Ding resistant car?

Long time ago saturn cars were equipped with plastic doors that are ding
resistant.
That sounds like a good idea. Why didn't plastic door become the norm?

Even though I'm very careful parking my car, I still get door dings.

bob wrote:
> Long time ago saturn cars were equipped with plastic doors that are ding
> resistant.
> That sounds like a good idea. Why didn't plastic door become the norm?
>
> Even though I'm very careful parking my car, I still get door dings.
>

The panels were ding resistant BUT the paint wasn't!

Plus they were more expensive to produce, as well as most being heavier
than the steel panel they replaced.

--
Steve W.

On 2/26/2011 8:59 AM, bob wrote:
> Long time ago saturn cars were equipped with plastic doors that are ding
> resistant.
> That sounds like a good idea. Why didn't plastic door become the norm?
>
> Even though I'm very careful parking my car, I still get door dings.
>

I think all the vertical panels were plastic which could be replaced. My
guess is that cars no longer use this type of construction because it's
heavier than a conventional build or doesn't lend itself to mass
production. The Pontiac Fiero my have been the first mass produced car
to be built this way.

dsi1 > wrote in news:4d696027$0$17960$a8266bb1
@postbox2.readnews.com:

> On 2/26/2011 8:59 AM, bob wrote:
>> Long time ago saturn cars were equipped with plastic doors that are ding
>> resistant.
>> That sounds like a good idea. Why didn't plastic door become the norm?
>>
>> Even though I'm very careful parking my car, I still get door dings.
>>
>
> I think all the vertical panels were plastic which could be replaced. My
> guess is that cars no longer use this type of construction because it's
> heavier than a conventional build or doesn't lend itself to mass
> production. The Pontiac Fiero my have been the first mass produced car
> to be built this way.
>



It was.

I well remember the hullaballo that surrounded the nifty and futuristic
build-method used to create the Fiero. It was the latest in technology, and
one day all cars would be made that way. Fiero chief-engineer Hulki
Aldikacti (how do I remember this?) was touted as a hero for his
achievements.

There were two problems with the new method:
1) It was heavy. Since the plastic had no structural strength of its own,
an underlying steel structure was still needed, so the final assembly was
heavier than an ordinary steel door would have been.
2) It was expensive, on account of the duplication implied in point #1.


--
Tegger

"Tegger" > wrote in message
...
> dsi1 > wrote in news:4d696027$0$17960$a8266bb1
> @postbox2.readnews.com:
>
>> On 2/26/2011 8:59 AM, bob wrote:
>>> Long time ago saturn cars were equipped with plastic doors that are ding
>>> resistant.
>>> That sounds like a good idea. Why didn't plastic door become the norm?
>>>
>>> Even though I'm very careful parking my car, I still get door dings.
>>>
>>
>> I think all the vertical panels were plastic which could be replaced. My
>> guess is that cars no longer use this type of construction because it's
>> heavier than a conventional build or doesn't lend itself to mass
>> production. The Pontiac Fiero my have been the first mass produced car
>> to be built this way.
>>
>
>
>
> It was.
>
> I well remember the hullaballo that surrounded the nifty and futuristic
> build-method used to create the Fiero. It was the latest in technology,
> and
> one day all cars would be made that way. Fiero chief-engineer Hulki
> Aldikacti (how do I remember this?) was touted as a hero for his
> achievements.
>
> There were two problems with the new method:
> 1) It was heavy. Since the plastic had no structural strength of its own,
> an underlying steel structure was still needed, so the final assembly was
> heavier than an ordinary steel door would have been.
> 2) It was expensive, on account of the duplication implied in point #1.
>
>
> --
> Tegger

This method had a bit of a safety advantage, since there was quite
a bit of steel used in the construction, compared with some smaller
cars on the market.

The Fiero had some possibilities.. We owned one of the first ones.
It had all the teething problems that new cars normally have, and
GM, as usual, dodged the most of them.

On Sat, 26 Feb 2011 14:42:04 -0500, Steve W. wrote:

> bob wrote:
>> Long time ago saturn cars were equipped with plastic doors that are ding
>> resistant.
>> That sounds like a good idea. Why didn't plastic door become the norm?
>>
>> Even though I'm very careful parking my car, I still get door dings.
>>
>>
> The panels were ding resistant BUT the paint wasn't!
>
> Plus they were more expensive to produce, as well as most being heavier
> than the steel panel they replaced.


Paint? What paint?

The panels were moulded in color. The plastic pellets used to make the
panels were available in the colors specified by GM. If there was any
'paint' on a Saturn door, it was because the door was severely damaged and
had to be repaired, then painted.

I worked for GE in Selkirk NY and we provided the pellets used to make the
plastic panels.

On Sat, 26 Feb 2011 17:39:31 -0600, hls wrote:

>
> "Tegger" > wrote in message
> ...
>> dsi1 > wrote in news:4d696027$0$17960$a8266bb1
>> @postbox2.readnews.com:
>>
>>> On 2/26/2011 8:59 AM, bob wrote:
>>>> Long time ago saturn cars were equipped with plastic doors that are
>>>> ding resistant.
>>>> That sounds like a good idea. Why didn't plastic door become the norm?
>>>>
>>>> Even though I'm very careful parking my car, I still get door dings.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I think all the vertical panels were plastic which could be replaced.
>>> My guess is that cars no longer use this type of construction because
>>> it's heavier than a conventional build or doesn't lend itself to mass
>>> production. The Pontiac Fiero my have been the first mass produced car
>>> to be built this way.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> It was.
>>
>> I well remember the hullaballo that surrounded the nifty and futuristic
>> build-method used to create the Fiero. It was the latest in technology,
>> and
>> one day all cars would be made that way. Fiero chief-engineer Hulki
>> Aldikacti (how do I remember this?) was touted as a hero for his
>> achievements.
>>
>> There were two problems with the new method: 1) It was heavy. Since the
>> plastic had no structural strength of its own, an underlying steel
>> structure was still needed, so the final assembly was heavier than an
>> ordinary steel door would have been. 2) It was expensive, on account of
>> the duplication implied in point #1.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Tegger
>
> This method had a bit of a safety advantage, since there was quite a bit
> of steel used in the construction, compared with some smaller cars on the
> market.
>
> The Fiero had some possibilities.. We owned one of the first ones. It had
> all the teething problems that new cars normally have, and GM, as usual,
> dodged the most of them.


That was a cool car. It actually had kind of a decent engine, the (2.8?)
from the Citation, which was also a car with a lot of potential and about
the ONLY American car I ever considered buying new (The X11, of course!).
A Toyota won out in the end,and turned out to be one of the best cars I
ever owned, but the Fiero and the MR2 were certainly a unique set of
automobiles.

On Feb 26, 12:00*pm, Tegger > wrote:
> dsi1 > wrote in news:4d696027$0$17960$a8266bb1
> @postbox2.readnews.com:
>
> > On 2/26/2011 8:59 AM, bob wrote:
> >> Long time ago saturn cars were equipped with plastic doors that are ding
> >> resistant.
> >> That sounds like a good idea. Why didn't plastic door become the norm?
>
> >> Even though I'm very careful parking my car, I still get door dings.
>
> > I think all the vertical panels were plastic which could be replaced. My
> > guess is that cars no longer use this type of construction because it's
> > heavier than a conventional build or doesn't lend itself to mass
> > production. The Pontiac Fiero my have been the first mass produced car
> > to be built this way.
>
> It was.
>
> I well remember the hullaballo that surrounded the nifty and futuristic
> build-method used to create the Fiero. It was the latest in technology, and
> one day all cars would be made that way. Fiero chief-engineer Hulki
> Aldikacti (how do I remember this?) was touted as a hero for his
> achievements.

You must be a human Xerox machine to remember that one. :-)

>
> There were two problems with the new method:
> 1) It was heavy. Since the plastic had no structural strength of its own,
> an underlying steel structure was still needed, so the final assembly was
> heavier than an ordinary steel door would have been.
> 2) It was expensive, on account of the duplication implied in point #1.
>
> --
> Tegger

As I recall, GM's solution to getting the panels to align right was to
place mounting pads on the frame and then drill out the all panel
mounting holes with a single machine at the same time. In theory, the
frame assemblies could be off some but the mounting holes would be
precisely located relative to each other. Did this work? Beats me but
that was a pretty radical idea.

dsi1 > wrote in
:


>
> As I recall, GM's solution to getting the panels to align right was to
> place mounting pads on the frame and then drill out the all panel
> mounting holes with a single machine at the same time.



Yup. That was the Secret Sauce: the Gilman mill-and-drill machine.

There were epoxy-filled pads on the body. These pads were milled to the
correct depth, then drilled for mounting fasteners.



> In theory, the
> frame assemblies could be off some but the mounting holes would be
> precisely located relative to each other. Did this work? Beats me but
> that was a pretty radical idea.
>


Apparently it worked quite well. Just expensive and heavy.


--
Tegger

=?iso-2022-jp?q?Hachiroku_=1B$B%O%A%m%=2F=1B=28B?= >
wrote in :

> On Sat, 26 Feb 2011 17:39:31 -0600, hls wrote:
>

>>
>> The Fiero had some possibilities.. We owned one of the first ones.
>> It had all the teething problems that new cars normally have, and GM,
>> as usual, dodged the most of them.
>
>
> That was a cool car.



It was cool enough that one was driven by Jennifer Grey's character in
"Ferris Bueller's Day Off". The principal drove a K-car. I think the
producers were sending a message there...



> It actually had kind of a decent engine, the
> (2.8?) from the Citation, which was also a car with a lot of potential
> and about the ONLY American car I ever considered buying new (The X11,
> of course!). A Toyota won out in the end,and turned out to be one of
> the best cars I ever owned, but the Fiero and the MR2 were certainly a
> unique set of automobiles.
>
>


Mechanically, the Fiero was basically the front-ends from a Citation and a
Chevette joined back-to-back.
The MR2 was basically the front-ends from a RWD Corolla and a FWD Corolla
joined back-to-back.


--
Tegger