Who Needs a Hybrid???

ACAR wrote:
>
> Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
> >
> >
> > And I think that you'll agree that the engineering in the earlier Honda
> > cars was a good deal more elegant than those of later years.
>
> Just a few years prior to your beloved '83, Honda used to attach the
> suspension directly to the front fenders/wheel wells; the wheel wells
> would rot out allowing the struts to poke up thru the hood and the
> engine to rest comfortably on the road.
>
> Then there was the elegant Honda oil screen feature that caused more
> than a few Honda engines to go TU due to oil starvation (piston rings
> would shave cylinder walls).
>
> There's lots more. Look it up.
>


Hmmmmmm, I drove a '76 Civic to 160K with minor repairs until the body
rotted out...



> >
> > "ACAR" is living the life of a sheeple amply brainwashed in "new is
> > good" vs. "old is bad."
>
> The oldest car in my garage is only a few years younger than your '83.
> It too is a cheap-to-keep ****box. That I'd replace in a second if I
> could buy a plug-in Prius today.
>
> You think that '83 has tailpipe emissions similar to a new Fit?
> Structurally, your '83 accordion isn't where I'd choose to put my
> family. None of that bothers you, eh?


My old cars range from 1931 through 1964.

Sometimes I wonder how I:

• Survived lead paint
• Survived a lot of years without seat belts
• Survived the era of no childproof prescription bottles
• Survived walking a 1/2 mile to and from a school bus stop

....and other factors too numerous to elaborate.

I suppose at some point, all vehicles will be the equivalent of M1 tanks
with like increases in weight and consumption of resources to build the
damned things. Hell, they are already being weight hogs.

I suppose at some point, we will all be injected with the "cure all"
mental tonics to ensure conformance with "upgraded" societal standards.

I suppose at some point, feeding will be automated as will be sleeping
and who know... Procreation too!

No thanks. I will continue to provide for myself based on independent
rational thought processes. Should disaster strike, my old points 'n
condenser vehicles will still run while your will be dead before departure.

You are a perfect example of, "Shouldn't the authorities be doing
something about the nut behind the wheel?" that is so lacking in today's
scheme of things... The ultimate devolving into a textbook sheeple.

JT

Grumpy AuContraire > wrote:
> Hmmmmmm, I drove a '76 Civic to 160K with minor repairs until the body
> rotted out...

I recall 3/4 of Hondas of that era all had ruined paint right over the
battery, caused by the battery above dripping on them during shipment.

I also recall a lot of early valve jobs or cam failures, I don't remember
which.

Maybe 76 was right after that was fixed, but I don't recall the first Honda
sedans as being anything to be proud of from a reliability perspective.


--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5

On 2006-09-16, Gordon McGrew > wrote:

> Uh, I don't think so. That would be 1333 pounds. My '74 Civic
> supposedly weighed 1605 pounds and your '83 is a porker by comparison.
> My guess is that your car weighs about 2150 pounds.

You are correct. According to my Helms manual, my Si curb weight is
almost exactly 1 ton (2055lbs). I think I got that 2/3 ton number on
a hybrid/hotrod honda website. Perhaps they were talking about the body
alone, minus the powertrain. I can't even find the site anymore.

But, the fact remains, less weight means better milage. It's the
primary mechanism to increase gas mileage. Electric motors and added
wiring are big contributors to weight. Copper is heavy. AC is not so
heavy, it being mostly hollow tubing and vessels. Even the compressor
is powered off the engine. Plus Honda makes their AC systems very
close to optimal. The AC in my black Si is marginal at higher temps.
Over 110 deg F ambient, it's all but useless, and this being in
perfect working condition.

nb

wrote:
>
> Grumpy AuContraire > wrote:
> > Hmmmmmm, I drove a '76 Civic to 160K with minor repairs until the body
> > rotted out...
>
> I recall 3/4 of Hondas of that era all had ruined paint right over the
> battery, caused by the battery above dripping on them during shipment.
>
> I also recall a lot of early valve jobs or cam failures, I don't remember
> which.
>
> Maybe 76 was right after that was fixed, but I don't recall the first Honda
> sedans as being anything to be proud of from a reliability perspective.
>


I purchased my '76 from the original owner in 1982. It had over 80K
and I ran it to 160 K with only minor items such as brakes, one water
pump/timing belt and starter rebuild along with a used alternator. It
never failed EVER!

JT

Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>
> I suppose at some point, all vehicles will be the equivalent of M1 tanks
> with like increases in weight and consumption of resources to build the
> damned things. Hell, they are already being weight hogs.
>

Honda Fit weighs in at under 2450 lb., passes all current crash tests
and performs much better than your '83.



> I suppose at some point, we will all be injected with the "cure all"
> mental tonics to ensure conformance with "upgraded" societal standards.
>
> I suppose at some point, feeding will be automated as will be sleeping
> and who know... Procreation too!
>
> No thanks. I will continue to provide for myself based on independent
> rational thought processes.

And the above are examples of your rational thought?

Have a nice day.

On 2006-09-19, Elmo P. Shagnasty > wrote:

>> Honda Fit weighs in at under 2450 lb
>
> Which is 200 pounds MORE than my 92 Civic Si, which had more power...

And 400lbs more than my '87 Si. I remember reading the 4th and 5th
gen hatchbacks started putting on more and more weight, the only
exception being the high mileage vx models. These were prized by
racers for their light bodies (probably where I got that misleading
curb weight number). Did Si start adding power everything to Si's
later on? Mine is all elbow powered.

nb

notbob wrote:
> Plus Honda makes their AC systems very
> close to optimal. The AC in my black Si is marginal at higher temps.
> Over 110 deg F ambient, it's all but useless, and this being in
> perfect working condition.

That doesn't strike me as being particularly "optimal". But then again,
neither does living in 110-degree weather.

--
Mike Smith

Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>
> I suppose at some point, all vehicles will be the equivalent of M1 tanks
> with like increases in weight and consumption of resources to build the
> damned things. Hell, they are already being weight hogs.
>
> I suppose at some point, we will all be injected with the "cure all"
> mental tonics to ensure conformance with "upgraded" societal standards.
>
> I suppose at some point, feeding will be automated as will be sleeping
> and who know... Procreation too!

I suppose at some point, you'll take off your tinfoil hat and join the
human race.

--
Mike Smith

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article . com>,
> "ACAR" > wrote:
>
>> Honda Fit weighs in at under 2450 lb
>
> Which is 200 pounds MORE than my 92 Civic Si, which had more power...

Crash your '92 into a Fit and see who wins. Or drive 'em both 500 miles
and see which is more comfortable. Not all automotive advancements can
be quantified in terms of things like MPG or HP.

--
Mike Smith

On 2006-09-19, Mike Smith > wrote:

> That doesn't strike me as being particularly "optimal". But then again,
> neither does living in 110-degree weather.

I guess I meant in the sense of optimum design parameters. IOW,
designed to do the minimum required job within the constraints of the
overall vehicle, such as power, size, load, etc. I have no doubt the
air conditioning power for my car would be adequate for all but one
situation: a black exterior, which mine has. That color just absorbs
too much radiant heat and overwhelms the AC. I'm sure it would work
just fine in a white car. As for the weather, that's not too bad.
It's those occasional 115 deg days that kill. I could bake bread in
my car. True story: I once left a sixpack of 7UP in the back on a
100+ deg day. Every can blew and the spray turned black against the
cream colored liner.

nb