traction control (Cavalier)

'04 Cavalier
A few times, going up a hill that was a little slick with packed snow,
it seemed like I got no response when I gave it more throttle. The
"low track" light was on, so I assume this was traction control in
action.

My question is, whether this is always a good thing. I've been
driving in snow for a long time (not that that means I'm doing it
right); my intuition is that, even if the wheels are slipping,
sometimes more throttle can help keep you moving and in control.

Am I just wrong? It wouldn't be the first time.

wrote:
> '04 Cavalier
> A few times, going up a hill that was a little slick with packed snow,
> it seemed like I got no response when I gave it more throttle. The
> "low track" light was on, so I assume this was traction control in
> action.
>
> My question is, whether this is always a good thing. I've been
> driving in snow for a long time (not that that means I'm doing it
> right); my intuition is that, even if the wheels are slipping,
> sometimes more throttle can help keep you moving and in control.
>
> Am I just wrong? It wouldn't be the first time.

Welcome to the wonderful world of computer controlled driving. Traction
control is one of the stupidest things to ever have on a street vehicle.

Basically the system works by sensing slip and applying the brakes to
the slipping wheel. So you're going up a slight incline in snow. Right
front slips, brakes pulse to slow the wheel till it gets traction, then
the left slips and the process repeats. All the while the vehicle is
losing momentum and you stop on an incline that you have driven up
hundreds of times. The systems were so bad on some vehicles that you
couldn't drive up a wet incline, let alone one that was actually slippery.

So what does the government do? Require it on all new vehicles, along
with tire pressure monitors and ABS. BUT it's perfectly fine that the
makers install all of the crap to "connect" your phone, laptop and
whatever else so you can really practice distracted driving...

--
Steve W.

On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 17:42:47 -0500, "Steve W." >
wrote:

wrote:
>> '04 Cavalier
>> A few times, going up a hill that was a little slick with packed snow,
>> it seemed like I got no response when I gave it more throttle. The
>> "low track" light was on, so I assume this was traction control in
>> action.
>>
>> My question is, whether this is always a good thing. I've been
>> driving in snow for a long time (not that that means I'm doing it
>> right); my intuition is that, even if the wheels are slipping,
>> sometimes more throttle can help keep you moving and in control.
>>
>> Am I just wrong? It wouldn't be the first time.
>
>Welcome to the wonderful world of computer controlled driving. Traction
>control is one of the stupidest things to ever have on a street vehicle.
>
>Basically the system works by sensing slip and applying the brakes to
>the slipping wheel. So you're going up a slight incline in snow. Right
>front slips, brakes pulse to slow the wheel till it gets traction, then
>the left slips and the process repeats. All the while the vehicle is
>losing momentum and you stop on an incline that you have driven up
>hundreds of times. The systems were so bad on some vehicles that you
>couldn't drive up a wet incline, let alone one that was actually slippery.
>
>So what does the government do? Require it on all new vehicles, along
>with tire pressure monitors and ABS. BUT it's perfectly fine that the
>makers install all of the crap to "connect" your phone, laptop and
>whatever else so you can really practice distracted driving...

I knew the thing about the brakes, and have kind of mixed feelings
about it. But this, I was giving it more gas, and it seemed like the
engine wasn't responding - no change in sound, nothing on the tach. I
wouldn't think the brakes could do that. Speed was very low, so the
torque converter wasn't locked up. It was weird. Once I got off the
hill, everything was back to norma.

On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 16:08:43 -0500, wrote:

>'04 Cavalier
>A few times, going up a hill that was a little slick with packed snow,
>it seemed like I got no response when I gave it more throttle. The
>"low track" light was on, so I assume this was traction control in
>action.
>
>My question is, whether this is always a good thing. I've been
>driving in snow for a long time (not that that means I'm doing it
>right); my intuition is that, even if the wheels are slipping,
>sometimes more throttle can help keep you moving and in control.
>
>Am I just wrong? It wouldn't be the first time.

I don' think you are wrong. Traction control can be great for some
situations, esp those where you are giving it a bunch of gas and
sending the car right off the road or into a spin, like a teenager
handed the keys to a corvette. But on snow, traction control and ABS
can be more of a hindrance then a help. Some systems are better then
others and I would guess that the system on an 04 cavalier is a pretty
basic system, i.e, not optimized for snow, designed mainly for
gravel/dirt and water. Does it have an off button? Not many seem
to...

On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 18:25:42 -0700, Ashton Crusher >
wrote:

>On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 16:08:43 -0500, wrote:
>
>>'04 Cavalier
>>A few times, going up a hill that was a little slick with packed snow,
>>it seemed like I got no response when I gave it more throttle. The
>>"low track" light was on, so I assume this was traction control in
>>action.
>>
>>My question is, whether this is always a good thing. I've been
>>driving in snow for a long time (not that that means I'm doing it
>>right); my intuition is that, even if the wheels are slipping,
>>sometimes more throttle can help keep you moving and in control.
>>
>>Am I just wrong? It wouldn't be the first time.
>
>I don' think you are wrong. Traction control can be great for some
>situations, esp those where you are giving it a bunch of gas and
>sending the car right off the road or into a spin, like a teenager
>handed the keys to a corvette. But on snow, traction control and ABS
>can be more of a hindrance then a help. Some systems are better then
>others and I would guess that the system on an 04 cavalier is a pretty
>basic system, i.e, not optimized for snow, designed mainly for
>gravel/dirt and water. Does it have an off button? Not many seem
>to...

No off button. On some earlier Cavs, I used to pull the electrical
plug(s) on the ABS modulator during the winter. Those ABS were pretty
crappy in snow. The '04 ABS seems better; but, this throttle override
thing is just weird. Googling around, I get the idea that clicking
the e-brake a notch may disable traction control. I may play with
that. Or maybe spring will come.

On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 20:24:29 -0500, wrote:

>On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 17:42:47 -0500, "Steve W." >
>wrote:
>
wrote:
>>> '04 Cavalier
>>> A few times, going up a hill that was a little slick with packed snow,
>>> it seemed like I got no response when I gave it more throttle. The
>>> "low track" light was on, so I assume this was traction control in
>>> action.
>>>
>>> My question is, whether this is always a good thing. I've been
>>> driving in snow for a long time (not that that means I'm doing it
>>> right); my intuition is that, even if the wheels are slipping,
>>> sometimes more throttle can help keep you moving and in control.
>>>
>>> Am I just wrong? It wouldn't be the first time.
>>
>>Welcome to the wonderful world of computer controlled driving. Traction
>>control is one of the stupidest things to ever have on a street vehicle.
>>
>>Basically the system works by sensing slip and applying the brakes to
>>the slipping wheel. So you're going up a slight incline in snow. Right
>>front slips, brakes pulse to slow the wheel till it gets traction, then
>>the left slips and the process repeats. All the while the vehicle is
>>losing momentum and you stop on an incline that you have driven up
>>hundreds of times. The systems were so bad on some vehicles that you
>>couldn't drive up a wet incline, let alone one that was actually slippery.
>>
>>So what does the government do? Require it on all new vehicles, along
>>with tire pressure monitors and ABS. BUT it's perfectly fine that the
>>makers install all of the crap to "connect" your phone, laptop and
>>whatever else so you can really practice distracted driving...
>
>I knew the thing about the brakes, and have kind of mixed feelings
>about it. But this, I was giving it more gas, and it seemed like the
>engine wasn't responding - no change in sound, nothing on the tach. I
>wouldn't think the brakes could do that. Speed was very low, so the
>torque converter wasn't locked up. It was weird. Once I got off the
>hill, everything was back to norma.

Traction control can also control the throttle position. It won't
matter what you do with the gas pedal if there is no traction - the
throttle will not open in direct correlation with gas pedal position.
If there is no throttle cable - just wires going to the throttle body,
that's what you have. If you don't like it, you should be able to
disable it with a button somewhere. Check the owner's manual.

> wrote:
> '04 Cavalier
> A few times, going up a hill that was a little slick with packed snow,
> it seemed like I got no response when I gave it more throttle. The
> "low track" light was on, so I assume this was traction control in
> action.
>
> My question is, whether this is always a good thing. I've been
> driving in snow for a long time (not that that means I'm doing it
> right); my intuition is that, even if the wheels are slipping,
> sometimes more throttle can help keep you moving and in control.
>
> Am I just wrong? It wouldn't be the first time.

I used to slightly pull on hand brake which turns traction off. Just pull
until brake light comes on.

Greg

On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 20:55:54 -0500, wrote:

>On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 18:25:42 -0700, Ashton Crusher >
>wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 16:08:43 -0500, wrote:
>>
>>>'04 Cavalier
>>>A few times, going up a hill that was a little slick with packed snow,
>>>it seemed like I got no response when I gave it more throttle. The
>>>"low track" light was on, so I assume this was traction control in
>>>action.
>>>
>>>My question is, whether this is always a good thing. I've been
>>>driving in snow for a long time (not that that means I'm doing it
>>>right); my intuition is that, even if the wheels are slipping,
>>>sometimes more throttle can help keep you moving and in control.
>>>
>>>Am I just wrong? It wouldn't be the first time.
>>
>>I don' think you are wrong. Traction control can be great for some
>>situations, esp those where you are giving it a bunch of gas and
>>sending the car right off the road or into a spin, like a teenager
>>handed the keys to a corvette. But on snow, traction control and ABS
>>can be more of a hindrance then a help. Some systems are better then
>>others and I would guess that the system on an 04 cavalier is a pretty
>>basic system, i.e, not optimized for snow, designed mainly for
>>gravel/dirt and water. Does it have an off button? Not many seem
>>to...
>
>No off button. On some earlier Cavs, I used to pull the electrical
>plug(s) on the ABS modulator during the winter. Those ABS were pretty
>crappy in snow. The '04 ABS seems better; but, this throttle override
>thing is just weird. Googling around, I get the idea that clicking
>the e-brake a notch may disable traction control. I may play with
>that. Or maybe spring will come.


On my 99 Mustang GT with traction control (and an off button) it is
quite easy to be turning onto the main street from a stop and be
giving it more gas then the computer likes making the TC come on and
it reduces engine power. And that's with a cable controlled
(non-electronic) throttle. I think it interrupts power to the spark
plugs. You can put your foot farther down but there's no increase in
power till you have finished the turn and have been going straight for
a bit. It's not hard to imagine how that car, without TC, could be
easily spun out by a drunk or inexperienced driver. There are several
videos on you tube of Ferrari's being driven by inexperienced drivers
who spin them out and crash them just starting up fast from a stop
light.

On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 11:08:46 AM UTC-10, wrote:
> '04 Cavalier
> A few times, going up a hill that was a little slick with packed snow,
> it seemed like I got no response when I gave it more throttle. The
> "low track" light was on, so I assume this was traction control in
> action.
>
> My question is, whether this is always a good thing. I've been
> driving in snow for a long time (not that that means I'm doing it
> right); my intuition is that, even if the wheels are slipping,
> sometimes more throttle can help keep you moving and in control.
>
> Am I just wrong? It wouldn't be the first time.

I'm guessing that if it got you up that hill, it was a good thing. If it got me up that hill it would be a very good thing cause I don't ever drive on slick surfaces.