2004 Accord, 4-cyl -- Adjustable Valves?

Pszemol wrote:
> One of the item on the dealer's 60k maintenance list is:
>
> Adjust Intake/Exhaust Valves, Replace Valve Cover Gasket
>
> My question to the group is: how involved is this procedure?

if it's not vtec, it's very straightforward. if it is vtec, you may
need an air tool to activate the valve gear.


> How do you
> adjust valves on this engine? Are they really adjustable?

yes.


> I am not a
> mechanic, but I have heard about such thing as hydraulic lifters, which
> do not need adjusting - can you fill me in, please ?

hydraulic lifters are used on p.o.s. cars that use soft crummy
componentry that wears quickly - it's the only way to accommodate the
high wear rate.


>
>
> On a little different subject - on the same dealer's list there are
> items like "Lubrication Package" (part of the "minor maintenance service")
> and "Clean/Lubricate Throttle Linkage (If appl)" (this item is a part of
> the 60k/120k maintenance). What is in this car requiring lubrication?
> Doors and hood hinges? Or some suspension parts? And how do you
> lubricate throttle linkage? Are they talking about squirting some WD40
> into my throttle cable or disassembling intake and cleaning the butterfly?
>

"jim beam" > wrote in message
...
> Pszemol wrote:
>> One of the item on the dealer's 60k maintenance list is:
>>
>> Adjust Intake/Exhaust Valves, Replace Valve Cover Gasket
>>
>> My question to the group is: how involved is this procedure?
>
> if it's not vtec, it's very straightforward. if it is vtec, you may need
> an air tool to activate the valve gear.

Can accord 2004 have anything else than a VTEC engine?

>> How do you adjust valves on this engine? Are they really adjustable?
>
> yes.
>
>
>> I am not a mechanic, but I have heard about such thing as hydraulic
>> lifters, which do not need adjusting - can you fill me in, please ?
>
> hydraulic lifters are used on p.o.s. cars that use soft crummy componentry
> that wears quickly - it's the only way to accommodate the high wear rate.

Apparently it is a very good way because my 95 toyota camry with 246k miles
did not require adjustment yet. It must be made with very soft and very
crummy componentry and that is why it is so reliable for so many years with
no trouble.

I love people adding philosophy like that to the old fashioned design
requiring costly dicking with the manual adjustments :-)))
Personally I was surprised to find honda using this design in a modern car.
Aparently it has to have some benefits, at least to them if not to the car
owner forced to pay for this service done every 25k miles...
So I wonder now, what is the benefit of having to adjust valves every other
year compared to hydraulic lifters?

"Pszemol" > wrote in
:

> "jim beam" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Pszemol wrote:
>>> One of the item on the dealer's 60k maintenance list is:
>>>
>>> Adjust Intake/Exhaust Valves, Replace Valve Cover Gasket
>>>
>>> My question to the group is: how involved is this procedure?
>>
>> if it's not vtec, it's very straightforward. if it is vtec, you may
>> need an air tool to activate the valve gear.
>
> Can accord 2004 have anything else than a VTEC engine?
>
>>> How do you adjust valves on this engine? Are they really adjustable?
>>
>> yes.
>>
>>
>>> I am not a mechanic, but I have heard about such thing as hydraulic
>>> lifters, which do not need adjusting - can you fill me in, please ?
>>
>> hydraulic lifters are used on p.o.s. cars that use soft crummy
>> componentry that wears quickly - it's the only way to accommodate the
>> high wear rate.
>
> Apparently it is a very good way because my 95 toyota camry with 246k
> miles did not require adjustment yet. It must be made with very soft
> and very crummy componentry and that is why it is so reliable for so
> many years with no trouble.



I think your Camry has a non-hydraulic design with shims atop the valve
bucket. The cam and the valve would be in direct contact via the valve
bucket. There would not be the nut-and-screw-and-lifter assembly that the
Honda has between cam and valve.


>
> I love people adding philosophy like that to the old fashioned design
> requiring costly dicking with the manual adjustments :-)))
> Personally I was surprised to find honda using this design in a modern
> car. Aparently it has to have some benefits, at least to them if not
> to the car owner forced to pay for this service done every 25k
> miles... So I wonder now, what is the benefit of having to adjust
> valves every other year compared to hydraulic lifters?
>
>


Mechanical lifters are more forgiving of neglected oil changes.


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

"Tegger" > wrote in message
...
> I think your Camry has a non-hydraulic design with shims atop the valve
> bucket. The cam and the valve would be in direct contact via the valve
> bucket. There would not be the nut-and-screw-and-lifter assembly that the
> Honda has between cam and valve.

Yes, it is shim system - I was wrong about hydraulic lifters.
Now I think it should be due for a service then after 246 miles :-)

> Mechanical lifters are more forgiving of neglected oil changes.

I guess, we can count it as a benefit... thanks.

"Pszemol" > wrote in
:

> "Tegger" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I think your Camry has a non-hydraulic design with shims atop the
>> valve bucket. The cam and the valve would be in direct contact via
>> the valve bucket. There would not be the nut-and-screw-and-lifter
>> assembly that the Honda has between cam and valve.
>
> Yes, it is shim system - I was wrong about hydraulic lifters.
> Now I think it should be due for a service then after 246 miles :-)



Toyota's clearances for their system are extremely loose compared to those
for our Hondas, so chances are yours are still within spec even now.

Howver, they ought to be checked anyway after that kind of mileage. Better
check than risk a burnt exhaust valve.



>
>> Mechanical lifters are more forgiving of neglected oil changes.
>
> I guess, we can count it as a benefit... thanks.
>
>



I'd say so.

The primary justifications for hydraulic lifters are reduced valvetrain
noise and reduced maintenance requirements (no valve adjustments).


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Tegger wrote:
> "Pszemol" > wrote in
> :
>
>> "Tegger" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> I think your Camry has a non-hydraulic design with shims atop the
>>> valve bucket. The cam and the valve would be in direct contact via
>>> the valve bucket. There would not be the nut-and-screw-and-lifter
>>> assembly that the Honda has between cam and valve.
>> Yes, it is shim system - I was wrong about hydraulic lifters.
>> Now I think it should be due for a service then after 246 miles :-)
>
>
>
> Toyota's clearances for their system are extremely loose compared to those
> for our Hondas, so chances are yours are still within spec even now.
>
> Howver, they ought to be checked anyway after that kind of mileage. Better
> check than risk a burnt exhaust valve.
>
>
>
>>> Mechanical lifters are more forgiving of neglected oil changes.
>> I guess, we can count it as a benefit... thanks.
>>
>>
>
>
>
> I'd say so.
>
> The primary justifications for hydraulic lifters are reduced valvetrain
> noise and reduced maintenance requirements (no valve adjustments).
>
>

mechanicals are also lighter and therefore operate at higher rpm's -
also something relevant to hondas more than toyotas.

jim beam > wrote in
t:

> Tegger wrote:
>> "Pszemol" > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> "Tegger" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> I think your Camry has a non-hydraulic design with shims atop the
>>>> valve bucket. The cam and the valve would be in direct contact via
>>>> the valve bucket. There would not be the nut-and-screw-and-lifter
>>>> assembly that the Honda has between cam and valve.
>>> Yes, it is shim system - I was wrong about hydraulic lifters.
>>> Now I think it should be due for a service then after 246 miles :-)
>>
>>
>>
>> Toyota's clearances for their system are extremely loose compared to
>> those for our Hondas, so chances are yours are still within spec even
>> now.
>>
>> Howver, they ought to be checked anyway after that kind of mileage.
>> Better check than risk a burnt exhaust valve.
>>
>>
>>
>>>> Mechanical lifters are more forgiving of neglected oil changes.
>>> I guess, we can count it as a benefit... thanks.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I'd say so.
>>
>> The primary justifications for hydraulic lifters are reduced
>> valvetrain noise and reduced maintenance requirements (no valve
>> adjustments).
>>
>>
>
> mechanicals are also lighter and therefore operate at higher rpm's -
> also something relevant to hondas more than toyotas.
>


Toyota's mechanical design is even lighter than that used by Honda; the
entire lifter/adjuster assembly is eliminated.


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

"Tegger" > wrote in message
...
> "Pszemol" > wrote in
> :
>
>> "Tegger" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> I think your Camry has a non-hydraulic design with shims atop the
>>> valve bucket. The cam and the valve would be in direct contact via
>>> the valve bucket. There would not be the nut-and-screw-and-lifter
>>> assembly that the Honda has between cam and valve.
>>
>> Yes, it is shim system - I was wrong about hydraulic lifters.
>> Now I think it should be due for a service then after 246 miles :-)
>
>
>
> Toyota's clearances for their system are extremely loose compared to those
> for our Hondas, so chances are yours are still within spec even now.
>
> Howver, they ought to be checked anyway after that kind of mileage.
> Better check than risk a burnt exhaust valve.

Yes, they supposed to be checked every 60k miles according to maintenance
schedule.

> The primary justifications for hydraulic lifters are reduced valvetrain
> noise and reduced maintenance requirements (no valve adjustments).

Sounds ok. Thanks.

Sure, besides the wear and tear on springs and lobes, the valve seats
wear from repeated closings of the valves. I recall reading that noisy
valve (loose clearance) is less of a problem on (at least some) Hondas
than burnt valve (tight clearance) because of this.

And burnt valve problems are silent. So do check the clearances to
make sure they are in spec.

Now what's the advantage of the adjuster type design Honda used
instead of the 1960s Italian shim-over-bucket that VW also licensed
back then?

Recessed springs/raised springs a factor? etc etc?


On Sep 1, 10:48*am, Tegger > wrote:
> Howver, they ought to be checked anyway after that kind of mileage. Better
> check than risk a burnt exhaust valve.

wrote in
:

> Sure, besides the wear and tear on springs and lobes, the valve seats
> wear from repeated closings of the valves. I recall reading that noisy
> valve (loose clearance) is less of a problem on (at least some) Hondas
> than burnt valve (tight clearance) because of this.


The was a brief run of CR-V heads around 1998 that had a problem with valve
seat recession. No other Honda models suffers from this. It's those CR-V's
that require loose valve clearances.


>
> And burnt valve problems are silent. So do check the clearances to
> make sure they are in spec.
>
> Now what's the advantage of the adjuster type design Honda used
> instead of the 1960s Italian shim-over-bucket that VW also licensed
> back then?
>
> Recessed springs/raised springs a factor? etc etc?


That's a very good question, and I don't know the answer.

Toyota had been migrating their OHC engines to the shim-and-bucket design
since the early '80s, while Honda has retained the traditional design.




--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/