Audi 1.9 TDI (90BHP) won't start without use of Easy Start spray

Hi,

I have no real mechanical knowledge whatsoever so please bear with me.


Problem:
When attempting to start my car, the engine just ticks over but does
not start, as if the car is low on fuel (which it is clearly not). The
glow plugs are fine. I had to call out breakdown recovery to get my
car started. The mechanic told me to turn the ignition key while he
sprayed Easy Start down the air intake (I think its in the tube leading
from the air filter to the engine). Having observed what he did, I
bought some Easy Start and can now start the car with the aid of a
friend (to turn the key while I spray). The mechanic said it was some
sort of fuel problem (unsurprisingly).

When I took it to an independent garage (as I cannot afford to take it
to the Audi garage - £100 an hour for checking the car out!) they
could not identify the problem, but decided to put new glow plugs on
for the sake of it and said to me they THINK it is to do with the
immobiliser (i.e. may need recoding for the one key I have). BUT, why
does the fuel come through once the car has started if it is an
immobiliser problem (surely NO fuel would be allowed through).

Another mechanic has said (without diagnosing the problem) that it
appears to be a fuel pump problem (i.e. I need a new fuel pump - which
someone said to me costs about £600!)

Once the car has started, it runs as if there is no problem. Once I
stop the car after driving it for a while (so it is nicely warmed up),
it still will not start. Occassionally after turning the key for about
5 to 8 seconds, it will start.

I have recently had the car through a full service (new filters, oil
change, etc). It was fine until I had new brakes and discs put on.
Then after a day of the brakes being on, this fuel probem occurred. I
know there should be no connection between brakes and fuel.

Has anyone expeienced anything similar with their diesel Audi, or can
someone please give me some guidance as to what I should do (I know I
need to get it diagnosed from an expert but I cannot afford to be
paying £200 for diagnostics and £600 for new fuel pumps!)

Many thanks.

Jimmy

wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have no real mechanical knowledge whatsoever so please bear with me.
>

OK....
BTW, are you sure it's a 90? I didn't thing we got a 90BHP TDi in the
UK? I'm guessing you're in the UK as you quote prices in £.
>
> Problem:
> When attempting to start my car, the engine just ticks over but does
> not start,

I take it you mean it cranks, but not fires?

> as if the car is low on fuel (which it is clearly not). The
> glow plugs are fine. I had to call out breakdown recovery to get my
> car started. The mechanic told me to turn the ignition key while he
> sprayed Easy Start down the air intake (I think its in the tube leading
> from the air filter to the engine). Having observed what he did, I
> bought some Easy Start and can now start the car with the aid of a
> friend (to turn the key while I spray). The mechanic said it was some
> sort of fuel problem (unsurprisingly).
>
> When I took it to an independent garage (as I cannot afford to take it
> to the Audi garage - £100 an hour for checking the car out!) they
> could not identify the problem, but decided to put new glow plugs on
> for the sake of it and said to me they THINK it is to do with the
> immobiliser (i.e. may need recoding for the one key I have). BUT, why
> does the fuel come through once the car has started if it is an
> immobiliser problem (surely NO fuel would be allowed through).
>

It's not an immobiliser problem if it runs. The immobiliser tends to
have the opposite effect usuually - it will fire , then die after a
second or two.

The glow plugs sounded like an OK-ish try, (but see later)

> Another mechanic has said (without diagnosing the problem) that it
> appears to be a fuel pump problem (i.e. I need a new fuel pump - which
> someone said to me costs about £600!)

I'm not convinced. (I'm sure a pump is £600, but the car wouldn't run
normally once started with a duff pump.
>
> Once the car has started, it runs as if there is no problem. Once I
> stop the car after driving it for a while (so it is nicely warmed up),
> it still will not start. Occassionally after turning the key for about
> 5 to 8 seconds, it will start.

Still sounds like glow plugs perhaps. Dose it smoke when it does start?
>
> I have recently had the car through a full service (new filters, oil
> change, etc). It was fine until I had new brakes and discs put on.
> Then after a day of the brakes being on, this fuel probem occurred. I
> know there should be no connection between brakes and fuel.
>

Coincidence, probably.

> Has anyone expeienced anything similar with their diesel Audi, or can
> someone please give me some guidance as to what I should do (I know I
> need to get it diagnosed from an expert but I cannot afford to be
> paying £200 for diagnostics and £600 for new fuel pumps!)

You should:

1) Go to http://www.tdiclub.com and ask there. There's some clever
people there who know the TDi much better than I do.

2) Get someone with VAG-COM or a VW diag tool (1551/1552) to read for
fault codes before changing any more parts. A dealer should charge about
40 quid for that. Alternatively find somone with VAG-COM who might do it
for a couple of pints. You could ask at http://www.audi-sport.net, or
here, or in uk.rec.cars.vw.watercooled, and say where you are in the
country.

3) Check for 12V at the glowpugs with a multimeter or test lamp, and
check the glowplug fuse.

4) Check the coolant temp sensor. Doing Step (2) will be a fair check,
as if it's screwed it will probably log a fault.
>
> Many thanks.
>
> Jimmy
>
No problem.

Sorry to hear about your problem.

To find someone with a VAG-COM diagnostic aid near you, have a shufti
at www.steve-hall.com/cgi-bin/VAG-Locator.pl, where there's a registry
of people who have one, and are willing to help out. (Hint: scroll
down until you see 'UK' in the State/Prov column.)

If you're anywhere near Sussex, let me know. I have a VAG-COM, and I'm
rapidly getting bored of watching it diagnose dozens of faults on my
Audi. Some new ones would alleviate the monotony.

Peter

"Problem:
When attempting to start my car, the engine just ticks over but does
not start, as if the car is low on fuel (which it is clearly not). The
glow plugs are fine. I had to call out breakdown recovery to get my
car started. The mechanic told me to turn the ignition key while he
sprayed Easy Start down the air intake (I think its in the tube leading
from the air filter to the engine). Having observed what he did, I
bought some Easy Start and can now start the car with the aid of a
friend (to turn the key while I spray). The mechanic said it was some
sort of fuel problem (unsurprisingly)."

Have a read of this thread :
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=133684

Should give you a few ideas.
Rgds

Thanks for the advice guys, much appreciated. The car is still at the
garage (an independent garage - not audi's) as the mechanic is runiing
several tests. He has stated that it looks to be the fuel pump causing
the problem.

Chris, you stated it looks unlikely to be the fuel pump (since it is
pulling fuel through OK once the car has started). Do you think the
whole fuel pump would need replacing or just parts of it? Obviously a
second hand pump (if a replacment is required) from the breakers yard
would suffice??

Another thing, my turbo seems to have stopped working (I know, I should
just scrap the car!!). It was fine until I drove 200 miles at roughly
90MPH. During this time, the ABS light would come on after driving at
this speed for 50+ miles. Stopping and restarting the car would reset
the ABS light, until I drove for another 10+ miles. It seems to be a
ABS sensor problem (or so Ihave been told of the head audi mechanic).
Is this reasonable?

With regards to the turbo, towards the end of this 200 mile trip, the
turbo seems to have stopped working. Now when I drive the car, it
pulls up to 2,500 revs then the acceleration stops. Any advice is
greatly appreciated. (And yes, probably the best advice is to scrap
the car!) Cheers,

Jimmy

wrote:
> Thanks for the advice guys, much appreciated. The car is still at the
> garage (an independent garage - not audi's) as the mechanic is runiing
> several tests. He has stated that it looks to be the fuel pump causing
> the problem.
>
> Chris, you stated it looks unlikely to be the fuel pump (since it is
> pulling fuel through OK once the car has started). Do you think the
> whole fuel pump would need replacing or just parts of it? Obviously a
> second hand pump (if a replacment is required) from the breakers yard
> would suffice??

I don't think the pump is user-serviceable :-(

If you do fit a s/h one, you may need special tools to get it timed.
>
> Another thing, my turbo seems to have stopped working (I know, I should
> just scrap the car!!). It was fine until I drove 200 miles at roughly
> 90MPH. During this time, the ABS light would come on after driving at
> this speed for 50+ miles. Stopping and restarting the car would reset
> the ABS light, until I drove for another 10+ miles. It seems to be a
> ABS sensor problem (or so Ihave been told of the head audi mechanic).
> Is this reasonable?
>
> With regards to the turbo, towards the end of this 200 mile trip, the
> turbo seems to have stopped working. Now when I drive the car, it
> pulls up to 2,500 revs then the acceleration stops. Any advice is
> greatly appreciated. (And yes, probably the best advice is to scrap
> the car!) Cheers,
>
No, the best advice is to get the car hooked up to a fault code reader.
The turbo will be shut off under some fault conditions (like if it
overboosts).

> Jimmy
>

Cheers Chris.

The mechanic has ran the car through a fault detection (VAG I think)
machine and handed me the small printout which reads:

028906021BD 1.9l R4 EDC 00SG 0806
Coding 00002 WSC 06317

No fault recognised

Surely the report should have reported at least the fuel pump (if
damaged) or the turbo are in need of attention???

The mechanic also skipped attempting to retrieve diesel from the tank
by having some in a milk bottle from which he attempted to start the
car. He said this would eliminate that a air leak (or something else
along the line) was casuing the problem. Still the same cranking.
>From this, he believes it is definitely the fuel pump.

Is this feasible? Thanks,

Jimmy

Chris Bartram wrote:
> wrote:
> > Thanks for the advice guys, much appreciated. The car is still at the
> > garage (an independent garage - not audi's) as the mechanic is runiing
> > several tests. He has stated that it looks to be the fuel pump causing
> > the problem.
> >
> > Chris, you stated it looks unlikely to be the fuel pump (since it is
> > pulling fuel through OK once the car has started). Do you think the
> > whole fuel pump would need replacing or just parts of it? Obviously a
> > second hand pump (if a replacment is required) from the breakers yard
> > would suffice??
>
> I don't think the pump is user-serviceable :-(
>
> If you do fit a s/h one, you may need special tools to get it timed.
> >
> > Another thing, my turbo seems to have stopped working (I know, I should
> > just scrap the car!!). It was fine until I drove 200 miles at roughly
> > 90MPH. During this time, the ABS light would come on after driving at
> > this speed for 50+ miles. Stopping and restarting the car would reset
> > the ABS light, until I drove for another 10+ miles. It seems to be a
> > ABS sensor problem (or so Ihave been told of the head audi mechanic).
> > Is this reasonable?
> >
> > With regards to the turbo, towards the end of this 200 mile trip, the
> > turbo seems to have stopped working. Now when I drive the car, it
> > pulls up to 2,500 revs then the acceleration stops. Any advice is
> > greatly appreciated. (And yes, probably the best advice is to scrap
> > the car!) Cheers,
> >
> No, the best advice is to get the car hooked up to a fault code reader.
> The turbo will be shut off under some fault conditions (like if it
> overboosts).
>
> > Jimmy
> >