2004 Accord, 4-cyl -- Adjustable Valves?

Sam Bell of Motor Magazine's comments:

http://www.motor.com/magazine/pdfs/082007_09.pdf

"Some manufacturers, like Honda, now recommend adjustments only when
the valves are noisy. I question this advice, however, since my own
experience has shown that Honda valve clearances
tend to tighten rather than loosen as they wear, and are therefore
more likely to need adjustment when they’re quiet. In fact, I have
cured several complaints centered on poor fuel economy in Honda
products with just a good valve adjustment. Honda’s MAP-based fuel
strategy means that low engine vacuum resulting from poor breathing
will be mistaken for high engine loads."



On Sep 9, 2:33*pm, Tegger > wrote:
> Goes either way, depending on who knows what. I'd say, statistically, there
> is about a 50-50 chance of either wear manifestation, IF there is a change
> at all.
>
> For most of your valves most of the time there will be no apparent change
> from one inspection to the next. But then one year you will find one or two
> valves out of spec.
>
> You still need to check them according to the schedule, since otherwise you
> never know if anything has changed, what has changed, or which way the
> change may happen.
>
> --
> Tegger
>
> The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQwww.tegger.com/hondafaq/

wrote:
> Sam Bell of Motor Magazine's comments:
>
> http://www.motor.com/magazine/pdfs/082007_09.pdf
>
> "Some manufacturers, like Honda, now recommend adjustments only when
> the valves are noisy. I question this advice, however, since my own
> experience has shown that Honda valve clearances
> tend to tighten rather than loosen as they wear, and are therefore
> more likely to need adjustment when they�re quiet.

ok.


> In fact, I have
> cured several complaints centered on poor fuel economy in Honda
> products with just a good valve adjustment. Honda�s MAP-based fuel
> strategy means that low engine vacuum resulting from poor breathing
> will be mistaken for high engine loads."

i can tell you for fact, from direct personal experience, from running a
honda d-series zc cam, with higher lift and much longer duration than
any stock cam, that "breathing problems" due to tightened clearances is
complete and utter bull****. the zc cam has those valves open way
longer than possible with a stock cam and merely maladjusted valves.

now, if the clearances are so tight that a valve is open all the time,
that's a different matter, but i can tell you again from direct personal
experience, that it's accompanied by valve burn-out.

lastly, honda doesn't measure load simply from vacuum [see the cam
situation above], but from what it knows it's injecting relative to
rpms. no "mistakes".

bottom line - this guy is badly underinformed and simply bull****ting.



>
>
>
> On Sep 9, 2:33�pm, Tegger > wrote:
>> Goes either way, depending on who knows what. I'd say, statistically, there
>> is about a 50-50 chance of either wear manifestation, IF there is a change
>> at all.
>>
>> For most of your valves most of the time there will be no apparent change
>> from one inspection to the next. But then one year you will find one or two
>> valves out of spec.
>>
>> You still need to check them according to the schedule, since otherwise you
>> never know if anything has changed, what has changed, or which way the
>> change may happen.
>>
>> --
>> Tegger
>>
>> The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQwww.tegger.com/hondafaq/
>

You've yet to address whether valves tighten or loosen beyond
specification as they wear.



On Sep 9, 10:21*pm, jim beam > wrote:
> wrote:
> > Sam Bell of Motor Magazine's comments:
>
> >http://www.motor.com/magazine/pdfs/082007_09.pdf
>
> > "Some manufacturers, like Honda, now recommend adjustments only when
> > the valves are noisy. I question this advice, however, since my own
> > experience has shown that Honda valve clearances
> > tend to tighten rather than loosen as they wear, and are therefore
> > more likely to need adjustment when they re quiet.
>
> ok.
>
> > In fact, I have
> > cured several complaints centered on poor fuel economy in Honda
> > products with just a good valve adjustment. Honda s MAP-based fuel
> > strategy means that low engine vacuum resulting from poor breathing
> > will be mistaken for high engine loads."
>
> i can tell you for fact, from direct personal experience, from running a
> honda d-series zc cam, with higher lift and much longer duration than
> any stock cam, that "breathing problems" due to tightened clearances is
> complete and utter bull****. *the zc cam has those valves open way
> longer than possible with a stock cam and merely maladjusted valves.
>
> now, if the clearances are so tight that a valve is open all the time,
> that's a different matter, but i can tell you again from direct personal
> experience, that it's accompanied by valve burn-out.
>
> lastly, honda doesn't measure load simply from vacuum [see the cam
> situation above], but from what it knows it's injecting relative to
> rpms. *no "mistakes".
>
> bottom line - this guy is badly underinformed and simply bull****ting.
>
>
>
> > On Sep 9, 2:33 pm, Tegger > wrote:
> >> Goes either way, depending on who knows what. I'd say, statistically, there
> >> is about a 50-50 chance of either wear manifestation, IF there is a change
> >> at all.
>
> >> For most of your valves most of the time there will be no apparent change
> >> from one inspection to the next. But then one year you will find one or two
> >> valves out of spec.
>
> >> You still need to check them according to the schedule, since otherwise you
> >> never know if anything has changed, what has changed, or which way the
> >> change may happen.
>
> >> --
> >> Tegger
>
> >> The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQwww.tegger.com/hondafaq/

wrote in
:

> You've yet to address whether valves tighten or loosen beyond
> specification as they wear.



It can happen either way. Personally, in my own experience, I see no bias
one way or the other.

In any case, it does not matter one way or the other. If they are to go out
of spec (and they will), you need to check them.

Why are you so concerned about which way they will wear? Are you trying to
avoid inspecting your own valves?


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

wrote:
> You've yet to address whether valves tighten or loosen beyond
> specification as they wear.

go back and check my post of 9/9.


>
>
>
> On Sep 9, 10:21�pm, jim beam > wrote:
>> wrote:
>>> Sam Bell of Motor Magazine's comments:
>>> http://www.motor.com/magazine/pdfs/082007_09.pdf
>>> "Some manufacturers, like Honda, now recommend adjustments only when
>>> the valves are noisy. I question this advice, however, since my own
>>> experience has shown that Honda valve clearances
>>> tend to tighten rather than loosen as they wear, and are therefore
>>> more likely to need adjustment when they re quiet.
>> ok.
>>
>>> In fact, I have
>>> cured several complaints centered on poor fuel economy in Honda
>>> products with just a good valve adjustment. Honda s MAP-based fuel
>>> strategy means that low engine vacuum resulting from poor breathing
>>> will be mistaken for high engine loads."
>> i can tell you for fact, from direct personal experience, from running a
>> honda d-series zc cam, with higher lift and much longer duration than
>> any stock cam, that "breathing problems" due to tightened clearances is
>> complete and utter bull****. �the zc cam has those valves open way
>> longer than possible with a stock cam and merely maladjusted valves.
>>
>> now, if the clearances are so tight that a valve is open all the time,
>> that's a different matter, but i can tell you again from direct personal
>> experience, that it's accompanied by valve burn-out.
>>
>> lastly, honda doesn't measure load simply from vacuum [see the cam
>> situation above], but from what it knows it's injecting relative to
>> rpms. �no "mistakes".
>>
>> bottom line - this guy is badly underinformed and simply bull****ting.
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Sep 9, 2:33 pm, Tegger > wrote:
>>>> Goes either way, depending on who knows what. I'd say, statistically, there
>>>> is about a 50-50 chance of either wear manifestation, IF there is a change
>>>> at all.
>>>> For most of your valves most of the time there will be no apparent change
>>>> from one inspection to the next. But then one year you will find one or two
>>>> valves out of spec.
>>>> You still need to check them according to the schedule, since otherwise you
>>>> never know if anything has changed, what has changed, or which way the
>>>> change may happen.
>>>> --
>>>> Tegger
>>>> The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQwww.tegger.com/hondafaq/
>

"Tegger" > wrote in message
...
> It can happen either way. Personally, in my own experience, I see no bias
> one way or the other.
>
> In any case, it does not matter one way or the other. If they are to go
> out
> of spec (and they will), you need to check them.

Agree.

> Why are you so concerned about which way they will wear? Are you trying to
> avoid inspecting your own valves?

I cannot tell why he is asking, but I was asking mostly from curiosity.
If this was true that the gap could only widen than you probably could
use audible clues instead of removing valve cover and using feeler gauge.

I have heard about some professional diagnostic tool which uses several
microphones strategically placed in the engine compartment and computer
calculating preciselly the sound direction and distance (3D) from the sound
born signal microphones generate.
This way they could pin point some bearing is going out before it happens
even somewhere deep in the engine or transmission just by listening to it.

I am not sure how this diagnostic device is called in pro world but if your
ears are as good than I guess you do not need to open the valve cover
to check the gap - you can tell something is wrong just by listening :-)))

"Pszemol" > wrote in
:

> "Tegger" > wrote in message
> ...
>> It can happen either way. Personally, in my own experience, I see no
>> bias one way or the other.
>>
>> In any case, it does not matter one way or the other. If they are to
>> go out
>> of spec (and they will), you need to check them.
>
> Agree.
>
>> Why are you so concerned about which way they will wear? Are you
>> trying to avoid inspecting your own valves?
>
> I cannot tell why he is asking, but I was asking mostly from
> curiosity. If this was true that the gap could only widen than you
> probably could use audible clues instead of removing valve cover and
> using feeler gauge.
>
> I have heard about some professional diagnostic tool which uses
> several microphones strategically placed in the engine compartment and
> computer calculating preciselly the sound direction and distance (3D)
> from the sound born signal microphones generate.
> This way they could pin point some bearing is going out before it
> happens even somewhere deep in the engine or transmission just by
> listening to it.
>



What you describe may make sense if the vehicle in question is a Bugatti
Veyron, or a strip-mine dump truck costing a couple of mil, but for your
average consumer automobile, nobody's going to spend that kind of money.
Simply performing a valve check would be quite a LOT cheaper.

--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Tegger wrote:
> "Pszemol" > wrote in
> :
>
>> "Tegger" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> It can happen either way. Personally, in my own experience, I see no
>>> bias one way or the other.
>>>
>>> In any case, it does not matter one way or the other. If they are to
>>> go out
>>> of spec (and they will), you need to check them.
>> Agree.
>>
>>> Why are you so concerned about which way they will wear? Are you
>>> trying to avoid inspecting your own valves?
>> I cannot tell why he is asking, but I was asking mostly from
>> curiosity. If this was true that the gap could only widen than you
>> probably could use audible clues instead of removing valve cover and
>> using feeler gauge.
>>
>> I have heard about some professional diagnostic tool which uses
>> several microphones strategically placed in the engine compartment and
>> computer calculating preciselly the sound direction and distance (3D)
>> from the sound born signal microphones generate.
>> This way they could pin point some bearing is going out before it
>> happens even somewhere deep in the engine or transmission just by
>> listening to it.
>>
>
>
>
> What you describe may make sense if the vehicle in question is a Bugatti
> Veyron, or a strip-mine dump truck costing a couple of mil, but for your
> average consumer automobile, nobody's going to spend that kind of money.
> Simply performing a valve check would be quite a LOT cheaper.
>

not to mention that even /with/ all that gear, you still can't actually
/measure/ a damned thing, as you need to do with valve lash.

"Tegger" > wrote in message
...
> "Pszemol" > wrote in
> :
>
>> "Tegger" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> It can happen either way. Personally, in my own experience, I see no
>>> bias one way or the other.
>>>
>>> In any case, it does not matter one way or the other. If they are to
>>> go out
>>> of spec (and they will), you need to check them.
>>
>> Agree.
>>
>>> Why are you so concerned about which way they will wear? Are you
>>> trying to avoid inspecting your own valves?
>>
>> I cannot tell why he is asking, but I was asking mostly from
>> curiosity. If this was true that the gap could only widen than you
>> probably could use audible clues instead of removing valve cover and
>> using feeler gauge.
>>
>> I have heard about some professional diagnostic tool which uses
>> several microphones strategically placed in the engine compartment and
>> computer calculating preciselly the sound direction and distance (3D)
>> from the sound born signal microphones generate.
>> This way they could pin point some bearing is going out before it
>> happens even somewhere deep in the engine or transmission just by
>> listening to it.
>
> What you describe may make sense if the vehicle in question is a Bugatti
> Veyron, or a strip-mine dump truck costing a couple of mil, but for your
> average consumer automobile, nobody's going to spend that kind of money.
> Simply performing a valve check would be quite a LOT cheaper.

Yes, you would not use this equipment for measuring valve clearance gap :-)

Its main purpose was to diagnose premature wear in moving components
inside engines and transmissions. Opening up a transmission is not as easy
as taking off the valve cover :-)

I wrote about it as an example of sound based diagnostic to make a point
about sound-diagnosing valves needing adjustment. Of course, again,
this would make sense only if the gap wear to be bigger not smaller...