Hello Again... I'm back....

StephenW wrote:
> Did a all data search, Honda shows the neat little tool for removing ball
> joints, but Subaru says "seperate ball joint" with no instructions.

why would they? if they don't actually tell you to use a 4lb hammer,
why would you assume it's ok to use one???


> I'll go
> by the Honda Shop and ask how they do it, in the real world.
> Steve
>
>

jim beam > wrote in
t:

> StephenW wrote:
>> Did a all data search, Honda shows the neat little tool for removing
>> ball joints, but Subaru says "seperate ball joint" with no
>> instructions.
>
> why would they? if they don't actually tell you to use a 4lb hammer,
> why would you assume it's ok to use one???
>
>


My mechanic also does the 4lb hammer thing. He's done that for the last 30
years or so. He explained to me what to do, but I've never worked up the
nerve to try it.

I've never actually watched him do it though. That's why I'm interested in
StephenW's video.

--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Tegger wrote:
> jim beam > wrote in
> t:
>
>> StephenW wrote:
>>> Did a all data search, Honda shows the neat little tool for removing
>>> ball joints, but Subaru says "seperate ball joint" with no
>>> instructions.
>> why would they? if they don't actually tell you to use a 4lb hammer,
>> why would you assume it's ok to use one???
>>
>>
>
>
> My mechanic also does the 4lb hammer thing.

you had a ball joint fatigue and fail didn't you? did he ever do this
to your car before that happened?


> He's done that for the last 30
> years or so. He explained to me what to do, but I've never worked up the
> nerve to try it.
>
> I've never actually watched him do it though. That's why I'm interested in
> StephenW's video.
>

jeepers... like i say, you can use a hammer and chisel to remove lug
nuts, but that doesn't mean you should. and do any of these clowns ever
decide to be aircraft techs? i sincerely hope not.

jim beam > wrote in
:

> Tegger wrote:
>> jim beam > wrote in
>> t:
>>
>>> StephenW wrote:
>>>> Did a all data search, Honda shows the neat little tool for
>>>> removing ball joints, but Subaru says "seperate ball joint" with no
>>>> instructions.
>>> why would they? if they don't actually tell you to use a 4lb
>>> hammer, why would you assume it's ok to use one???
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> My mechanic also does the 4lb hammer thing.
>
> you had a ball joint fatigue and fail didn't you? did he ever do this
> to your car before that happened?



My balljoint did not fail due to fatigue. It failed by seizing up due to
rust. Once it seized up solid, the post then broke off.



>
>
>> He's done that for the last 30
>> years or so. He explained to me what to do, but I've never worked up
>> the nerve to try it.
>>
>> I've never actually watched him do it though. That's why I'm
>> interested in StephenW's video.
>>
>
> jeepers... like i say, you can use a hammer and chisel to remove lug
> nuts, but that doesn't mean you should. and do any of these clowns
> ever decide to be aircraft techs? i sincerely hope not.
>



jim, talk to some pro's. You'll find lots of them use this method.


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Tegger wrote:
> jim beam > wrote in
> :
>
>> Tegger wrote:
>>> jim beam > wrote in
>>> t:
>>>
>>>> StephenW wrote:
>>>>> Did a all data search, Honda shows the neat little tool for
>>>>> removing ball joints, but Subaru says "seperate ball joint" with no
>>>>> instructions.
>>>> why would they? if they don't actually tell you to use a 4lb
>>>> hammer, why would you assume it's ok to use one???
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> My mechanic also does the 4lb hammer thing.
>> you had a ball joint fatigue and fail didn't you? did he ever do this
>> to your car before that happened?
>
>
>
> My balljoint did not fail due to fatigue. It failed by seizing up due to
> rust. Once it seized up solid, the post then broke off.

that was probably fatigue.


>
>
>
>>
>>> He's done that for the last 30
>>> years or so. He explained to me what to do, but I've never worked up
>>> the nerve to try it.
>>>
>>> I've never actually watched him do it though. That's why I'm
>>> interested in StephenW's video.
>>>
>> jeepers... like i say, you can use a hammer and chisel to remove lug
>> nuts, but that doesn't mean you should. and do any of these clowns
>> ever decide to be aircraft techs? i sincerely hope not.
>>
>
>
>
> jim, talk to some pro's. You'll find lots of them use this method.
>
>

i used to be a pro, thanks. where i worked, you wouldn't consider using
a hammer to do this stuff unless it was on something to be discarded
afterwards.

jim beam wrote:

> StephenW wrote:
>
>> "Tegger" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>> "StephenW" > wrote in
>>> :
>>>
>>>
>>>> If you need any info tegger, beam and mr. grumpie, Ping me.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Have you been following the thread entitled
>>> "'Black Box' information retention"?
>>>
>>> What do you know about that subject?
>>>
>>> I had some info given to me by a very knowledgeable person, but his info
>>> was more specific to Toyota, which he didn't tell me at first.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Tegger
>>>
>>> The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
>>> www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
>>
>>
>>
>> I read it, and remember a bit of light info concerning it a few years
>> ago, but have seen nothing of it "in the field" Next spring when they
>> send me to the first Subaru Tech class I will ask the instructor what
>> he knows of it in the Subaru line.
>> Did the Windstar inner tie rod and hub assy; 3 hits to the side if the
>> tie rod attach point and the tier rod was loose.
>
>
> as were all the bearings after you brinelled them...
>
> use the correct freakin' tool and do what it says in the freakin' book.
> people don't bother to write procedures just so morons with 4lb hammers
> can ignore them.


Uh, the technique of removing tie rods/ball joints with a sharp blow to
the side with a sizable ball peen has been used by zillions of mechanics
for years ans is far better for the components than some of the
separator tools available.

JT

StephenW wrote:

>>please don't. it's extremely bad practice and is guaranteed to f-up when
>>done by an amateur. especially on something older that's had a chance to
>>rust and seize.
>
>
>
>
> I watch it being done every day, by 4 other Master Techs. I will look
> tommorow and see what the "Proper" way and tools are, and if provided by
> Subaru or the Snap-on dealer. I have never damaged a car doing this or seen
> one damaged in this method.. If it don't get free in a few good wacks (or
> has tons of rust on it), you may have other problems.
> It is a trick of the trade, nothing more, and it works.
> The one thing you learn in a shop is what techniques you can use to save
> time.
>
> Take Care, Steve
>
>

Right you are!

The sharp blow releases the tapered fit via the "shock" application. No
stress on the actual components.

I first learned of the techinque from the family mechanic thirty-five
years ago and nothing has changed much in the way of design of joints...

JT

Tegger wrote:

> jim beam > wrote in
> t:
>
>
>>StephenW wrote:
>>
>>>Did a all data search, Honda shows the neat little tool for removing
>>>ball joints, but Subaru says "seperate ball joint" with no
>>>instructions.
>>
>>why would they? if they don't actually tell you to use a 4lb hammer,
>>why would you assume it's ok to use one???
>>
>>
>
>
>
> My mechanic also does the 4lb hammer thing. He's done that for the last 30
> years or so. He explained to me what to do, but I've never worked up the
> nerve to try it.
>
> I've never actually watched him do it though. That's why I'm interested in
> StephenW's video.
>


Just remember that you do not hit the actual joint... Just the adjacent
component such as a steering knuckle etc.

The release is the result from "shock" from the blow.

JT

"Grumpy AuContraire" > wrote
> The sharp blow releases the tapered fit via the "shock"
> application. No stress on the actual components.

I bought a ball joint (tapered fit blah blah) separator tool
a couple of years ago and like it. However, last month at
the junkyard, while going after a control arm and not having
the separator tool with me, I tried the "whack" with the
hammer approach. It worked great, and my sense is that I
spare wear and tear on the ball joint boot, for one thing.

The (highly regarded and thoughtful) auto suspension course
instructor I had a few years ago also approved of this
technique.

> I first learned of the techinque from the family mechanic
> thirty-five years ago and nothing has changed much in the
> way of design of joints...


Good luck in your new Subaru job, StephenW. Always
interesting to hear about techs' careers. Though I do worry
about what you folks do to preserve your physical health...
take good care; safety first. (I ain't perfect at it but I
do constantly try to think, "Is there a safer way and/or a
way that will spare my back; elbow tendons; knees; etc.?")

Elle wrote:
> "Grumpy AuContraire" > wrote
>
>>The sharp blow releases the tapered fit via the "shock"
>>application. No stress on the actual components.
>
>
> I bought a ball joint (tapered fit blah blah) separator tool
> a couple of years ago and like it. However, last month at
> the junkyard, while going after a control arm and not having
> the separator tool with me, I tried the "whack" with the
> hammer approach. It worked great, and my sense is that I
> spare wear and tear on the ball joint boot, for one thing.
>

Exactly.

Them thar' boots are hard to replace so one should avoid splitting 'em.


> The (highly regarded and thoughtful) auto suspension course
> instructor I had a few years ago also approved of this
> technique.
>
>

He's probably "old" school.

JT

(Older than dirt...)