Is Retro Good?

I found this article about retro designs and thought I'd share my
thoughts.

"Retro as a design theme has failed. There are two success stories,
but four failures. Take a look:
Ford's Thunderbird, clearly a failure."

NoOp comment: Yes, it did fail, but I think it had more to do with its
nearly 2-ton curb weight and $40G price tag.

"Volkswagen's New Beetle, sinking every year."

NoOp Comment: The main reason is the Bug's shoddy workmanship. The new
Beetles aren't screwed together worth a damn!

"Chevrolet's SSR, never reached sales targets."

NoOp Comment: Again, too fat and too high a price tag, plus a flexy
frame.

"Chrysler's PT Cruiser, not really a failure but far from the success
it should be."

Sales have cooled lately, but then it hasn't been revised in years.
I'd say the PT has done well.

"On the success side, we have the MINI."

NoOp Comment: Because it was done right. Cars that are done right
succeed.

"Of course, that Mustang is running strong, although it is new so we
don't know how long she will prance."

NoOp Comment: Again becuase did it right. And as long as gas prices
stay reasonable the new Mustang is going to prance for a long time.

"And there's a new one, the Chevy HHR, which looks like it might have
arrived late to the party."

NoOp Comment: It's do great as long as it's priced reasonably, it's
screwed together well, and the details are done right.

"It's also possible to take a bit of the past without going retro: The
Chrysler 300 is like that. There's something about it that points back,
but it's not retro."

NoOp Comment: But without those retro touches it would be just another
Mercedes product.

What are your thoughts?

Patrick
'93 Cobra
'03 Focus ZX3

wrote in news:1120271161.004166.245360
@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

> "Retro as a design theme has failed. There are two success stories,
> but four failures. Take a look:
> Ford's Thunderbird, clearly a failure."
>
> NoOp comment: Yes, it did fail, but I think it had more to do with its
> nearly 2-ton curb weight and $40G price tag.

And it looks like a girly car. Not nearly enough of the original mid 50s
testosterone.

--
"This space for rent."

wrote in news:1120271161.004166.245360
@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

> I found this article about retro designs and thought I'd share my
> thoughts.
>
> "Retro as a design theme has failed. There are two success stories,
> but four failures. Take a look:
> Ford's Thunderbird, clearly a failure."
>
> NoOp comment: Yes, it did fail, but I think it had more to do with
its
> nearly 2-ton curb weight and $40G price tag.

And not quite enough power.

> "Volkswagen's New Beetle, sinking every year."
>
> NoOp Comment: The main reason is the Bug's shoddy workmanship. The
new
> Beetles aren't screwed together worth a damn!

It hasn't evolved enough. It's certainly not the "old" Beetle, but I
do see a helluva lot of girls and women driving them...

> "Chevrolet's SSR, never reached sales targets."
>
> NoOp Comment: Again, too fat and too high a price tag, plus a flexy
> frame.

And pretty much useless except for a joyride or a quick trip to the 7-
11.

> "Chrysler's PT Cruiser, not really a failure but far from the
success
> it should be."
>
> Sales have cooled lately, but then it hasn't been revised in years.
> I'd say the PT has done well.

I think the PT has done extremely well. When it first came out you
couldn't get one, and discounts on it were impossible. Sounds like
the '05 Mustang, right? IIRC, the PT is due for a makeover soon, so
we'll have to see what effect that has on sales.

> "On the success side, we have the MINI."
>
> NoOp Comment: Because it was done right. Cars that are done right
> succeed.

And two other things: It's cool-looking as hell, and it's associated
with BMW.

> "Of course, that Mustang is running strong, although it is new so we
> don't know how long she will prance."
>
> NoOp Comment: Again becuase did it right. And as long as gas
prices
> stay reasonable the new Mustang is going to prance for a long time.

Absolutely. I just don't understand why Ford isn't making more of
them to meet demand.

> "And there's a new one, the Chevy HHR, which looks like it might
have
> arrived late to the party."
>
> NoOp Comment: It's do great as long as it's priced reasonably, it's
> screwed together well, and the details are done right.

Personally, I think it looks like a *******ized Jeep Liberty meets PT
Cruiser. It simply doesn't have that cool look like the Mini has.
Even the Scion XB looks better IMO.

> "It's also possible to take a bit of the past without going retro:
The
> Chrysler 300 is like that. There's something about it that points
back,
> but it's not retro."
>
> NoOp Comment: But without those retro touches it would be just
another
> Mercedes product.

The 300 comes across as truly American, with its big wheels and
"chopped"-style top. MBs have the traditional Euro flavor.

> What are your thoughts?
>
> Patrick
> '93 Cobra
> '03 Focus ZX3
>

wrote in news:1120271161.004166.245360
@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

> I found this article about retro designs and thought I'd share my
> thoughts.
>
> "Retro as a design theme has failed. There are two success stories,
> but four failures. Take a look:
> Ford's Thunderbird, clearly a failure."
>
> NoOp comment: Yes, it did fail, but I think it had more to do with its
> nearly 2-ton curb weight and $40G price tag.
>
> "Volkswagen's New Beetle, sinking every year."
>
> NoOp Comment: The main reason is the Bug's shoddy workmanship. The new
> Beetles aren't screwed together worth a damn!
>
> "Chevrolet's SSR, never reached sales targets."
>
> NoOp Comment: Again, too fat and too high a price tag, plus a flexy
> frame.
>
> "Chrysler's PT Cruiser, not really a failure but far from the success
> it should be."
>
> Sales have cooled lately, but then it hasn't been revised in years.
> I'd say the PT has done well.
>
> "On the success side, we have the MINI."
>
> NoOp Comment: Because it was done right. Cars that are done right
> succeed.
>
> "Of course, that Mustang is running strong, although it is new so we
> don't know how long she will prance."
>
> NoOp Comment: Again becuase did it right. And as long as gas prices
> stay reasonable the new Mustang is going to prance for a long time.
>
> "And there's a new one, the Chevy HHR, which looks like it might have
> arrived late to the party."
>
> NoOp Comment: It's do great as long as it's priced reasonably, it's
> screwed together well, and the details are done right.
>
> "It's also possible to take a bit of the past without going retro: The
> Chrysler 300 is like that. There's something about it that points back,
> but it's not retro."
>
> NoOp Comment: But without those retro touches it would be just another
> Mercedes product.
>
> What are your thoughts?
>
> Patrick
> '93 Cobra
> '03 Focus ZX3
>
>

There's a difference..... though I have a jaundiced eye, given my age..
seems to me there are only a couple cars there that could pass for
current styling trend-setter, meaning it COULD have happened without
retro intent..

The Mustang being the most significant and best executed.

And it will be interesting to see the 05 model's satisfaction results on
JD Powers in a few years.

Joe > wrote in news:jfyxe.25964$du.13419
@bignews1.bellsouth.net:

>> NoOp Comment: The main reason is the Bug's shoddy workmanship. The
> new
>> Beetles aren't screwed together worth a damn!
>
> It hasn't evolved enough. It's certainly not the "old" Beetle, but I
> do see a helluva lot of girls and women driving them...

News for ya... the OLD beetle wasnt all that great.

Look at ALL of VW's reliability figures... fits right in there.

AND BTW, Audi perenially sux, too.

I have NO idea why some people think VW/Audi are 'better' than
American... everytime they bring out a new model, the car mags praise
them to high heaven... then after a few years acknowledge the much needed
improvements of the NEXT over that one.

All started with the 100LS which was a POS right out the box.
So was the rabbit, now the Jedda, and dont say it's Mexico... ask a
recent owner about Passat's coil-pack problem and how it seems like VW
was 'blind-sided'

I'll take good old H'umericun pieces of carap

Backyard Mechanic > wrote in
:

> Joe > wrote in news:jfyxe.25964$du.13419
> @bignews1.bellsouth.net:
>
>>> NoOp Comment: The main reason is the Bug's shoddy workmanship.
>>> The
>> new
>>> Beetles aren't screwed together worth a damn!
>>
>> It hasn't evolved enough. It's certainly not the "old" Beetle, but
>> I do see a helluva lot of girls and women driving them...
>
> News for ya... the OLD beetle wasnt all that great.

It was great in the sense that you could fix it with a hairpin and
duct tape. Not to mention that they ran forever. And an added plus
was that they floated.

> Look at ALL of VW's reliability figures... fits right in there.
>
> AND BTW, Audi perenially sux, too.
>
> I have NO idea why some people think VW/Audi are 'better' than
> American... everytime they bring out a new model, the car mags
> praise them to high heaven... then after a few years acknowledge the
> much needed improvements of the NEXT over that one.
>
> All started with the 100LS which was a POS right out the box.
> So was the rabbit, now the Jedda, and dont say it's Mexico... ask a
> recent owner about Passat's coil-pack problem and how it seems like
> VW was 'blind-sided'
>
> I'll take good old H'umericun pieces of carap

Actually, so will I. And believe me, I'm not defending the Beetle
because I think it's basically a POS. But it still seems like a lot
of women drive them because they're "cute" or something.

> > "On the success side, we have the MINI."
> >
> > NoOp Comment: Because it was done right. Cars that are done right
> > succeed.
>
> And two other things: It's cool-looking as hell, and it's associated
> with BMW.

Tight handling. Plenty of power. Ergonomics of the interior, controls and
seats are excellent. Geez what's so difficult about that? An SVT Focus could
have easily met these criteria given the right management mindset.

Howard
1989 LX vert 5.0

Joe > wrote in news:HxAxe.12316$ho.9601
@bignews6.bellsouth.net:

> It was great in the sense that you could fix it with a hairpin and
> duct tape. Not to mention that they ran forever. And an added plus
> was that they floated.

Overheating in hot climes was a big problem. An outboard oil cooler
helped some.

A friend of mine who had one said that the aluminum block would allow
head bolts to creep out until the head gaskets blew. The cure for that
was deep seated head studs.

Other than that, the only problem I saw with the was the size (bad in an
accident) and drawing interior heat from the exhaust manifolds. Hard to
get your windows defrosted and could be deadly with an exhaust leak.

--
"This space for rent."

"elaich" > wrote in message ...
> wrote in news:1120271161.004166.245360
> @g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
>
>> "Retro as a design theme has failed. There are two success stories,
>> but four failures. Take a look:
>> Ford's Thunderbird, clearly a failure."
>>
>> NoOp comment: Yes, it did fail, but I think it had more to do with its
>> nearly 2-ton curb weight and $40G price tag.
>
> And it looks like a girly car. Not nearly enough of the original mid 50s
> testosterone.

And a really wussy V8.
--
Scott W.
'66 HCS Mustang 289
'68 Ranchero 500 302
'69 Mustang Sportsroof 351W
ThunderSnake #57
http://home.comcast.net/~vanguard92/

no
retro sucks



heh heh heh....
had to.

Looking in the paper this weekend, 6 out of 11 movies are remakes.

retro is all the rage.
*sigh*
go figure.