This is the USA interstate system (how does the UK system work?)

Nick Finnigan wrote:
> On 10/03/2015 19:08, Mike Barnes wrote:
>> JNugent wrote:
>>> On 09/03/2015 23:57, Adair Bordon wrote:
>>>
>>>> This is the USA interstate system (how does the UK system work?)
>>>
>>> [ snip USA Interstate explanation ]
>>>
>>>> This is the USA interstate system (how does the UK system work?)
>>>
>>> The basic Great Britain (not UK) all-purpose road-numbering system
>>> (originating during the 1920s) works on the basis of six routes
>>> radiating from London plus three in Scotland.
>> >
>> >[snip explanation]
>>
>> An important difference - I've seen many roads signed with two numbers in
>> the USA, but none in the UK. I believe that's because in the USA they
>> number routes, rather than roads, and two routes can share the same road.
>
> It happens in the UK occasionally; possibly Watford Way is A1 and A41.

Tempting to think that, but I don't think so. Driving E on the A41,
approaching the roundabout at the N end of Watford Way, where the A1
joins from the N, the sign says...

C. London A1 (A41)

(On UK signs a road number in parentheses means that that road can be
reached by driving in the indicated direction.)

Similarly proceeding N on the A41 the sign says

The North
Hatfield
Mill Hill
A1
(M25)
Aylesbury (A41)

So the A41 leads to the A1 and then the A41 resumes. In the USA the
signs would (I think) indicate A1 *and* A41.

--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England

On 10/03/2015 23:44, Mike Barnes wrote:
> Nick Finnigan wrote:
>> On 10/03/2015 19:08, Mike Barnes wrote:
>>> JNugent wrote:
>>>> On 09/03/2015 23:57, Adair Bordon wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> This is the USA interstate system (how does the UK system work?)
>>>>
>>>> [ snip USA Interstate explanation ]
>>>>
>>>>> This is the USA interstate system (how does the UK system work?)
>>>>
>>>> The basic Great Britain (not UK) all-purpose road-numbering system
>>>> (originating during the 1920s) works on the basis of six routes
>>>> radiating from London plus three in Scotland.
>>> >
>>> >[snip explanation]
>>>
>>> An important difference - I've seen many roads signed with two
>>> numbers in
>>> the USA, but none in the UK. I believe that's because in the USA they
>>> number routes, rather than roads, and two routes can share the same
>>> road.
>>
>> It happens in the UK occasionally; possibly Watford Way is A1 and A41.
>
> Tempting to think that, but I don't think so. Driving E on the A41,
> approaching the roundabout at the N end of Watford Way, where the A1
> joins from the N, the sign says...
>
> C. London A1 (A41)
>
> (On UK signs a road number in parentheses means that that road can be
> reached by driving in the indicated direction.)
>
> Similarly proceeding N on the A41 the sign says
>
> The North
> Hatfield
> Mill Hill
> A1
> (M25)
> Aylesbury (A41)
>
> So the A41 leads to the A1 and then the A41 resumes. In the USA the
> signs would (I think) indicate A1 *and* A41.

I think I also recall continental roads carrying two E numbers.

On 10/03/2015 23:17, Ian Jackson wrote:
> In message >, Nick
> Finnigan > writes
>> On 10/03/2015 19:08, Mike Barnes wrote:
>>> JNugent wrote:
>>>> On 09/03/2015 23:57, Adair Bordon wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> This is the USA interstate system (how does the UK system work?)
>>>>
>>>> [ snip USA Interstate explanation ]
>>>>
>>>>> This is the USA interstate system (how does the UK system work?)
>>>>
>>>> The basic Great Britain (not UK) all-purpose road-numbering system
>>>> (originating during the 1920s) works on the basis of six routes
>>>> radiating from London plus three in Scotland.
>>> >
>>> >[snip explanation]
>>>
>>> An important difference - I've seen many roads signed with two
>>> numbers in
>>> the USA, but none in the UK. I believe that's because in the USA they
>>> number routes, rather than roads, and two routes can share the same
>>> road.
>>
>> It happens in the UK occasionally; possibly Watford Way is A1 and A41.
>>
> Does this really happen? More likely is that the A41 joins the A1, and a
> short distance further on, leaves the A1 (or vice versa). The bit
> between the joining and the leaving will be officially be one or the
> other - but not both. This can be confusing if the signs appear to
> indicate that you're on the wrong road.

You may be right, but it's a distinction without much of a practical
difference.

Ian Jackson wrote:
> In message >, Nick
> Finnigan > writes
>> On 10/03/2015 19:08, Mike Barnes wrote:
>>> JNugent wrote:
>>>> On 09/03/2015 23:57, Adair Bordon wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> This is the USA interstate system (how does the UK system work?)
>>>>
>>>> [ snip USA Interstate explanation ]
>>>>
>>>>> This is the USA interstate system (how does the UK system work?)
>>>>
>>>> The basic Great Britain (not UK) all-purpose road-numbering system
>>>> (originating during the 1920s) works on the basis of six routes
>>>> radiating from London plus three in Scotland.
>>> >
>>> >[snip explanation]
>>>
>>> An important difference - I've seen many roads signed with two numbers in
>>> the USA, but none in the UK. I believe that's because in the USA they
>>> number routes, rather than roads, and two routes can share the same road.
>>
>> It happens in the UK occasionally; possibly Watford Way is A1 and A41.
>>
> Does this really happen? More likely is that the A41 joins the A1, and a
> short distance further on, leaves the A1 (or vice versa). The bit
> between the joining and the leaving will be officially be one or the
> other - but not both. This can be confusing if the signs appear to
> indicate that you're on the wrong road.

Not that confusing when you consider that the "right" road number
appears on the road signs, albeit in parentheses.

--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England

In message >, Mike Barnes
> writes
>Ian Jackson wrote:
>> In message >, Nick
>> Finnigan > writes
>>> On 10/03/2015 19:08, Mike Barnes wrote:
>>>> JNugent wrote:
>>>>> On 09/03/2015 23:57, Adair Bordon wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> This is the USA interstate system (how does the UK system work?)
>>>>>
>>>>> [ snip USA Interstate explanation ]
>>>>>
>>>>>> This is the USA interstate system (how does the UK system work?)
>>>>>
>>>>> The basic Great Britain (not UK) all-purpose road-numbering system
>>>>> (originating during the 1920s) works on the basis of six routes
>>>>> radiating from London plus three in Scotland.
>>>> >
>>>> >[snip explanation]
>>>>
>>>> An important difference - I've seen many roads signed with two numbers in
>>>> the USA, but none in the UK. I believe that's because in the USA they
>>>> number routes, rather than roads, and two routes can share the same road.
>>>
>>> It happens in the UK occasionally; possibly Watford Way is A1 and A41.
>>>
>> Does this really happen? More likely is that the A41 joins the A1, and a
>> short distance further on, leaves the A1 (or vice versa). The bit
>> between the joining and the leaving will be officially be one or the
>> other - but not both. This can be confusing if the signs appear to
>> indicate that you're on the wrong road.
>
>Not that confusing when you consider that the "right" road number
>appears on the road signs, albeit in parentheses.
>
I'm pretty sure that the bracketed road number indicates either that the
one road is really two, or that it is heading towards - or will become -
that road. If so, it could be confusing if you had been on the A41, and
didn't realise you had effectively left it and were now on the A1. Of
course you shouldn't worry, because if you keep on going, you will
eventually be able to regain the A41. However, my first reaction would
probably be "How on earth did I get off the A41?".
--
Ian

On Wednesday, March 11, 2015 at 2:29:32 PM UTC-5, Ian Jackson wrote:
> In message >, Mike Barnes
> > writes
> >Ian Jackson wrote:
> >> In message >, Nick
> >> Finnigan > writes
> >>> On 10/03/2015 19:08, Mike Barnes wrote:
> >>>> JNugent wrote:
> >>>>> On 09/03/2015 23:57, Adair Bordon wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> This is the USA interstate system (how does the UK system work?)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> [ snip USA Interstate explanation ]
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> This is the USA interstate system (how does the UK system work?)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The basic Great Britain (not UK) all-purpose road-numbering system
> >>>>> (originating during the 1920s) works on the basis of six routes
> >>>>> radiating from London plus three in Scotland.
> >>>> >
> >>>> >[snip explanation]
> >>>>
> >>>> An important difference - I've seen many roads signed with two numbers in
> >>>> the USA, but none in the UK. I believe that's because in the USA they
> >>>> number routes, rather than roads, and two routes can share the same road.
> >>>
> >>> It happens in the UK occasionally; possibly Watford Way is A1 and A41.
> >>>
> >> Does this really happen? More likely is that the A41 joins the A1, and a
> >> short distance further on, leaves the A1 (or vice versa). The bit
> >> between the joining and the leaving will be officially be one or the
> >> other - but not both. This can be confusing if the signs appear to
> >> indicate that you're on the wrong road.
> >
> >Not that confusing when you consider that the "right" road number
> >appears on the road signs, albeit in parentheses.
> >
> I'm pretty sure that the bracketed road number indicates either that the
> one road is really two, or that it is heading towards - or will become -
> that road. If so, it could be confusing if you had been on the A41, and
> didn't realise you had effectively left it and were now on the A1. Of
> course you shouldn't worry, because if you keep on going, you will
> eventually be able to regain the A41. However, my first reaction would
> probably be "How on earth did I get off the A41?".
> --
> Ian

In America, Rand McNally Road Atlas is allways very handy to have, when traveling. In Europe, Stadtplan 'Road Atlas'. I have two of them I once bought years ago at a Goodwill thrift store.

Ian Jackson wrote:
> In message >, Mike Barnes
> > writes
>> Ian Jackson wrote:
>>> In message >, Nick
>>> Finnigan > writes
>>>> On 10/03/2015 19:08, Mike Barnes wrote:
>>>>> JNugent wrote:
>>>>>> On 09/03/2015 23:57, Adair Bordon wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is the USA interstate system (how does the UK system work?)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [ snip USA Interstate explanation ]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is the USA interstate system (how does the UK system work?)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The basic Great Britain (not UK) all-purpose road-numbering system
>>>>>> (originating during the 1920s) works on the basis of six routes
>>>>>> radiating from London plus three in Scotland.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >[snip explanation]
>>>>>
>>>>> An important difference - I've seen many roads signed with two numbers in
>>>>> the USA, but none in the UK. I believe that's because in the USA they
>>>>> number routes, rather than roads, and two routes can share the same road.
>>>>
>>>> It happens in the UK occasionally; possibly Watford Way is A1 and A41.
>>>>
>>> Does this really happen? More likely is that the A41 joins the A1, and a
>>> short distance further on, leaves the A1 (or vice versa). The bit
>>> between the joining and the leaving will be officially be one or the
>>> other - but not both. This can be confusing if the signs appear to
>>> indicate that you're on the wrong road.
>>
>> Not that confusing when you consider that the "right" road number
>> appears on the road signs, albeit in parentheses.
>>
> I'm pretty sure that the bracketed road number indicates either that the
> one road is really two,

no

> or that it is heading towards

yes

> - or will become -

possibly

> that road. If so, it could be confusing if you had been on the A41, and
> didn't realise you had effectively left it and were now on the A1. Of
> course you shouldn't worry, because if you keep on going, you will
> eventually be able to regain the A41. However, my first reaction would
> probably be "How on earth did I get off the A41?".

If you find that confusing, fair enough, but I don't think most people
would bother about it as long as the road signs indicate that they're
going in the right direction.

--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England

In message >, Mike Barnes
> writes
>Ian Jackson wrote:
>> In message >, Mike Barnes
>> > writes
>>> Ian Jackson wrote:
>>>> In message >, Nick
>>>> Finnigan > writes
>>>>> On 10/03/2015 19:08, Mike Barnes wrote:
>>>>>> JNugent wrote:
>>>>>>> On 09/03/2015 23:57, Adair Bordon wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is the USA interstate system (how does the UK system work?)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [ snip USA Interstate explanation ]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is the USA interstate system (how does the UK system work?)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The basic Great Britain (not UK) all-purpose road-numbering system
>>>>>>> (originating during the 1920s) works on the basis of six routes
>>>>>>> radiating from London plus three in Scotland.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >[snip explanation]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> An important difference - I've seen many roads signed with two numbers in
>>>>>> the USA, but none in the UK. I believe that's because in the USA they
>>>>>> number routes, rather than roads, and two routes can share the same road.
>>>>>
>>>>> It happens in the UK occasionally; possibly Watford Way is A1 and A41.
>>>>>
>>>> Does this really happen? More likely is that the A41 joins the A1, and a
>>>> short distance further on, leaves the A1 (or vice versa). The bit
>>>> between the joining and the leaving will be officially be one or the
>>>> other - but not both. This can be confusing if the signs appear to
>>>> indicate that you're on the wrong road.
>>>
>>> Not that confusing when you consider that the "right" road number
>>> appears on the road signs, albeit in parentheses.
>>>
>> I'm pretty sure that the bracketed road number indicates either that the
>> one road is really two,
>
>no
>
>> or that it is heading towards
>
>yes
>
>> - or will become -
>
>possibly
>
>> that road. If so, it could be confusing if you had been on the A41, and
>> didn't realise you had effectively left it and were now on the A1. Of
>> course you shouldn't worry, because if you keep on going, you will
>> eventually be able to regain the A41. However, my first reaction would
>> probably be "How on earth did I get off the A41?".
>
>If you find that confusing, fair enough, but I don't think most people
>would bother about it as long as the road signs indicate that they're
>going in the right direction.
>
I don't really find it all that confusing - but if you're on an
unfamiliar bit of road, surely it's only natural to sometimes have a
brief flash of suspicion that you might have gone astray!
--
Ian

On Tue, 10 Mar 2015 19:08:08 +0000, Mike Barnes
> wrote:

>JNugent wrote:
>> On 09/03/2015 23:57, Adair Bordon wrote:
>>
>>> This is the USA interstate system (how does the UK system work?)
>>
>> [ snip USA Interstate explanation ]
>>
>>> This is the USA interstate system (how does the UK system work?)
>>
>> The basic Great Britain (not UK) all-purpose road-numbering system
>> (originating during the 1920s) works on the basis of six routes
>> radiating from London plus three in Scotland.
> >
> >[snip explanation]
>
>An important difference - I've seen many roads signed with two numbers
>in the USA, but none in the UK. I believe that's because in the USA they
>number routes, rather than roads, and two routes can share the same road.

I think what you are seeing is a reflection of how the UK road system
was always pretty much a national system since the entirely of the UK
isn't really all the big. In the US by comparison, the land area is
much larger AND almost all the highways originally were State
Highways, not "federal" highways. So the states created their own
numbering systems within the state. Then the feds started getting
involved and created the US highway system which mostly overlaid the
existing state highway systems. That allowed there to be a continuous
US 60 that went from the east to the west coast and be "named" the
same, US60, all along the way even though in one state it might be
State Highway 12 and in the next state it would be State Highway 54.
Because the US route might cover more then one State Highway, even
within a single state, it was usually not possible to simply renumber
the state highway in the state to simply match the Federal number. The
interstate, while more organized in it's numbering system (North-south
routes are always odd numbers, etc) still often overlaid existing
state highways and multiple state highways so the same issues
remained.

Ashton Crusher wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Mar 2015 19:08:08 +0000, Mike Barnes
> > wrote:
>
>> JNugent wrote:
>>> On 09/03/2015 23:57, Adair Bordon wrote:
>>>
>>>> This is the USA interstate system (how does the UK system work?)
>>>
>>> [ snip USA Interstate explanation ]
>>>
>>>> This is the USA interstate system (how does the UK system work?)
>>>
>>> The basic Great Britain (not UK) all-purpose road-numbering system
>>> (originating during the 1920s) works on the basis of six routes
>>> radiating from London plus three in Scotland.
>>>
>>> [snip explanation]
>>
>> An important difference - I've seen many roads signed with two numbers
>> in the USA, but none in the UK. I believe that's because in the USA they
>> number routes, rather than roads, and two routes can share the same road.
>
> I think what you are seeing is a reflection of how the UK road system
> was always pretty much a national system since the entirely of the UK
> isn't really all the big. In the US by comparison, the land area is
> much larger AND almost all the highways originally were State
> Highways, not "federal" highways. So the states created their own
> numbering systems within the state. Then the feds started getting
> involved and created the US highway system which mostly overlaid the
> existing state highway systems. That allowed there to be a continuous
> US 60 that went from the east to the west coast and be "named" the
> same, US60, all along the way even though in one state it might be
> State Highway 12 and in the next state it would be State Highway 54.
> Because the US route might cover more then one State Highway, even
> within a single state, it was usually not possible to simply renumber
> the state highway in the state to simply match the Federal number. The
> interstate, while more organized in it's numbering system (North-south
> routes are always odd numbers, etc) still often overlaid existing
> state highways and multiple state highways so the same issues
> remained.

I get that - thanks - and much the same situation exists in Europe with
the "E" road numbers which are largely superimposed on national
networks. In the UK there are some "E" road numbers but they don't
appear on signs.

But what I actually had in mind was two numbers from the same authority
(e.g. two state route numbers) on the same stretch of road.

--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England