Check Engine light: A brilliant idea?

Hugo Schmeisser wrote:

> I'm imaging this as a second use for the odometer, and totally
> automatic.
>
> People would tend to notice the MIL and the flashing code at coming on
> at the same time, and could then just make a phone call. I can't see
> this at all being hard to do, or even a useless idea.

Even 1980s Cadillacs can display engine diagnostics the climate
control's digital readout, but some buttons have to be pressed to do
this, and display is in numbers, not English words.

I don't see why the seatbelt buzzer can't be replaced by something that
speaks the diagnostics, maybe by replacing the seatbelt buzzer with a
speaker or by going through the car's stereo. The extra cost would be
nil, if anything.

In article .com>,
N8N > wrote:
>Memory is cheap - there's no reason that the message couldn't be "right
>bank O2 sensor trim full lean" instead of "27" for example.

Or "check fuel cap" (one of the most common causes of check engine
lights is a loose or missing fuel cap).

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------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee
Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome.
No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.

John S. wrote:

>
> Hugo Schmeisser wrote:
> > Yesterday I rode with a young lady in her '99 Civic. During the
> > ride I noticed her Check Engine light was on and asked her about
> > it. She replied that it had been on for about a week. She wasn't in
> > a hurry to get it looked at because the last time she did, it cost
> > her many hundreds of dollars to get it to turn off
> > "...and the car's driving fine, so...".
> >
> > She won't even take it in to get the code read, seeming to have the
> > idea that ignorance is bliss.
> >
> > So, my idea:
> > Most cars these days have digital odometers. How much trouble would
> > it be to have the odometer alternately flash the trouble code(s)
> > and its normal mileage reading, and continue to do so until the
> > light went off?
> >
> > Wouldn't this make it less of a hardship for unwilling owners to at
> > least know what the problem is? They could do it with a quick phone
> > call to a garage rather than bother with appointments and lengthy
> > waiting.
> >
> > Wouldn't this possibly result in at least a few more cars getting
> > repaired more quickly?
> >
> > How come no one has done this yet?
> >
>
>
> If you went back 50 years to the time when most cars had an ammeter,
> temperature gauge with numbers and an oil pressure gauge I think you
> would find that many drivers completely ignored those sources of
> information about engine condition too. Most drivers wait until there
> is a problem that can't be ignored - smoke from the hood, engine won't
> start, loud knocking sound, etc., before taking action. The numeric
> trouble codes would be soo much Latin to most people and would be
> ignored as well.



Sadly, you may be right.

An example: Back in the summer I had occasion to attend an auto machine
shop. Sitting on one of the benches were some pistons with curious flat
spots on part of their crowns. I asked the machinist what it was, and
he said it was from the pistons striking the head on their upward
travel. It seems the owner was *completely* unaware that anything was
wrong, even though the engine sounded like large ball-bearings being
vigorously shaken in a coffee can. Eventually something broke and the
engine seized up.

Still, the flashing odo is a good idea, I think.

Hugo Schmeisser wrote:
> John S. wrote:
>
>
>>Hugo Schmeisser wrote:
>>
>>>Yesterday I rode with a young lady in her '99 Civic. During the
>>>ride I noticed her Check Engine light was on and asked her about
>>>it. She replied that it had been on for about a week. She wasn't in
>>>a hurry to get it looked at because the last time she did, it cost
>>>her many hundreds of dollars to get it to turn off
>>>"...and the car's driving fine, so...".
>>>
>>>She won't even take it in to get the code read, seeming to have the
>>>idea that ignorance is bliss.
>>>
>>>So, my idea:
>>>Most cars these days have digital odometers. How much trouble would
>>>it be to have the odometer alternately flash the trouble code(s)
>>>and its normal mileage reading, and continue to do so until the
>>>light went off?
>>>
>>>Wouldn't this make it less of a hardship for unwilling owners to at
>>>least know what the problem is? They could do it with a quick phone
>>>call to a garage rather than bother with appointments and lengthy
>>>waiting.
>>>
>>>Wouldn't this possibly result in at least a few more cars getting
>>>repaired more quickly?
>>>
>>>How come no one has done this yet?
>>>
>>
>>
>>If you went back 50 years to the time when most cars had an ammeter,
>>temperature gauge with numbers and an oil pressure gauge I think you
>>would find that many drivers completely ignored those sources of
>>information about engine condition too. Most drivers wait until there
>>is a problem that can't be ignored - smoke from the hood, engine won't
>>start, loud knocking sound, etc., before taking action. The numeric
>>trouble codes would be soo much Latin to most people and would be
>>ignored as well.
>
>
>
>
> Sadly, you may be right.
>
> An example: Back in the summer I had occasion to attend an auto machine
> shop. Sitting on one of the benches were some pistons with curious flat
> spots on part of their crowns. I asked the machinist what it was, and
> he said it was from the pistons striking the head on their upward
> travel. It seems the owner was *completely* unaware that anything was
> wrong, even though the engine sounded like large ball-bearings being
> vigorously shaken in a coffee can. Eventually something broke and the
> engine seized up.
>
> Still, the flashing odo is a good idea, I think.
>
>

Possibly with a message describing the severity of the problem. e.g.
for lack of oil pressure "STOP ENGINE NOW" or similar.

I agree with you gauges; some people *need* red blinky lights to
warn them of a problem. Personally I would prefer to have both; the red
light to immediately draw my attention to the REAL GAUGE that will tell
me what the problem is...

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

On 1 Mar 2006 13:46:45 -0800, "Al Bundy" >
wrote:

> > >
>>
>> How are the poor dealers gonna' make any gravy money if they cannot make
>> $50 for five minutes' work scanning the computer?????
>
>Ahhh. I can remember 22¢/gal. gas and also the $50 diagnostic scan.
>Now the dealer charges $90, but they will take it off the bill if you
>let them change your engine.


chrysler has had this for years. You have to hold a dash button and
turn the key on for so long and the odo displays OBD status and any
codes.

Honda has the check fuel cap indicator since 2005.
Chip

Hugo Schmeisser wrote:
> Yesterday I rode with a young lady in her '99 Civic. During the ride I
> noticed her Check Engine light was on and asked her about it. She
> replied that it had been on for about a week. She wasn't in a hurry to
> get it looked at because the last time she did, it cost her many
> hundreds of dollars to get it to turn off
> "...and the car's driving fine, so...".
>
> She won't even take it in to get the code read, seeming to have the
> idea that ignorance is bliss.
>
> So, my idea:
> Most cars these days have digital odometers. How much trouble would it
> be to have the odometer alternately flash the trouble code(s) and its
> normal mileage reading, and continue to do so until the light went off?
>
> Wouldn't this make it less of a hardship for unwilling owners to at
> least know what the problem is? They could do it with a quick phone
> call to a garage rather than bother with appointments and lengthy
> waiting.
>
> Wouldn't this possibly result in at least a few more cars getting
> repaired more quickly?
>
> How come no one has done this yet?
>
> Comments?


1. Ignorance IS bliss.
2. OEM don't want you to bring the car in, so they will not add more
flashing lights and whatnot to encourage you to do so. OEM think about
warranty period, not concerned about after warranty expire...

--
Thank you,



"Then said I, Wisdom [is] better than strength: nevertheless the poor
man's wisdom [is] despised, and his words are not heard." Ecclesiastes 9:16

chip wrote:
> On 1 Mar 2006 13:46:45 -0800, "Al Bundy" >
> wrote:
>
>
>>>How are the poor dealers gonna' make any gravy money if they cannot make
>>>$50 for five minutes' work scanning the computer?????
>>
>>Ahhh. I can remember 22¢/gal. gas and also the $50 diagnostic scan.
>>Now the dealer charges $90, but they will take it off the bill if you
>>let them change your engine.
>
>
>
> chrysler has had this for years. You have to hold a dash button and
> turn the key on for so long and the odo displays OBD status and any
> codes.
>
> Honda has the check fuel cap indicator since 2005.
> Chip

Sure GM had the blinky code. I don't think they have it anymore. It
would be extra cost to engineer it over and obove OBDII.

And of course dealership wants you to know something is wrong but does
not want you to know what

I too bring my car in to have code read for $90 bucks. Im waiting for
next time it comes on so I can spend a bit more and buy the tool myself...

--
Thank you,



"Then said I, Wisdom [is] better than strength: nevertheless the poor
man's wisdom [is] despised, and his words are not heard." Ecclesiastes 9:16

chip wrote:


>
> Honda has the check fuel cap indicator since 2005.
>


Do you know specifically which code sets that light? Is it a P1 code?

N8N wrote:
> John S. wrote:
> > Hugo Schmeisser wrote:
> > > Yesterday I rode with a young lady in her '99 Civic. During the ride I
> > > noticed her Check Engine light was on and asked her about it. She
> > > replied that it had been on for about a week. She wasn't in a hurry to
> > > get it looked at because the last time she did, it cost her many
> > > hundreds of dollars to get it to turn off
> > > "...and the car's driving fine, so...".
> > >
> > > She won't even take it in to get the code read, seeming to have the
> > > idea that ignorance is bliss.
> > >
> > > So, my idea:
> > > Most cars these days have digital odometers. How much trouble would it
> > > be to have the odometer alternately flash the trouble code(s) and its
> > > normal mileage reading, and continue to do so until the light went off?
> > >
> > > Wouldn't this make it less of a hardship for unwilling owners to at
> > > least know what the problem is? They could do it with a quick phone
> > > call to a garage rather than bother with appointments and lengthy
> > > waiting.
> > >
> > > Wouldn't this possibly result in at least a few more cars getting
> > > repaired more quickly?
> > >
> > > How come no one has done this yet?
> > >
> >
> >
> > If you went back 50 years to the time when most cars had an ammeter,
> > temperature gauge with numbers and an oil pressure gauge I think you
> > would find that many drivers completely ignored those sources of
> > information about engine condition too. Most drivers wait until there
> > is a problem that can't be ignored - smoke from the hood, engine won't
> > start, loud knocking sound, etc., before taking action. The numeric
> > trouble codes would be soo much Latin to most people and would be
> > ignored as well.
>
> Memory is cheap - there's no reason that the message couldn't be "right
> bank O2 sensor trim full lean" instead of "27" for example.

Yes, we hear that phrase repeated all the time when it somes to
computers. And yes, the cost of storage has come down notably from the
days of core memory.

However to add such a feature and have it provide useful information to
the driver would involve a lot more than adding a memory chip I'm
afraid. For example the OBD would have to be reprogrammed to convert
032AC to The Transmission Chip A1 has just consumed itself, stop the
car now. And since an OBD may throw more than one error code the
diagnostic tree one would have to follow to interpret the information
would also have to be added. Additionally, car manufacturers would
have to justify the cost in light of the fact that very few people
would pay attention to that bit of added technical information. In
other words why pay to add a source of complex information about the
functioning of automotive systems if the existing simple ones are being
widely ignored.

Hugo Schmeisser wrote:
> John S. wrote:
>
> >
> > Hugo Schmeisser wrote:
> > > Yesterday I rode with a young lady in her '99 Civic. During the
> > > ride I noticed her Check Engine light was on and asked her about
> > > it. She replied that it had been on for about a week. She wasn't in
> > > a hurry to get it looked at because the last time she did, it cost
> > > her many hundreds of dollars to get it to turn off
> > > "...and the car's driving fine, so...".
> > >
> > > She won't even take it in to get the code read, seeming to have the
> > > idea that ignorance is bliss.
> > >
> > > So, my idea:
> > > Most cars these days have digital odometers. How much trouble would
> > > it be to have the odometer alternately flash the trouble code(s)
> > > and its normal mileage reading, and continue to do so until the
> > > light went off?
> > >
> > > Wouldn't this make it less of a hardship for unwilling owners to at
> > > least know what the problem is? They could do it with a quick phone
> > > call to a garage rather than bother with appointments and lengthy
> > > waiting.
> > >
> > > Wouldn't this possibly result in at least a few more cars getting
> > > repaired more quickly?
> > >
> > > How come no one has done this yet?
> > >
> >
> >
> > If you went back 50 years to the time when most cars had an ammeter,
> > temperature gauge with numbers and an oil pressure gauge I think you
> > would find that many drivers completely ignored those sources of
> > information about engine condition too. Most drivers wait until there
> > is a problem that can't be ignored - smoke from the hood, engine won't
> > start, loud knocking sound, etc., before taking action. The numeric
> > trouble codes would be soo much Latin to most people and would be
> > ignored as well.
>
>
>
> Sadly, you may be right.
>
> An example: Back in the summer I had occasion to attend an auto machine
> shop. Sitting on one of the benches were some pistons with curious flat
> spots on part of their crowns. I asked the machinist what it was, and
> he said it was from the pistons striking the head on their upward
> travel. It seems the owner was *completely* unaware that anything was
> wrong, even though the engine sounded like large ball-bearings being
> vigorously shaken in a coffee can. Eventually something broke and the
> engine seized up.

The pistons striking the head????? Now that's compression!!!! Maybe
they struck the valves.

>
> Still, the flashing odo is a good idea, I think.

I agree - the information can be useful for some of us. I've got a
2004 Volvo V70 that uses a small three line window to display the usual
milage information. It also displays warnings about door ajar, which
light is burned out, low coolant, etc. And it displays a somewhat
complete set of warning messages for the engine, transmission, etc. I
use it.

OTOH, my daughter and son-in-law own 2003 Volvo V70 with essentially
the same screen and neither of them has any idea what the information
on the screen means.

I'm thinking of the old saying about horses and water right now.....