Which pad is "better?" Ceramic or semi-metallic?

On 01/23/2012 03:05 PM, Vic Smith wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 05:41:51 -0800 (PST), gpsman
> > wrote:
>
>> On Jan 22, 1:51 pm, Vic > wrote:
>>> On Sun, 22 Jan 2012 12:35:03 -0500, Nate >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 01/22/2012 12:27 PM, jim beam wrote:
>>>> You and people like you are the reason moderated forums are
>>>> sadly so popular.
>>>
>>> You got that right.
>>
>> Pfft. Your bull**** detector is apparently inoperable.
>>
>> Good luck finding a forum with unlimited tolerance for functionally
>> illiterate Googletards.
>>
>>> http://www.impalaforums.com/chevy-im...sion/238820-wa...
>>
>>> FWIW. I just searched for "Centric."
>>
>> Yeah? How hard was that...?
>>
>>> I registered on that forum just for kicks to do the search.
>>
>> Shoulda searched some more. You might have come across this gem:
>>
>> "how to organize stuff in trunk?"
>> http://www.impalaforums.com/chevy-im...-in-trunk.html
>>
>> Or this condemnation of his Impala:
>>
>> "It's actually my company car, so I practically live in it. I'm
>> trying
>> to maintain this one properly, as by the time I'm due for a new
>> company car, I'll likely need a new personal vehicle as well, and I'm
>> gambling that the buyout on this one will be within my budget, and
>> that there won't be anything more appealing on the used market for the
>> same price."
>> http://www.motorsforum.com/gm/good-s...988-.htm#48095
>>
>>> One thing for sure, you won't run across any jim beams there
>>
>> <rolls eyes> Usenet is where nitwits come to be abused.
>> -----
>>
>> - gpsman
>
>
> I tried to stay on the rotor topic. Basically killing time, and I
> enjoy car banter.
> I know Nate is often full of ****.
> Saw that back in '95 or '96 when he thought an old Dodge Dart he was
> fixing was almost a "classic." Pure kid.
> I unloaded my '74 Swinger on my father-in-law.
> Always felt guilty about that.
> I cried at his funeral mostly thinking about how I did him wrong.
> Didn't matter the 225 was solid, the rest was junk.

well, '74 was a bad year. '71 and earlier can be built to be fun if you
start with a rust-free example and build it right.

>
> Then Nate was complaining about the Impala steering wheel covering
> coming off.
> I told him that happens mainly because some drivers can't
> resist gripping and twisting on the wheel like they did hard wheels.
> You can't do that with covered wheels.
> Think he just went away that time.

nobody ever came up with a reasonable solution to the problem. And I
don't think you can blame it all on "gripping and twisting" as the
plastic actually wore through to the foam. Lesson learned - first thing
I bought when I got a new company car was a leather steering wheel
cover. Apparently new GM steering wheels are ****.

>
> Not long ago he was trying to tutor me on Chevy lifter noise.
> Tutor me on Chevy lifter noise.
> That time I just went away. Too silly.

really? you sure you're talking about me? I don't remember discussing
Chevy lifters with anyone at any time in the recent past.

>
> Now he posts asking about Centric rotors, but doesn't mention they're
> for a CJ.

XJ, not CJ. And hopefully they don't make different quality grades for
different vehicle brands...?

> And I go the Impala forum to look and he doesn't mention
> he's been there.

Why would I? I wasn't talking about an Impala... this time. I gave up
on the Impala forums long ago as being full of people who while well
intentioned don't really know anything about the cars they're driving.

I think that the theory that I developed long ago which I don't know if
I ever bothered to share or not (but will now) still holds true. If you
are buying a car that you plan on maintaining yourself, pick one with a
rabid enthusiast base. Doesn't matter what it is, just that it's out
there. That way there'll be a forum somewhere that searching will
answer 75% of your questions and someone will be willing to help with
another 20% leaving the last 5% for you to puzzle out yourself... as
opposed to a "normal" car where you end up haunting eBay for the FSM
(which sometimes is useless anyway... as I found when I needed to
replace the wiper motor on my F-150. I never did figure out how one was
supposed to pull the cowl cover without removing the hood and/or bending
the **** out of it while it's covered with tape to keep the hood corners
from scratching it.)

The good news is that Jeep owners seem to be just as enthusiastic about
their vehicles as the owners of other vehicles that I've owned in the
past, so I am for the most part finding good info. Doesn't look like a
lot of people have tried the Centrics on Jeeps yet but at least one
vendor of brake pads recommends them which makes me feel a little better
(found his site while looking for info. on the mid-99 model year
hub/rotor change.)

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 18:45:40 -0500, Nate Nagel >
wrote:

>
>XJ, not CJ. And hopefully they don't make different quality grades for
>different vehicle brands...?
>

A brand that works on one platform might be crap on another.
Why find out the hard way?

>
>I think that the theory that I developed long ago which I don't know if
>I ever bothered to share or not (but will now) still holds true. If you
>are buying a car that you plan on maintaining yourself, pick one with a
>rabid enthusiast base. Doesn't matter what it is, just that it's out
>there. That way there'll be a forum somewhere that searching will
>answer 75% of your questions and someone will be willing to help with
>another 20% leaving the last 5% for you to puzzle out yourself... as
>opposed to a "normal" car where you end up haunting eBay for the FSM
>(which sometimes is useless anyway... as I found when I needed to
>replace the wiper motor on my F-150. I never did figure out how one was
>supposed to pull the cowl cover without removing the hood and/or bending
>the **** out of it while it's covered with tape to keep the hood corners
>from scratching it.)
>

That's all true, and I didn't realize it until we started doing work
on my daughter's Eclipse.
Very little info, and you have to look hard.
Chevy always has "enthusiasts" and where they lack in that, it's made
up by volume.
Don't know about Impala though.
Bonneville has plenty of enthusiasts out there.
Never knew that until we did my son's LIM gaskets and plenum.
I never cared for Pontiac. Too high-class for me.
I did have a '61 Ventura that I totaled.
Only thing I remember about it is the trans leaked.

>The good news is that Jeep owners seem to be just as enthusiastic about
>their vehicles as the owners of other vehicles that I've owned in the
>past, so I am for the most part finding good info. Doesn't look like a
>lot of people have tried the Centrics on Jeeps yet but at least one
>vendor of brake pads recommends them which makes me feel a little better
>(found his site while looking for info. on the mid-99 model year
>hub/rotor change.)
>

I buy no-name rotors and haven't had a problem with them.
But I'm not what you would call an "enthusiast."

--Vic

On Jan 23, 5:51*pm, dsi1 > wrote:
> On 1/22/2012 11:29 AM, Vic Smith wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Sounds good for drilled rotors.
> > I just go to local O'Reilly's and pick them up for $15-20 each.
> > Not drilled, just plain rotors.
> > They gave me the right ones for the Lumina
> > Only put on a few sets or rotors on cars, and they held up and were
> > never replaced.
> > Slight scores on rotors don't bother me.
> > When they get where they dig up the pads too fast I replace them.
> > Ever since I picked up rotors the FLAPS said fit my Celebrity, but
> > didn't, I bring the old ones in to match.
> > Try to do that with most parts.
> > The Celebrity had heavy-duty rotors for some reason.
> > They had them at the same store, but didn't ask me if that's what I
> > needed. *And I didn't know squat.
> > Hell, it was a different bolt pattern.
>
> > --Vic
>
> I changed my front pads yesterday on my Hyundai Sonata. I wanted to
> change the rotors but the darn things are held on with a couple of
> screws so I need to dig up an impact wrench. If I can't find one, I'll
> drill those suckers out. I don't intend to replace them either. :-)

A hand impact may work better than an air impact for that application,
actually. (I'm assuming it's a flat head Phillips screw or similar,
much like VW used to use. On a VW you really need the screws though
as they use lug bolts, not lug nuts, and trying to line up a wheel,
rotor, and hub so you can get the first bolt started can be somewhat
frustrating.) Likewise the hand impact is the shiznit for door hinge
screws.

On Jan 23, 7:19*pm, Vic Smith > wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 18:45:40 -0500, Nate Nagel >
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >XJ, not CJ. *And hopefully they don't make different quality grades for
> >different vehicle brands...?
>
> A brand that works on one platform might be crap on another.
> Why find out the hard way?
>
>
>
> >I think that the theory that I developed long ago which I don't know if
> >I ever bothered to share or not (but will now) still holds true. *If you
> >are buying a car that you plan on maintaining yourself, pick one with a
> >rabid enthusiast base. *Doesn't matter what it is, just that it's out
> >there. *That way there'll be a forum somewhere that searching will
> >answer 75% of your questions and someone will be willing to help with
> >another 20% leaving the last 5% for you to puzzle out yourself... as
> >opposed to a "normal" car where you end up haunting eBay for the FSM
> >(which sometimes is useless anyway... as I found when I needed to
> >replace the wiper motor on my F-150. *I never did figure out how one was
> >supposed to pull the cowl cover without removing the hood and/or bending
> >the **** out of it while it's covered with tape to keep the hood corners
> >from scratching it.)
>
> That's all true, and I didn't realize it until we started doing work
> on my daughter's Eclipse.
> Very little info, and you have to look hard.

That surprises me, I thought that the DSM's had a pretty good
following among the ricer crowd. I hate Mitsubishis on principle, but
the early Eclipse seemed to be the one car that they managed to screw
up and actually make somewhat reliable.

> Chevy always has "enthusiasts" and where they lack in that, it's made
> up by volume.
> Don't know about Impala though.
> Bonneville has plenty of enthusiasts out there.
> Never knew that until we did my son's LIM gaskets and plenum.
> I never cared for Pontiac. *Too high-class for me.
> I did have a '61 Ventura that I totaled.
> Only thing I remember about it is the trans leaked.

I was really disappointed in the average knowledge level of the
posters to the Impala forums. Likewise with the Ford truck forums
(even though the F-series is supposedly the most popular vehicle on
the planet?) Jeep owners seem to be heavy into DIY which is good,
there's real basic level DIY instructions posted for just about
everything, so it's easy to plan a weekend thrash without actually
having to get under the vehicle beforehand (which is difficult when
the entire amount of daylight in any given weekday is spent at work
and not anywhere near vehicle of concern.)

> >The good news is that Jeep owners seem to be just as enthusiastic about
> >their vehicles as the owners of other vehicles that I've owned in the
> >past, so I am for the most part finding good info. *Doesn't look like a
> >lot of people have tried the Centrics on Jeeps yet but at least one
> >vendor of brake pads recommends them which makes me feel a little better
> >(found his site while looking for info. on the mid-99 model year
> >hub/rotor change.)
>
> I buy no-name rotors and haven't had a problem with them.
> But I'm not what you would call an "enthusiast."

Which, truth be told, is probably fine. I just feel better when using
the best parts possible, especially when I've pared down the stable
quite a bit and don't have a whole lot of extra vehicles laying around
(right now I still have the Ford pickup, but that'll be for sale as
soon as I get caught up on the maintenance on the Jeep.)

nate

On Jan 23, 3:05*pm, Vic Smith > wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 05:41:51 -0800 (PST), gpsman wrote:

> ><rolls eyes> *Usenet is where nitwits come to be abused.
>
> And jb is No 1 asshole here, and a Hondahead to boot.
> Makes Nate look good to me.

I'll give 10 ignorant, functionally illiterate nitwits for every
knowledgeable Hondahead asshole you can come up with.

No accounting for tastes, I reckon.
-----

- gpsman

On 01/24/2012 05:23 AM, N8N wrote:
> On Jan 23, 7:19�pm, Vic > wrote:
>> On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 18:45:40 -0500, Nate >
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> XJ, not CJ. �And hopefully they don't make different quality grades for
>>> different vehicle brands...?
>>
>> A brand that works on one platform might be crap on another.
>> Why find out the hard way?
>>
>>
>>
>>> I think that the theory that I developed long ago which I don't know if
>>> I ever bothered to share or not (but will now) still holds true. �If you
>>> are buying a car that you plan on maintaining yourself, pick one with a
>>> rabid enthusiast base. �Doesn't matter what it is, just that it's out
>>> there. �That way there'll be a forum somewhere that searching will
>>> answer 75% of your questions and someone will be willing to help with
>>> another 20% leaving the last 5% for you to puzzle out yourself... as
>>> opposed to a "normal" car where you end up haunting eBay for the FSM
>>> (which sometimes is useless anyway... as I found when I needed to
>>> replace the wiper motor on my F-150. �I never did figure out how one was
>>> supposed to pull the cowl cover without removing the hood and/or bending
>>> the **** out of it while it's covered with tape to keep the hood corners
>> >from scratching it.)
>>
>> That's all true, and I didn't realize it until we started doing work
>> on my daughter's Eclipse.
>> Very little info, and you have to look hard.
>
> That surprises me, I thought that the DSM's had a pretty good
> following among the ricer crowd. I hate Mitsubishis on principle

yeah, more underinformed drivel based purely on lack of experience and
inability.


> , but
> the early Eclipse seemed to be the one car that they managed to screw
> up and actually make somewhat reliable.
>
>> Chevy always has "enthusiasts" and where they lack in that, it's made
>> up by volume.
>> Don't know about Impala though.
>> Bonneville has plenty of enthusiasts out there.
>> Never knew that until we did my son's LIM gaskets and plenum.
>> I never cared for Pontiac. �Too high-class for me.
>> I did have a '61 Ventura that I totaled.
>> Only thing I remember about it is the trans leaked.
>
> I was really disappointed in the average knowledge level of the
> posters to the Impala forums.

hubris and hypocrisy, they name is nathan j nagel.


> Likewise with the Ford truck forums
> (even though the F-series is supposedly the most popular vehicle on
> the planet?) Jeep owners seem to be heavy into DIY which is good,
> there's real basic level DIY instructions posted for just about
> everything, so it's easy to plan a weekend thrash without actually
> having to get under the vehicle beforehand (which is difficult when
> the entire amount of daylight in any given weekday is spent at work
> and not anywhere near vehicle of concern.)
>
>>> The good news is that Jeep owners seem to be just as enthusiastic about
>>> their vehicles as the owners of other vehicles that I've owned in the
>>> past, so I am for the most part finding good info. �Doesn't look like a
>>> lot of people have tried the Centrics on Jeeps yet but at least one
>>> vendor of brake pads recommends them which makes me feel a little better
>>> (found his site while looking for info. on the mid-99 model year
>>> hub/rotor change.)
>>
>> I buy no-name rotors and haven't had a problem with them.
>> But I'm not what you would call an "enthusiast."
>
> Which, truth be told, is probably fine. I just feel better when using
> the best parts possible, especially when I've pared down the stable
> quite a bit and don't have a whole lot of extra vehicles laying around
> (right now I still have the Ford pickup, but that'll be for sale as
> soon as I get caught up on the maintenance on the Jeep.)

you'll never catch up on the maintenance on the jeep because you don't
have the ability to do it yourself. and you won't be able to get other
people to do it for you because you're such a horse's ass, they'll rip
you off and not do the work so you don't go back. just like your
retarded frod.


>
> nate


--
nomina rutrum rutrum

On 01/24/2012 04:54 AM, N8N wrote:
> On Jan 23, 5:51�pm, > wrote:
>> On 1/22/2012 11:29 AM, Vic Smith wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Sounds good for drilled rotors.
>>> I just go to local O'Reilly's and pick them up for $15-20 each.
>>> Not drilled, just plain rotors.
>>> They gave me the right ones for the Lumina
>>> Only put on a few sets or rotors on cars, and they held up and were
>>> never replaced.
>>> Slight scores on rotors don't bother me.
>>> When they get where they dig up the pads too fast I replace them.
>>> Ever since I picked up rotors the FLAPS said fit my Celebrity, but
>>> didn't, I bring the old ones in to match.
>>> Try to do that with most parts.
>>> The Celebrity had heavy-duty rotors for some reason.
>>> They had them at the same store, but didn't ask me if that's what I
>>> needed. �And I didn't know squat.
>>> Hell, it was a different bolt pattern.
>>
>>> --Vic
>>
>> I changed my front pads yesterday on my Hyundai Sonata. I wanted to
>> change the rotors but the darn things are held on with a couple of
>> screws so I need to dig up an impact wrench. If I can't find one, I'll
>> drill those suckers out. I don't intend to replace them either. :-)
>
> A hand impact may work better than an air impact for that application,
> actually. (I'm assuming it's a flat head Phillips screw or similar,
> much like VW used to use. On a VW you really need the screws though
> as they use lug bolts, not lug nuts, and trying to line up a wheel,
> rotor, and hub so you can get the first bolt started can be somewhat
> frustrating.) Likewise the hand impact is the shiznit for door hinge
> screws.

more underinformed unexperienced misinformation propagated by a math
history fudging, wine tasting, lego assembling, can't get his hands
dirty, too tight to buy the proper tools "engineer" - air/electric
impacts work superbly in those situations and much better than hand impacts.

[and for anyone but nate, use a #3 phillips, not #2 - the primary cause
of removal failure is the wrong driver head size.]


--
nomina rutrum rutrum

On Jan 24, 10:52*am, jim beam > wrote:
> On 01/24/2012 04:54 AM, N8N wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 23, 5:51 pm, > *wrote:
> >> On 1/22/2012 11:29 AM, Vic Smith wrote:
>
> >>> Sounds good for drilled rotors.
> >>> I just go to local O'Reilly's and pick them up for $15-20 each.
> >>> Not drilled, just plain rotors.
> >>> They gave me the right ones for the Lumina
> >>> Only put on a few sets or rotors on cars, and they held up and were
> >>> never replaced.
> >>> Slight scores on rotors don't bother me.
> >>> When they get where they dig up the pads too fast I replace them.
> >>> Ever since I picked up rotors the FLAPS said fit my Celebrity, but
> >>> didn't, I bring the old ones in to match.
> >>> Try to do that with most parts.
> >>> The Celebrity had heavy-duty rotors for some reason.
> >>> They had them at the same store, but didn't ask me if that's what I
> >>> needed. And I didn't know squat.
> >>> Hell, it was a different bolt pattern.
>
> >>> --Vic
>
> >> I changed my front pads yesterday on my Hyundai Sonata. I wanted to
> >> change the rotors but the darn things are held on with a couple of
> >> screws so I need to dig up an impact wrench. If I can't find one, I'll
> >> drill those suckers out. I don't intend to replace them either. :-)
>
> > A hand impact may work better than an air impact for that application,
> > actually. *(I'm assuming it's a flat head Phillips screw or similar,
> > much like VW used to use. *On a VW you really need the screws though
> > as they use lug bolts, not lug nuts, and trying to line up a wheel,
> > rotor, and hub so you can get the first bolt started can be somewhat
> > frustrating.) *Likewise the hand impact is the shiznit for door hinge
> > screws.
>
> more underinformed unexperienced misinformation propagated by a math
> history fudging, wine tasting, lego assembling, can't get his hands
> dirty, too tight to buy the proper tools "engineer" - air/electric
> impacts work superbly in those situations and much better than hand impacts.
>

More bull**** from the guy who thinks he knows a hell of a lot more
than he does. The hand impact that you strike with an engineer's
hammer works better. Try 'em both back to back. the air impact will
cam out on the really hard to remove fasteners while the hand impact
won't.

The downside is that it's theoretically rougher on the hub bearings,
but... sometimes you gotta take that risk, when the air impact just
won't work.

It's so rich how you're so quick to condemn those who know what
they're talking about when you obviously haven't a clue.

> [and for anyone but nate, use a #3 phillips, not #2 - the primary cause
> of removal failure is the wrong driver head size.]

That much is true. And make sure that you in fact have Phillips and
not Pozidriv screws - the drivers are subtly different although for
non-seized fasteners functionally interchangeable.

nate

"dsi1" > wrote in message
...
> On 1/22/2012 11:29 AM, Vic Smith wrote:
>> Sounds good for drilled rotors.
>> I just go to local O'Reilly's and pick them up for $15-20 each.
>> Not drilled, just plain rotors.
>> They gave me the right ones for the Lumina
>> Only put on a few sets or rotors on cars, and they held up and were
>> never replaced.
>> Slight scores on rotors don't bother me.
>> When they get where they dig up the pads too fast I replace them.
>> Ever since I picked up rotors the FLAPS said fit my Celebrity, but
>> didn't, I bring the old ones in to match.
>> Try to do that with most parts.
>> The Celebrity had heavy-duty rotors for some reason.
>> They had them at the same store, but didn't ask me if that's what I
>> needed. And I didn't know squat.
>> Hell, it was a different bolt pattern.
>>
>> --Vic
>
> I changed my front pads yesterday on my Hyundai Sonata. I wanted to change
> the rotors but the darn things are held on with a couple of screws so I
> need to dig up an impact wrench. If I can't find one, I'll drill those
> suckers out. I don't intend to replace them either. :-)

Use a hand impact screwdriver, the correct driver bit for
the fastener head and a dead blow hammer or, alternatively
if you don't have one, a block of wood between a metal
hammer and the hand impact screwdriver. Use a light
coating of anti-seeze on the threads and chamfer of the
screw head when reassembling.

> I like the ceramic pads that I installed though. I anticipate not ever
> hearing a peep or a squeak out of them. They were bought off from eBay and
> they're pre-scorched. I don't know what that means but I hope that's a
> good thing. :-)

"N8N" > wrote in message
...

> That much is true. And make sure that you in fact have Phillips and
> not Pozidriv screws - the drivers are subtly different although for
> non-seized fasteners functionally interchangeable.

Don't forget the also somewhat different Reed and Prince (Frearson) cross
head design, the JIS B 1012 type (Japanese improved "Phillips" design) and
the Supadriv (mostly interchangeable with Pozidriv). My experience is that
the Japanese Phillips equivalent work better than the others, or maybe the
Japanese just use better screw material.

Ed