US by comparison, the land area is
>> much larger AND almost all the highways originally were State
>> Highways, not "federal" highways. So the states created their own
>> numbering systems within the state. Then the feds started getting
>> involved and created the US highway system which mostly overlaid the
>> existing state highway systems. That allowed there to be a continuous
>> US 60 that went from the east to the west coast and be "named" the
>> same, US60, all along the way even though in one state it might be
>> State Highway 12 and in the next state it would be State Highway 54.
>> Because the US route might cover more then one State Highway, even
>> within a single state, it was usually not possible to simply renumber
>> the state highway in the state to simply match the Federal number. The
>> interstate, while more organized in it's numbering system (North-south
>> routes are always odd numbers, etc) still often overlaid existing
>> state highways and multiple state highways so the same issues
>> remained.
>
>I get that - thanks - and much the same situation exists in Europe with
>the "E" road numbers which are largely superimposed on national
>networks. In the UK there are some "E" road numbers but they don't
>appear on signs.
>
>But what I actually had in mind was two numbers from the same authority
>(e.g. two state route numbers) on the same stretch of road.

Oh, that's an easy one.. Basically it's called "route continuity".
Over time some old highways, or more commonly parts of old highways,
get abandoned and physically drop off the system. This might be
because an entire new highway is built and it's close enough in some
areas that the two highways, the old one that's being abandoned, and
the new one can be combined into a single highway for some distance.
But people who start their trip out of town on the still existing part
of the old highway find it a lot easier to just follow the signs for
that old highway number even where it "no longer exists". So they
stick it's number up on the stretch of new highway that has replaced
it. And the old highway might still exist 100 miles farther on and
separate from that new highway. So you could have old highway 50 and
new highway 70 with parts of new highway 70 also signed as highway 50
so that highway 50 is still a "continuously signed route". It's a lot
easier to explain with a drawing on a piece of paper. I've seen
places where one physical highway carries route designations for 3 or
more routes I-10/US60/US70/SR93.

Ashton Crusher wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Mar 2015 17:33:56 +0000, Mike Barnes
> > wrote:
>
>> Ashton Crusher wrote:
>>> On Tue, 10 Mar 2015 19:08:08 +0000, Mike Barnes
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> JNugent wrote:
>>>>> On 09/03/2015 23:57, Adair Bordon wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> This is the USA interstate system (how does the UK system work?)
>>>>>
>>>>> [ snip USA Interstate explanation ]
>>>>>
>>>>>> This is the USA interstate system (how does the UK system work?)
>>>>>
>>>>> The basic Great Britain (not UK) all-purpose road-numbering system
>>>>> (originating during the 1920s) works on the basis of six routes
>>>>> radiating from London plus three in Scotland.
>>>>>
>>>>> [snip explanation]
>>>>
>>>> An important difference - I've seen many roads signed with two numbers
>>>> in the USA, but none in the UK. I believe that's because in the USA they
>>>> number routes, rather than roads, and two routes can share the same road.
>>>
>>> I think what you are seeing is a reflection of how the UK road system
>>> was always pretty much a national system since the entirely of the UK
>>> isn't really all the big. In the US by comparison, the land area is
>>> much larger AND almost all the highways originally were State
>>> Highways, not "federal" highways. So the states created their own
>>> numbering systems within the state. Then the feds started getting
>>> involved and created the US highway system which mostly overlaid the
>>> existing state highway systems. That allowed there to be a continuous
>>> US 60 that went from the east to the west coast and be "named" the
>>> same, US60, all along the way even though in one state it might be
>>> State Highway 12 and in the next state it would be State Highway 54.
>>> Because the US route might cover more then one State Highway, even
>>> within a single state, it was usually not possible to simply renumber
>>> the state highway in the state to simply match the Federal number. The
>>> interstate, while more organized in it's numbering system (North-south
>>> routes are always odd numbers, etc) still often overlaid existing
>>> state highways and multiple state highways so the same issues
>>> remained.
>>
>> I get that - thanks - and much the same situation exists in Europe with
>> the "E" road numbers which are largely superimposed on national
>> networks. In the UK there are some "E" road numbers but they don't
>> appear on signs.
>>
>> But what I actually had in mind was two numbers from the same authority
>> (e.g. two state route numbers) on the same stretch of road.
>
> Oh, that's an easy one.. Basically it's called "route continuity".
> Over time some old highways, or more commonly parts of old highways,
> get abandoned and physically drop off the system. This might be
> because an entire new highway is built and it's close enough in some
> areas that the two highways, the old one that's being abandoned, and
> the new one can be combined into a single highway for some distance.
> But people who start their trip out of town on the still existing part
> of the old highway find it a lot easier to just follow the signs for
> that old highway number even where it "no longer exists". So they
> stick it's number up on the stretch of new highway that has replaced
> it. And the old highway might still exist 100 miles farther on and
> separate from that new highway. So you could have old highway 50 and
> new highway 70 with parts of new highway 70 also signed as highway 50
> so that highway 50 is still a "continuously signed route". It's a lot
> easier to explain with a drawing on a piece of paper. I've seen
> places where one physical highway carries route designations for 3 or
> more routes I-10/US60/US70/SR93.

Yes, great idea.

But in answer to the OP's question, they *never* do that over here.

--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England

On 17/03/2015 04:00, Ashton Crusher wrote:

> Mike Barnes > wrote:
>> JNugent wrote:
>>> On 09/03/2015 23:57, Adair Bordon wrote:
>
>>>> This is the USA interstate system (how does the UK system work?)
>
>>> [ snip USA Interstate explanation ]
>
>>>> This is the USA interstate system (how does the UK system work?)
>
>>> The basic Great Britain (not UK) all-purpose road-numbering system
>>> (originating during the 1920s) works on the basis of six routes
>>> radiating from London plus three in Scotland.
>
>>> [snip explanation]
>
>> An important difference - I've seen many roads signed with two numbers
>> in the USA, but none in the UK. I believe that's because in the USA they
>> number routes, rather than roads, and two routes can share the same road.
>
> I think what you are seeing is a reflection of how the UK road system
> was always pretty much a national system since the entirely of the UK
> isn't really all the big. In the US by comparison, the land area is
> much larger AND almost all the highways originally were State
> Highways, not "federal" highways. So the states created their own
> numbering systems within the state. Then the feds started getting
> involved and created the US highway system which mostly overlaid the
> existing state highway systems. That allowed there to be a continuous
> US 60 that went from the east to the west coast and be "named" the
> same, US60, all along the way even though in one state it might be
> State Highway 12 and in the next state it would be State Highway 54.
> Because the US route might cover more then one State Highway, even
> within a single state, it was usually not possible to simply renumber
> the state highway in the state to simply match the Federal number. The
> interstate, while more organized in it's numbering system (North-south
> routes are always odd numbers, etc) still often overlaid existing
> state highways and multiple state highways so the same issues
> remained.

Thanks - a good explanation. It also could double as an explanation of
how Europe's "E-routes" are overlaid onto the highway network of each
country, with the result that many major routes carry the E designation
and number as well as the national highway identifier of the country
concerned.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_E-road_network>