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What's with all the E46 M3 engine problems?



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 23rd 04, 11:45 PM
303squadron
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Default What's with all the E46 M3 engine problems?

How come all the engine problems with the M3 engine in the E46 series? I was
thinking of getting an early one now that they are hitting the $35,000 mark,
but all the recalls have me worried. I don't want to buy into a maintenance
hog - especially an expensive maintenance hog.

I thought BMW really knew how to engineer in-line sixes well.

- 303sq


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  #2  
Old October 24th 04, 12:08 AM
fbloogyudsr
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"303squadron" > wrote
> How come all the engine problems with the M3 engine in the E46 series? I
> was
> thinking of getting an early one now that they are hitting the $35,000
> mark,
> but all the recalls have me worried. I don't want to buy into a
> maintenance
> hog - especially an expensive maintenance hog.


The *only* problem with the engines is a problem with the connecting rods at
the crankshaft. Seems like there is too little lubrication, or excessive
wear on
the bearing inserts.

> I thought BMW really knew how to engineer in-line sixes well.


They do, but this is the first one that has an 8000 rpm redline.

Floydr

  #3  
Old October 24th 04, 04:49 AM
GRL
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Not exactly. There was an engine oil pump recall, too, along with bearings
in 2002.

http://members.roadfly.org/jason/m3engines.htm

There are some owner reports of engine failures into at least the 2003 model
year, which is suspicious given that BMW knew there was a problem in 2002.
Maybe a case of a very early 2003 model. maybe not.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70630

In any case, the prudent 2001/2002/2003 used M3 buyer will make damned sure
that the recalls (or engine replacement) have been made before even looking
at a car for a second.

It is unfortunate that BMW let this happen, although to their credit after,
some initial blame-the-owner foot dragging, they do seem to be doing the
right thing.

http://yoy.com/auto/m3_failmedia.shtml

By way of comparison the 2 liter four in the Honda S2000 makes more power
per liter than the BMW S54 engine, revs way higher, needs to be revved high
to make any real power (so it is likely to spend more time at high revs),
has variable valve timing and it has been bullet-proof. I think BMW could
learn a thing or two about high specific output, high rpm engine design from
the engineers at Honda, in this case. I guess it makes sense since Honda has
way more experience with very high rpm, very high specific output engines
than BMW (via their motorcycles...and even the high revving NSX that has
been around for over a decade).

As I say, at least they seem to be doing the right thing now and hopefully
the fixes actually work.

Anyone know if the blown up S54 engine problems disappeared after the 2003
model year?

Would be really nice to see that they did.


George Litwinski
"fbloogyudsr" > wrote in message
...
> "303squadron" > wrote
> > How come all the engine problems with the M3 engine in the E46 series? I
> > was
> > thinking of getting an early one now that they are hitting the $35,000
> > mark,
> > but all the recalls have me worried. I don't want to buy into a
> > maintenance
> > hog - especially an expensive maintenance hog.

>
> The *only* problem with the engines is a problem with the connecting rods

at
> the crankshaft. Seems like there is too little lubrication, or excessive
> wear on
> the bearing inserts.
>
> > I thought BMW really knew how to engineer in-line sixes well.

>
> They do, but this is the first one that has an 8000 rpm redline.
>
> Floydr
>



  #4  
Old October 24th 04, 08:56 AM
TonyK
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"303squadron" > wrote in message
...
> How come all the engine problems with the M3 engine in the E46 series? I

was
> thinking of getting an early one now that they are hitting the $35,000

mark,
> but all the recalls have me worried. I don't want to buy into a

maintenance
> hog - especially an expensive maintenance hog.
>
> I thought BMW really knew how to engineer in-line sixes well.
>
> - 303sq
>
>


From the sounds of it you're in the US? If so, don't worry. In the US BMW
has extended the engine warranty to 100,000 miles or 6 years. Unlike in the
UK where BMW they say they don't need to!


  #5  
Old October 24th 04, 12:03 PM
John Carrier
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Default

SNIP

> By way of comparison the 2 liter four in the Honda S2000 makes more power
> per liter than the BMW S54 engine, revs way higher, needs to be revved
> high
> to make any real power (so it is likely to spend more time at high revs),
> has variable valve timing and it has been bullet-proof. I think BMW could
> learn a thing or two about high specific output, high rpm engine design
> from
> the engineers at Honda, in this case. I guess it makes sense since Honda
> has
> way more experience with very high rpm, very high specific output engines
> than BMW (via their motorcycles...and even the high revving NSX that has
> been around for over a decade).


I think they could have done just as well learning from their own engineers
in the GP engine effort. Specific output of the 3 liter GP engine is a bit
over 300hp/liter.

R / John


  #7  
Old October 24th 04, 06:35 PM
GRL
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Maybe. Design for racing where money is no object (especially F1) and
engines have short lifetimes between rebuilds is pretty different from
designing for street use where people expect engines to last for a decade
with little maintenance and money is very definitely an object.

Whatever. They screwed the pooch on this one.


George Litwinski"

John Carrier" > wrote in message
...
> SNIP
>
> > By way of comparison the 2 liter four in the Honda S2000 makes more

power
> > per liter than the BMW S54 engine, revs way higher, needs to be revved
> > high
> > to make any real power (so it is likely to spend more time at high

revs),
> > has variable valve timing and it has been bullet-proof. I think BMW

could
> > learn a thing or two about high specific output, high rpm engine design
> > from
> > the engineers at Honda, in this case. I guess it makes sense since Honda
> > has
> > way more experience with very high rpm, very high specific output

engines
> > than BMW (via their motorcycles...and even the high revving NSX that has
> > been around for over a decade).

>
> I think they could have done just as well learning from their own

engineers
> in the GP engine effort. Specific output of the 3 liter GP engine is a

bit
> over 300hp/liter.
>
> R / John
>
>



  #8  
Old October 24th 04, 06:38 PM
GRL
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

You're kidding! Maybe there are laws in Europe that will force BMW to do the
right thing without a formal extended warranty.

In any case, a 2001 M3 is some four years old, still costs $35,000 and two
years of warranty coverage with a potential $17,000 engine replacement after
the warranty runs out is NOT a thrilling concept. I'd make sure all recalls
have been done. Probably rare to find a case where they have not, anyway.

- GRL

"TonyK" > wrote in message
...
>
> "303squadron" > wrote in message
> ...
> > How come all the engine problems with the M3 engine in the E46 series? I

> was
> > thinking of getting an early one now that they are hitting the $35,000

> mark,
> > but all the recalls have me worried. I don't want to buy into a

> maintenance
> > hog - especially an expensive maintenance hog.
> >
> > I thought BMW really knew how to engineer in-line sixes well.
> >
> > - 303sq
> >
> >

>
> From the sounds of it you're in the US? If so, don't worry. In the US BMW
> has extended the engine warranty to 100,000 miles or 6 years. Unlike in

the
> UK where BMW they say they don't need to!
>
>



  #9  
Old October 24th 04, 09:26 PM
TonyK
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"GRL" > wrote in message
...
> You're kidding! Maybe there are laws in Europe that will force BMW to do

the
> right thing without a formal extended warranty.


Unfortunately not, mine is up to date on all recalls and will be 3 years old
in March '05 with prob. around 25,000 miles by then. If the engine does go
I'll be the one who suffers. I think I am right in saying BMW Uk is just
about the only BMW "company" who does not feel it needs to guarantee its
repair work (sorry, "service action").

>
> In any case, a 2001 M3 is some four years old, still costs $35,000 and two
> years of warranty coverage with a potential $17,000 engine replacement

after
> the warranty runs out is NOT a thrilling concept. I'd make sure all

recalls
> have been done. Probably rare to find a case where they have not, anyway.
>
> - GRL
>





  #10  
Old October 24th 04, 09:28 PM
Brian Downing
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"330xi" > writes:

> if you stay up-to-date on these issues, the lattest information is that BMW
> finally figured out that the bearings
> made by a subcontractor were not made to BMW specification.
> this issue now rectified, i'm sure BMW will deal with the manufacturer and
> assure proper compliance.
>
> the design is not at fault here but execution and third party dropping the
> ball


It's all part of the same plan. Choosing to work with a 3rd party for
parts and not checking the quality.

I have one of the E46 M3's that got a rod knock, and a new(rebuilt)
motor, and it also needs to be brought in for new bearings. My local
dealer, PRINCETON BMW, is run/staffed by IDIOTS. The very thought
of them opening the motor makes me ill.


--

 




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