London.

I wouldn't expect the IRA would give up. Not unless some major changes are
made concerning home rule and/or independence and those changes won't be
made as long as the IRA is in a strong opposing position. A classic example
of an 'Catch-22'

Like most Americans, I really don't know much about Mr. Blair or Mr. Ahern
but I do know a little about the Irish. They are by nature and nurture a
contrary, passionate, and obstinate bunch and it they ever manage to get
unified they would be a populace to be reckoned with. I can not foresee them
coming together because they blindly hate each other and themselves too much
to allow self integration.



"Dave Milne" > wrote in message
. uk...
>I note that the IRA have now decided to stop being terrorists (yeah
>right).
>
> The White house said it understood that "the IRA and its members will no
> longer have any contact with any foreign paramilitary and terrorist
> organisations".
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4720863.stm
>
> However, our whining ****wit spinless wonder of a prime-minister, who has
> been responsible for letting these murdering *******s out of gaol on the
> grounds that they are political prisoners, said it was a "step of
> unparalleled magnitude".
>
> Somehow If Al Quaeda terrorists renounced bombs, I can't see Bush reacting
> with praise and claims that it was the greatest thing ever.
>
> Dave Milne, Scotland
> '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
>
> "Billy Ray" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I tell genealogy friends I an 50% German, 25% Swedish, and 25% Irish and
>> they can finedme "Crying in my beer while I plan to take over the world
> and
>> make it safe for statuesque blonds and petite redheads."
>>
>> My grandfather Kelly's parents were from County Louth so I heard all the
>> stories growing up.
>>
>>
>> "Dave Milne" > wrote in message
>> . uk...
>> > We had several conventional wars over it. Ireland is a bit different;
> the
>> > northern irish (protestant) don't want to be one country with the
> southern
>> > irish (catholic). That's the conventional line; the truth is that the
> IRA
>> > and the ulster lot ran protection rackets using the above as an excuse.
> As
>> > long as everyone paid up to one side or the other, they were happy. Not
>> > really about occupation or religion.
>> >
>> >
>> > Dave Milne, Scotland
>> > '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
>> >
>> > "Billy Ray" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >>
>> >> 'political prisoners' ; they swiftly realised that they had better
>> >> stop
>> >> or
>> >> > else, and the misty-eyed "my great grandpappy was a leprechaun"
>> >> > Irish-Americans stopped funding them).
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Weren't the Scots kinda upset about the British occupation of their
>> > country
>> >> for a while?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>

I'm not sure you are right, Billy. The Irish I have met are decent people
not full of hatred, who just wish the organised crime and violence would
stop on both sides.

Dave Milne, Scotland
'91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ

"Billy Ray" > wrote in message
...
> I wouldn't expect the IRA would give up. Not unless some major changes
are
> made concerning home rule and/or independence and those changes won't be
> made as long as the IRA is in a strong opposing position. A classic
example
> of an 'Catch-22'
>
> Like most Americans, I really don't know much about Mr. Blair or Mr. Ahern
> but I do know a little about the Irish. They are by nature and nurture a
> contrary, passionate, and obstinate bunch and it they ever manage to get
> unified they would be a populace to be reckoned with. I can not foresee
them
> coming together because they blindly hate each other and themselves too
much
> to allow self integration.
>
>
>
> "Dave Milne" > wrote in message
> . uk...
> >I note that the IRA have now decided to stop being terrorists (yeah
> >right).
> >
> > The White house said it understood that "the IRA and its members will
no
> > longer have any contact with any foreign paramilitary and terrorist
> > organisations".
> >
> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4720863.stm
> >
> > However, our whining ****wit spinless wonder of a prime-minister, who
has
> > been responsible for letting these murdering *******s out of gaol on the
> > grounds that they are political prisoners, said it was a "step of
> > unparalleled magnitude".
> >
> > Somehow If Al Quaeda terrorists renounced bombs, I can't see Bush
reacting
> > with praise and claims that it was the greatest thing ever.
> >
> > Dave Milne, Scotland
> > '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
> >
> > "Billy Ray" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> I tell genealogy friends I an 50% German, 25% Swedish, and 25% Irish
and
> >> they can finedme "Crying in my beer while I plan to take over the world
> > and
> >> make it safe for statuesque blonds and petite redheads."
> >>
> >> My grandfather Kelly's parents were from County Louth so I heard all
the
> >> stories growing up.
> >>
> >>
> >> "Dave Milne" > wrote in message
> >> . uk...
> >> > We had several conventional wars over it. Ireland is a bit different;
> > the
> >> > northern irish (protestant) don't want to be one country with the
> > southern
> >> > irish (catholic). That's the conventional line; the truth is that the
> > IRA
> >> > and the ulster lot ran protection rackets using the above as an
excuse.
> > As
> >> > long as everyone paid up to one side or the other, they were happy.
Not
> >> > really about occupation or religion.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Dave Milne, Scotland
> >> > '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
> >> >
> >> > "Billy Ray" > wrote in message
> >> > ...
> >> >>
> >> >> 'political prisoners' ; they swiftly realised that they had better
> >> >> stop
> >> >> or
> >> >> > else, and the misty-eyed "my great grandpappy was a leprechaun"
> >> >> > Irish-Americans stopped funding them).
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> Weren't the Scots kinda upset about the British occupation of their
> >> > country
> >> >> for a while?
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>

That's true of my Son-in-law's parents and their clan mostly from
Cork City, that visit us every other year. They get very upset at my
loaded firearms in varoius racks through out my home. They'll be out
next week: http://www.billhughes.com/irishclan.jpg
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O


Dave Milne wrote:
>
> I'm not sure you are right, Billy. The Irish I have met are decent people
> not full of hatred, who just wish the organised crime and violence would
> stop on both sides.
>
> Dave Milne, Scotland
> '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ

Bill ask your in-laws, after a few beers, what they would think of one of
their teenaged daughters or grand daughters was to come home one evening and
announce she was pregnant by a boy from Belfast. Give them a few more
beers, then ask the question what would they feel if she wanted to move
there and live with his family. Then after a couple more beers throw in the
proposition that she was going to convert to that 'other church'.

I don't think your in-laws, as nice as they are if they are being honest,
will display ANY level of approval.

North hates south, Catholic hate Protestant, Green hates Orange and I don't
forsee any change in the near future.

Do they want the violence to stop? Absolutely!
Do they want Irish unity? Absolutely !

Are they willing to work together or peace? Well... it really hasn't
happened


Excerpts from http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0108101.html

"A landmark settlement, the Good Friday Agreement of April 10, 1998, came
after 19 months of intensive negotiations. The accord called for Protestants
to share political power with the minority Catholics, and it gave the
Republic of Ireland a voice in Northern Irish affairs. In turn, Catholics
were to suspend the goal of a united Ireland—a territorial claim that was
the raison d'être of the IRA and was written into the Irish Republic's
constitution—unless the largely Protestant North voted in favor of such an
arrangement, an unlikely occurrence."

It took 19 months of negotiations for them to agree to negotiate.

"In Dec. 1998 the rival Northern Ireland politicians agreed on the
organization and contents of the new coalition government, but in June 1999
the peace process again hit an impasse when the IRA refused to disarm prior
to the assembly of Northern Ireland's new provincial cabinet. Sinn Fein
insisted the IRA would only begin giving up its illegal weapons after the
formation of the new government; Unionists demanded disarmament first. As a
result, the Ulster Unionists boycotted the assembly session that would have
nominated the cabinet to run the new coalition government. The nascent
Northern Irish government was stillborn in July 1999."

The IRA won't give up its guns until the new government is formed, the new
government won't be formed until they give up their guns. Catch - 22

" On April 8, 2002, international weapons inspectors announced that the IRA
had put more stockpiled munitions “beyond use,” the euphemistic phrase used
in the negotiations to mean disarmament. British and Irish leaders hoped
that Protestant paramilitary groups would also begin to surrender their
weapons. The Council on Foreign relations has estimated that Protestant
paramilitary groups have been responsible for 30% of the civilian deaths in
the Northern Irish conflict. The two main Protestant vigilante groups are
the Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF) and the Ulster Defence Association (UDA).
Strongest during the 1970s, their ranks have diminished since then. While
Protestant paramilitaries have observed a cease-fire since the IRA declared
one, none of these groups has made any moves toward surrendering their
weapons as stipulated by the Good Friday Accord."

The Protestant terrorists won't give up their guns, even after the IRA had
started.



Furthermore, despite efforts by the British and Irish governments to create
an autonomous Northern Ireland, religious tensions have greatly hampered the
peace process. Recently, the autonomous government of Northern Ireland was
suspended by the British government based on both reports that the IRA was
failing to disarm and the arrest of Sinn Féin members for spying for the IRA
in Belfast. Moreover, the reactions of both hardline Protestant unionists
and hardline Catholic nationalists to this suspension of the government,
each blaming the other, only furthers the view that while peace has had its
hour, hate still rules the day.

A excerpt from "The Harvard International Review"
http://hir.harvard.edu/articles/1118/2/

"As the recent suspension of the Northern Ireland government shows, the
distrust and tension between political groups also distinguished by religion
are not easily overcome. Because antagonism and hatred between fellow
Christians can be so virulent and divisive, no universal concord exists
among Christian denominations that would allow them to unite into one,
indivisible entity. In fact, the divisions are so pronounced that the
potential for internal feuds prevents them from engaging in an epic clash of
civilizations against Islam or any other religion. As the violence and
hostility in Ireland have shown, the rift can become so great that, for all
intents and purposes, different sides view others not as sects of
Christianity, but as different religions entirely."



"L.W. ("ßill") Hughes III" > wrote in message
...
> That's true of my Son-in-law's parents and their clan mostly from
> Cork City, that visit us every other year. They get very upset at my
> loaded firearms in varoius racks through out my home. They'll be out
> next week: http://www.billhughes.com/irishclan.jpg
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
>
>
> Dave Milne wrote:
>>
>> I'm not sure you are right, Billy. The Irish I have met are decent people
>> not full of hatred, who just wish the organised crime and violence would
>> stop on both sides.
>>
>> Dave Milne, Scotland
>> '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ

Most people, no matter where in the world you happen to be, are decent
people.


"Dave Milne" > wrote in message
. uk...
> I'm not sure you are right, Billy. The Irish I have met are decent people
> not full of hatred, who just wish the organised crime and violence would
> stop on both sides.
>
> Dave Milne, Scotland
> '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
>
> "Billy Ray" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I wouldn't expect the IRA would give up. Not unless some major changes
> are
>> made concerning home rule and/or independence and those changes won't be
>> made as long as the IRA is in a strong opposing position. A classic
> example
>> of an 'Catch-22'
>>
>> Like most Americans, I really don't know much about Mr. Blair or Mr.
>> Ahern
>> but I do know a little about the Irish. They are by nature and nurture a
>> contrary, passionate, and obstinate bunch and it they ever manage to get
>> unified they would be a populace to be reckoned with. I can not foresee
> them
>> coming together because they blindly hate each other and themselves too
> much
>> to allow self integration.
>>
>>
>>
>> "Dave Milne" > wrote in message
>> . uk...
>> >I note that the IRA have now decided to stop being terrorists (yeah
>> >right).
>> >
>> > The White house said it understood that "the IRA and its members will
> no
>> > longer have any contact with any foreign paramilitary and terrorist
>> > organisations".
>> >
>> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4720863.stm
>> >
>> > However, our whining ****wit spinless wonder of a prime-minister, who
> has
>> > been responsible for letting these murdering *******s out of gaol on
>> > the
>> > grounds that they are political prisoners, said it was a "step of
>> > unparalleled magnitude".
>> >
>> > Somehow If Al Quaeda terrorists renounced bombs, I can't see Bush
> reacting
>> > with praise and claims that it was the greatest thing ever.
>> >
>> > Dave Milne, Scotland
>> > '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
>> >
>> > "Billy Ray" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >> I tell genealogy friends I an 50% German, 25% Swedish, and 25% Irish
> and
>> >> they can finedme "Crying in my beer while I plan to take over the
>> >> world
>> > and
>> >> make it safe for statuesque blonds and petite redheads."
>> >>
>> >> My grandfather Kelly's parents were from County Louth so I heard all
> the
>> >> stories growing up.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> "Dave Milne" > wrote in message
>> >> . uk...
>> >> > We had several conventional wars over it. Ireland is a bit
>> >> > different;
>> > the
>> >> > northern irish (protestant) don't want to be one country with the
>> > southern
>> >> > irish (catholic). That's the conventional line; the truth is that
>> >> > the
>> > IRA
>> >> > and the ulster lot ran protection rackets using the above as an
> excuse.
>> > As
>> >> > long as everyone paid up to one side or the other, they were happy.
> Not
>> >> > really about occupation or religion.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Dave Milne, Scotland
>> >> > '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
>> >> >
>> >> > "Billy Ray" > wrote in message
>> >> > ...
>> >> >>
>> >> >> 'political prisoners' ; they swiftly realised that they had better
>> >> >> stop
>> >> >> or
>> >> >> > else, and the misty-eyed "my great grandpappy was a leprechaun"
>> >> >> > Irish-Americans stopped funding them).
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Weren't the Scots kinda upset about the British occupation of their
>> >> > country
>> >> >> for a while?
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>