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#11
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I guess there's two ways to look at the glass: half full vs. half empty. To
me, the water pump driven by the timing belt seemed like a great durability improvement - no worries about idiots running the car with the w.p. belt broken! And the oil pump driven off the crankshaft nose (a'la old AMCs) also seems to be a smart move. all the new stuff is that way, no? But, no question, for every action there's a reaction... Rick "Joe" > wrote in message ... > Whoops I meant 3.5's. That was stupid of me. > > "Joe" > wrote in message > ... > > I would have to agree that it's not really right (I'm an engineer too). I > > have a couple of 3.3's, and they're the same way. My dad has one, and his > > water pump locked up without warning and killed the timing belt. I don't > > recall ever seeing a locked up water pump before, so I think it was a > freak > > thing. Since the old 3.3's are freewheeling, it was fairly harmless. On a > > later model it would be the pits. > > > > I certainly understand what they're going through from my own experience. > > Still, I don't think the EPA has outlawed timing chains and gears, nor do > > they require oil pumps, water pumps, balance shafts and other belt-driven > > equipment to further entangle whatever's driving the camshaft. > > > > "Anthony" > wrote in message > > . .. > > > "Richard Ehrenberg" > wrote in > > > : > > > > > > > Actually, I know those engineers. Trust me, they didn't want a "crash" > > > > motor any more than you do. They were forced into it by the EPA. Those > > > > neat little valve clearance notches in the pistons proved to be a > > > > "reservoir" of hydrocarbons that are 'hidden' and won't burn. I.e., > > > > smog. They had to go. > > > > > > > > But they tried their best. There IS enough clearance so that a belt > > > > that has jumped two teeth will NOT cause a crash. And even a one-tooth > > > > jump turns on the Czech engine light so you know something's amiss. > > > > And they REALLY broke their stones to get 100K belt life on the DOHC. > > > > > > > > I just did a belt on mine - not a hard job at all. But don't even > > > > think about it without the FSM and a torque wrench handy! I suggest > > > > replacing the hydraulic tensioner also, and carefully checking > > > > (feeling for roughness) the bearings in the tensioner and idler > > > > pullies. > > > > > > > > Rick Ehrenberg > > > > > > > > > > Rick, > > > The interference of the valves/pistons is not the concern. I fully > > > understand the impact of valve reliefs on emissions. My issue is with > > > running ancillary equipment from the timing belt. I realize it makes > > > packaging nice and compact, reduces parts in the engine assembly, etc, > > > but the combination of failure prone ancillary equipment in the timing > > > structure and an interference engine do not go well together. > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Anthony > > > > > > You can't 'idiot proof' anything....every time you try, they just make > > > better idiots. > > > > > > Remove sp to reply via email > > > > > > |
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#12
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Richard Ehrenberg wrote:
> I guess there's two ways to look at the glass: half full vs. half empty. To > me, the water pump driven by the timing belt seemed like a great durability > improvement - no worries about idiots running the car with the w.p. belt > broken! True, but for those with a Clue, a conventional V-belt WP drive is just fine, and also useful if you are aware there's a problem but don't want to/can't afford to deal with it quite yet (I don't have a problem driving a vehicle a few hundred miles with a noisy water pump when it's V-belt driven, but it's too scary for words when it's T-belt driven) > > And the oil pump driven off the crankshaft nose (a'la old AMCs) also seems > to be a smart move. all the new stuff is that way, no? Not sure; I know my Porsche is like that. But I don't see the big deal, if the oil pump seizes up on an older car it will take out the distributor drive, so no worries about that, eh? There is an advantage for vehicles with long camshafts though, probably makes for more stable ignition and valve timing. nate -- replace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel |
#13
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Richard Ehrenberg wrote:
> I guess there's two ways to look at the glass: half full vs. half empty. To > me, the water pump driven by the timing belt seemed like a great durability > improvement - no worries about idiots running the car with the w.p. belt > broken! True, but for those with a Clue, a conventional V-belt WP drive is just fine, and also useful if you are aware there's a problem but don't want to/can't afford to deal with it quite yet (I don't have a problem driving a vehicle a few hundred miles with a noisy water pump when it's V-belt driven, but it's too scary for words when it's T-belt driven) > > And the oil pump driven off the crankshaft nose (a'la old AMCs) also seems > to be a smart move. all the new stuff is that way, no? Not sure; I know my Porsche is like that. But I don't see the big deal, if the oil pump seizes up on an older car it will take out the distributor drive, so no worries about that, eh? There is an advantage for vehicles with long camshafts though, probably makes for more stable ignition and valve timing. nate -- replace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel |
#14
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Richard Ehrenberg wrote:
> I guess there's two ways to look at the glass: half full vs. half empty. To > me, the water pump driven by the timing belt seemed like a great durability > improvement - no worries about idiots running the car with the w.p. belt > broken! Yeah, but I'd rather see the idiots get what they deserve :-p > > And the oil pump driven off the crankshaft nose (a'la old AMCs) also seems > to be a smart move. all the new stuff is that way, no? > The Chrysler v6's since the 3.5 all drive the oil pump off the crank- the rotor rides on the crank itself. The stoopid thing they did is make the front face of the block a "wear item." The rotor rides on the block face, and if it wears to the point that the clearances open up and it can't hold minimum oil pressure at idle even with a new rotor, guess what? The cure is to replace the engine block :-/ Fortunately, that hasn't happened to my 3.5 in 215,000 miles, so I guess its pretty far down on the gripe list. But still, my gut reacts the wrong way to that sort of thing just on principle. |
#15
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Richard Ehrenberg wrote:
> I guess there's two ways to look at the glass: half full vs. half empty. To > me, the water pump driven by the timing belt seemed like a great durability > improvement - no worries about idiots running the car with the w.p. belt > broken! Yeah, but I'd rather see the idiots get what they deserve :-p > > And the oil pump driven off the crankshaft nose (a'la old AMCs) also seems > to be a smart move. all the new stuff is that way, no? > The Chrysler v6's since the 3.5 all drive the oil pump off the crank- the rotor rides on the crank itself. The stoopid thing they did is make the front face of the block a "wear item." The rotor rides on the block face, and if it wears to the point that the clearances open up and it can't hold minimum oil pressure at idle even with a new rotor, guess what? The cure is to replace the engine block :-/ Fortunately, that hasn't happened to my 3.5 in 215,000 miles, so I guess its pretty far down on the gripe list. But still, my gut reacts the wrong way to that sort of thing just on principle. |
#16
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"Tegger®" > wrote in message .. . > Nate Nagel > sprach im > : > > > Richard Ehrenberg wrote: > > > >> I guess there's two ways to look at the glass: half full vs. half > >> empty. To me, the water pump driven by the timing belt seemed like a > >> great durability improvement - no worries about idiots running the > >> car with the w.p. belt broken! > > > > > > True, but for those with a Clue, a conventional V-belt WP drive is > > just fine, and also useful if you are aware there's a problem but > > don't want to/can't afford to deal with it quite yet (I don't have a > > problem driving a vehicle a few hundred miles with a noisy water pump > > when it's V-belt driven, but it's too scary for words when it's T-belt > > driven) > > > > Only if the engine is interference, like my Honda, or, I'm sure, your > Porsche. > > If the engine is like almost all Toyotas, there will be no damage. The car > just stops, at which point you haul out your cell phone and call the tow > truck. > > > Hence the title of this thread. I guess you don't realize what this thread is about in its current configuration! LOL. |
#17
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"Tegger®" > wrote in message .. . > Nate Nagel > sprach im > : > > > Richard Ehrenberg wrote: > > > >> I guess there's two ways to look at the glass: half full vs. half > >> empty. To me, the water pump driven by the timing belt seemed like a > >> great durability improvement - no worries about idiots running the > >> car with the w.p. belt broken! > > > > > > True, but for those with a Clue, a conventional V-belt WP drive is > > just fine, and also useful if you are aware there's a problem but > > don't want to/can't afford to deal with it quite yet (I don't have a > > problem driving a vehicle a few hundred miles with a noisy water pump > > when it's V-belt driven, but it's too scary for words when it's T-belt > > driven) > > > > Only if the engine is interference, like my Honda, or, I'm sure, your > Porsche. > > If the engine is like almost all Toyotas, there will be no damage. The car > just stops, at which point you haul out your cell phone and call the tow > truck. > > > Hence the title of this thread. I guess you don't realize what this thread is about in its current configuration! LOL. |
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