Racing games 'breed' bad drivers

wrote:
> One thing I find when I put kids on my racing simulator - especially
> kids who have only played NFS-type games, is that they have no concept
> of having to slow down for a turn. They think you can just go full-
> throttle all the time. I doubt very many would take this attitude
> into real life driving, but some probably would.
>
> I let my 13 year old nephew and 11 year old son try the F430 mod at
> Monaco over the weekend. In both cases they actually did a pretty
> good job. But it was still difficult to get them to slow down enough
> to go through the turns properly.

I've been driving racing sims since I can remember - when did Revs come
out? I was born in '79 so I guess I was about 8 or 10 when I first saw
Revs, and I remember getting better and better at it until I was quicker
than my Dad (but I don't know how old I was when that happened). I
wonder if the low quality graphics of Revs, coupled with the brutal
simplicity of the physics model - if you got on the grass, at all, you
crashed - made the learning curve steeper and forced me to figure out
how to get round the corner, because it was that or nothing. Today's
video games are usually either soft on accident damage, or can be put
into a mode where they are - perhaps that's the issue here. If, when you
slid into the barriers in F1 2007 on the Playstation, your car broke and
you were unable to carry on, every time, then perhaps that addition of
realism would answer these critics. And it need not damage the enjoyment
of the game - frustration at getting it wrong is what leads to joy at
getting it right. Of course, in todays pander to the lowest common
denominator world, that probably won't wash.

--
Phil

http://www.usefilm.com/photographer/31307.html

"Tim Wheatley" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Mar 19, 2:52 pm, "Alan Bernardo" > wrote:
>> > wrote in message
>>
>> oups.com...
>>
>> > One thing I find when I put kids on my racing simulator - especially
>> > kids who have only played NFS-type games, is that they have no concept
>> > of having to slow down for a turn. They think you can just go full-
>> > throttle all the time. I doubt very many would take this attitude
>> > into real life driving, but some probably would.
>>
>> > I let my 13 year old nephew and 11 year old son try the F430 mod at
>> > Monaco over the weekend. In both cases they actually did a pretty
>> > good job. But it was still difficult to get them to slow down enough
>> > to go through the turns properly.
>>
>> > Pat Dotson
>>
>> It's BS to think that kids-- no matter how stupid-- would actually think
>> that sim driving habits would transfer over to real driving success
>> (i.e.,
>> no accidents, etc.).
>>
>> Sounds to me like someone is making some wild claims in order to get
>> people
>> to read something.
>>
>> Alanb
>
> Lots of kids have undiagnosed mental problems. This isn't too far out
> of the realms of belief. It's not so much believing there is no
> consequence, it's about them believing they have skills that they
> don't. I remember 10 years ago when I was that age hearing people
> saying their reflexes and stuff were so much better because of games
> and how cool that was...
>

Certainly. Kids or adults who have undiagnosed mental problems, as you say,
can be effected by a chirping bird. But to say that simulation driving
games or driving games in general can produce bad drivers is absurd.

Alan

On Mar 19, 3:52 pm, "Alan Bernardo" > wrote:
> > wrote in message
>
> oups.com...
>
> > One thing I find when I put kids on my racing simulator - especially
> > kids who have only played NFS-type games, is that they have no concept
> > of having to slow down for a turn. They think you can just go full-
> > throttle all the time. I doubt very many would take this attitude
> > into real life driving, but some probably would.
>
> > I let my 13 year old nephew and 11 year old son try the F430 mod at
> > Monaco over the weekend. In both cases they actually did a pretty
> > good job. But it was still difficult to get them to slow down enough
> > to go through the turns properly.
>
> > Pat Dotson
>
> It's BS to think that kids-- no matter how stupid-- would actually think
> that sim driving habits would transfer over to real driving success (i.e.,
> no accidents, etc.).
>
> Sounds to me like someone is making some wild claims in order to get people
> to read something.
>
> Alanb

But on the reverse side in Winnipeg Man, there's apparently an rash of
kids stealing cars to go hunting joggers (opening the passenger door
to hit them as they drive by), one guys' in a coma. Dollars to
donuts it's somethign they learned from a console game and wanted to
try it for real.

On Mar 21, 4:32 pm, "mcewena" > wrote:
> On Mar 19, 3:52 pm, "Alan Bernardo" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > > wrote in message
>
> roups.com...
>
> > > One thing I find when I put kids on my racing simulator - especially
> > > kids who have only played NFS-type games, is that they have no concept
> > > of having to slow down for a turn. They think you can just go full-
> > > throttle all the time. I doubt very many would take this attitude
> > > into real life driving, but some probably would.
>
> > > I let my 13 year old nephew and 11 year old son try the F430 mod at
> > > Monaco over the weekend. In both cases they actually did a pretty
> > > good job. But it was still difficult to get them to slow down enough
> > > to go through the turns properly.
>
> > > Pat Dotson
>
> > It's BS to think that kids-- no matter how stupid-- would actually think
> > that sim driving habits would transfer over to real driving success (i.e.,
> > no accidents, etc.).
>
> > Sounds to me like someone is making some wild claims in order to get people
> > to read something.
>
> > Alanb
>
> But on the reverse side in Winnipeg Man, there's apparently an rash of
> kids stealing cars to go hunting joggers (opening the passenger door
> to hit them as they drive by), one guys' in a coma. Dollars to
> donuts it's somethign they learned from a console game and wanted to
> try it for real.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Obviously games didn't make them assholes but it's likely a tool that
helped them on their way.

> wrote...
>
> One thing I'm not going to let them do is race karts which
> I've done for several years, but I am thinking of putting
> them in a 1/4 midget car this year.

May I ask why? -a friend of mine's 11-year old daughter (who, incidentally,
caught the racing bug at the wheel of a GPL F3 car on my PC) is now karting
(MiniMax I think it's called) and, from watching a couple meetings, it
seems pretty safe to me. Of course a closed car on an oval will be even
safer, I suppose...

Jan.
=---

"mcewena" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> On Mar 19, 3:52 pm, "Alan Bernardo" > wrote:
>> > wrote in message
>>
>> oups.com...
>>
>> > One thing I find when I put kids on my racing simulator - especially
>> > kids who have only played NFS-type games, is that they have no concept
>> > of having to slow down for a turn. They think you can just go full-
>> > throttle all the time. I doubt very many would take this attitude
>> > into real life driving, but some probably would.
>>
>> > I let my 13 year old nephew and 11 year old son try the F430 mod at
>> > Monaco over the weekend. In both cases they actually did a pretty
>> > good job. But it was still difficult to get them to slow down enough
>> > to go through the turns properly.
>>
>> > Pat Dotson
>>
>> It's BS to think that kids-- no matter how stupid-- would actually think
>> that sim driving habits would transfer over to real driving success
>> (i.e.,
>> no accidents, etc.).
>>
>> Sounds to me like someone is making some wild claims in order to get
>> people
>> to read something.
>>
>> Alanb
>
> But on the reverse side in Winnipeg Man, there's apparently an rash of
> kids stealing cars to go hunting joggers (opening the passenger door
> to hit them as they drive by), one guys' in a coma. Dollars to
> donuts it's somethign they learned from a console game and wanted to
> try it for real.
>

My guess is that they did not learn this from any video or computer game.
This kind of thing has been tried before, way before computers came to be.
If it happened when there were no computers and no television, who is to
blame. If such things happen when there was no computer but there was
television, then it's television's fault. If it happens when there was
television but now there are computers and computer and video games, it's
the games that did it.

The better explanation is that some goons thought of it themselves, while
others may have just replicated what they saw on the news, about whacking
joggers with a car door.

All this stuff about how games and other media influence bad acts is
complete BS. There are some bad actors who, no matter the influence, are
going to do bad things. Watching cartoons only makes someone more violent
if that person was violent to begin with, and the same goes with any other
kind of external influence.

Claiming otherwise only sell books and advertisements.

Alan

Tim Wheatley wrote:
> On Mar 20, 4:48 am, Uwe Schürkamp > wrote:
>> May I suggest you were an idiot for buying your kids a freaking
>> motorcycle in the first place??? Don't know about you, but in my day and
>> age, we were content riding our bicycles around the park and making
>> "vroommm vroomm" noises ;-)
>
> Showing your age there Uwe. Now everybody knows you grew up before
> they invented the powered motorcar. ;-)

Uwe,

I think you should have a look at this:

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20030102648.html

Hope this helps.
Sincerely,
Mr. Sylvestre

"Jan Verschueren" > wrote in message
...
> > wrote...
>>
>> One thing I'm not going to let them do is race karts which
>> I've done for several years, but I am thinking of putting
>> them in a 1/4 midget car this year.
>
> May I ask why? -a friend of mine's 11-year old daughter (who,
> incidentally, caught the racing bug at the wheel of a GPL F3 car on my PC)
> is now karting (MiniMax I think it's called) and, from watching a couple
> meetings, it seems pretty safe to me. Of course a closed car on an oval
> will be even safer, I suppose...
>
> Jan.

Carting is huge here in the MW US and very safe. They even require Hans
devices and have very strict chassis safety regulations. 1/4 midgets are
very good too, but because of distance to go racing them, they just haven't
caught on as much as carts in our area. I would not hesitate to say that
racing either carts or 1/4 midgets is probably safer than baseball. My bad
knees will attest to that.......:-)

Ed

On Mar 21, 7:38 pm, "Jan Verschueren"
> wrote:
> > wrote...
> > One thing I'm not going to let them do is race karts which
> > I've done for several years, but I am thinking of putting
> > them in a 1/4 midget car this year.
>
> May I ask why? -a friend of mine's 11-year old daughter (who, incidentally,

First I'll say, in five years of racing karts I've never seen a kid
get very seriously hurt. I believe it's fairly safe too. But, I have
seen some kids in crashes who could have been severely injured. They
were lucky. I've personally been in some pretty hairy situations
including a flip at 70 mph - those incidents are usually due to
incompetent adults. I'm just not going to put my kids into that
potential situation. If I put them in a motorized vehicle to compete
it will be something with a harness and a roll cage.

Ed mentioned a type of karts called "champ karts" that are raced in
some parts of the US. They have a roll cage and harnesses.
Unfortunately, they haven't caught on in my area. It's all open karts
around here.

Not that 1/4 midgets are perfect. I know of one local kid who broke a
leg in a 1/4 midget crash. But at least they are somewhat protected
in a midget. Plus the 1/4 midget tracks are generally very small
compared to kart ovals, so speeds are relatively low. Not to mention
I'd like to start messing around with suspension settings on those
cars

Pat Dotson

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> On Mar 21, 7:38 pm, "Jan Verschueren"
> > wrote:
>> > wrote...
>> > One thing I'm not going to let them do is race karts which
>> > I've done for several years, but I am thinking of putting
>> > them in a 1/4 midget car this year.
>>
>> May I ask why? -a friend of mine's 11-year old daughter (who,
>> incidentally,
>
> First I'll say, in five years of racing karts I've never seen a kid
> get very seriously hurt. I believe it's fairly safe too. But, I have
> seen some kids in crashes who could have been severely injured. They
> were lucky. I've personally been in some pretty hairy situations
> including a flip at 70 mph - those incidents are usually due to
> incompetent adults. I'm just not going to put my kids into that
> potential situation. If I put them in a motorized vehicle to compete
> it will be something with a harness and a roll cage.
>
> Ed mentioned a type of karts called "champ karts" that are raced in
> some parts of the US. They have a roll cage and harnesses.
> Unfortunately, they haven't caught on in my area. It's all open karts
> around here.
>
> Not that 1/4 midgets are perfect. I know of one local kid who broke a
> leg in a 1/4 midget crash. But at least they are somewhat protected
> in a midget. Plus the 1/4 midget tracks are generally very small
> compared to kart ovals, so speeds are relatively low. Not to mention
> I'd like to start messing around with suspension settings on those
> cars
>
> Pat Dotson
>
Yep, champ carts is what the kids race around here. They are kind of like a
roll cage with a motor.......:-). There are several classes all the way up
to really fast shifter carts that will top 90-100mph ( maybe even a bit
quicker). We go watch a kid in one of my wife's classes who has progressed
all the way up to the shifters. He is 11yrs old. He started in the entry
levels about 5yrs ago. He wants to go midget racing, and he could probably
do it for less money than the carts......When I found out how much money was
in those carts I damn near flipped......... The problem is the 150-200 mile
minimum trip to go race midgets and 1/4s, and even further (Iowa has several
good venues) for good competition and reputable sactioning bodies.

Ed