134a Refrigerant

"Stephen Cowell" > wrote in message
...
> i know thats what youre trying to do but i wont let you. :-) my post to
> YOU clearly stated -30 degrees. :-)

> But not as a limiting factor!

lol yes it was! although you desperately attempt to weasel your way off the
hook theres just no way around it. my statement was clear. you remind me
of clinton trying to weasel his way out of lying to the grand jury. funny
to watch. :-)


> without your self-imposed low
> ambient spec

irrelevent since i CLEARLY said -30 degrees. :-)


> I win! Therefore, I win!

TRANSLATION --> "i lose". :-) if you continue to claim victory you might
actually convince yourself of such, but youve fooled no one else. :-)


--
Nathan W. Collier
http://InlineDiesel.com
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
http://BighornRefrigeration.com

"Stephen Cowell" > wrote in message
t...

> Your crap unsays itself!

TRANSLATION --> "i have no response".

and BTW, i found out why there are refrigerants found in the bottom of the
ocean. care to take a guess?

--
Nathan W. Collier
http://InlineDiesel.com
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
http://BighornRefrigeration.com

"Stephen Cowell" > wrote in message
t...

>> TRANSLATION --> "im a little girly bitch" :-)

> Be as femme as you want

i have no doubt thats the code that you live by. :-)


--
Nathan W. Collier
http://InlineDiesel.com
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
http://BighornRefrigeration.com

Nathan W. Collier wrote:
> "jeff" > wrote in message
> news:lm9Ee.80$sc3.68@trnddc07...
>
>>Nathan W. Collier, the poolboi wrote:
>>
>>
>>> im glad to see that you claim any four wheel drive is a "jeep".
>>> it just goes to show how full of **** the rest of
>>>your argument is.
>>
>>HL&S <G>, but don't you think it's more than just a little bit dishonest
>>to snip what I wrote and then claim I said something completely different?
>
>
> YOU stated that in many parts of the world any 4x4 is referenced as a jeep.
> you went on to DEFEND IT by claiming its usage was reasonable
> (paraphrasing).
>
> "reality is that in many parts of the world, a jeep is any four wheel drive
> utility vehicle." YOUR words.
>
> jeff i dont care whats done anywhere in the world it doesnt change the
> bottom line. no matter how many ignorant people say it, a land rover is NOT
> a jeep. by the same token, no matter how many ignorant people use "freon"
> to describe refrigerant it just does not make it so. you can continue to
> argue your ignorance all you want, you cannot change the bottom line and the
> harder you argue your ignorance the more you take away from your valid
> points.
>

The flip side of this is that no matter how much you dislike something
you cannot make it go away by wishing it to, or denying it's existence.
*I* do not use "Jeep" for any other vehicles other than what I have
previously stated, in spite of your trimming to eliminate those
statements. However I know what you were fishing for and I gave it to
you: in other parts of the world "jeep" is used generically. Like it or
not, that's reality. Time to grow up Nate and realize that we do not get
to impose our own versions of reality on the world.

--
jeff

Nathan W. Collier wrote:
> "jeff" > wrote in message
> news:YD9Ee.84$sc3.1@trnddc07...
>
>>don't you remember writing:
>
> fine and well, i stand corrected (<-- the mark of integrity which you
> liberals know nothing of).
You know nothing of my politics, and they are not germain to this
discussion.
in my haste i failed to express myself properly.
> so you are suggesting that sunlight does not destroy chlorine?

The law of conservation of mass: "Matter can neither be created nor
destroyed, only changed in form."
Nothing short of nuclear bombardment can destroy chlorine.
>
> "Numerous field tests and evaluations have demonstrated that the addition of
> a minimum of 30 parts per million of cyanuric acid to swimming pool water
> prevents wasteful destruction of the free chlorine residual by sunlight. "
> from
> http://webpages.charter.net/poolserv...0Chemistry.htm
> and i can find you 1000 links showing that sunlight destroys chlorine.
>

Key phrase "free chlorine residual". If you go back and actually read,
about 14 lines into your page is this statement: " when chlorine
compounds are dissolved in water, hypochlorous acid is formed. (Remember
that name-it does the actual sanitizing.)"

If you look back to what I have previously posted you will find where I
posted the chemical sequence for you including the definition of
"hypochlorus acid". What you think of as "sunlight dissolving chlorine"
or "sunlight destroying chlorine" is what I previously stated as
sunlight causing the chlorine atom in hypochlorus acid to dissociate. It
is breaking the chlorine atom free and allowing it to excape.

Chlorine in: Cl2+H2O -> HCL + HOCl
Chlorine out: Light + 4(HOCl) -> 2(H2O) + 2(Cl2) + O2
It should be noted that some of the Chlorine evolved can disolve back
into solution. Chlorine is not destroyed, hypochlorous acid is.



--
jeff

"jeff" > wrote in message
news:Zb5Fe.4105$vY2.302@trnddc09...
> The flip side of this is that no matter how much you dislike something you
> cannot make it go away by wishing it to, or denying it's existence.

im not trying to make it "go away". im stating that its _wrong_.


> in other parts of the world "jeep" is used generically. Like it or not,
> that's reality.

and its still WRONG. :-)


> Time to grow up Nate and realize that we do not get to impose our own
> versions of reality on the world.

time to own up jeff, and admit that you were WRONG.

--
Nathan W. Collier
http://InlineDiesel.com
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
http://BighornRefrigeration.com

"jeff" > wrote in message
news:bz5Fe.5295$mU3.3394@trnddc02...
> Nothing short of nuclear bombardment can destroy chlorine.

i have as many pool links as you can read saying otherwise.


>What you think of as "sunlight dissolving chlorine" or "sunlight destroying
>chlorine" is what I previously stated as sunlight causing the chlorine atom
>in hypochlorus acid to dissociate. It is breaking the chlorine atom free
>and allowing it to excape.

and where is it going....the ozone? :-)


> Chlorine is not destroyed, hypochlorous acid is.

so tell me jeff, why hundreds of links state that chlorine is destroyed, and
not one ive read says its the hypochlorous acid?

--
Nathan W. Collier
http://InlineDiesel.com
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
http://BighornRefrigeration.com

Nathan W. Collier wrote:
> "jeff" > wrote in message
> news:Zb5Fe.4105$vY2.302@trnddc09...
>
>>The flip side of this is that no matter how much you dislike something you
>>cannot make it go away by wishing it to, or denying it's existence.
>
> im not trying to make it "go away". im stating that its _wrong_.

>>in other parts of the world "jeep" is used generically. Like it or not,
>>that's reality.
>
> and its still WRONG. :-)

Yes it's wrong, but it is also reality. Just like when I showed you
dozens of links to HVAC contractors and other "insiders" referring to
"freon refrigeration". Just because *You* have defined it as wrong, does
not make it so, nor does it make it go away, right or wrong.
>
>
>>Time to grow up Nate and realize that we do not get to impose our own
>>versions of reality on the world.
>
> time to own up jeff, and admit that you were WRONG.
>

I said freon is a compound. You say it's only a tradename. You say in
the industry that *nobody* uses the name generically. I show dozens of
examples of people in the industry using it in that way. All I have to
show is *ONE* usage in industry to throw your "nobody" out the window.
That's the problem with phrasing things in absolutist terms. Use some
common sense he If I say Band-aid, do you know what I am talking
about? If you say that's only a tradename, and you refer to them as
adhesive bandage strips, I am going to guess you were toilet trained you
with a cattle prod...

--
jeff

Nathan W. Collier wrote:
> "jeff" > wrote in message
> news:bz5Fe.5295$mU3.3394@trnddc02...
>
>>Nothing short of nuclear bombardment can destroy chlorine.
>
> i have as many pool links as you can read saying otherwise.
I doubt they are wrong, but I question your interpretation of what they
actually say.
>
>>What you think of as "sunlight dissolving chlorine" or "sunlight destroying
>>chlorine" is what I previously stated as sunlight causing the chlorine atom
>>in hypochlorus acid to dissociate. It is breaking the chlorine atom free
>>and allowing it to excape.
>
> and where is it going....the ozone? :-)

Perhaps some of it, but given the reactivity of it I would imagine the
vast majority gets washed out as HCl and HOCl.

>
>>Chlorine is not destroyed, hypochlorous acid is.
>
> so tell me jeff, why hundreds of links state that chlorine is destroyed, and
> not one ive read says its the hypochlorous acid?
>

Because poolbois are too stupid to understand chemistry?

Here's a site: http://www.deh.enr.state.nc.us/ehs/chem.htm
"Chlorine reacts with water to form Hypochlorous acid (HOC1). The
reaction is different for each form of chlorine but hypochlorous acid is
produced by each of those reactions and is the form in which chlorine
serves best as a disinfectant. Hypochlorous acid is a weak acid and
easily dissociates to an ionized hypochlorite state as shown below.
HOC1 increasing pH-> H+ OC1-
Hypochlorous <-decreasing pH Hydrogen + Hypochlorite
Acid Ion Ion
This is important because both hypochlorous acid and the hypochlorite
ion are counted as free chlorine residual on your test kit but only the
hypochlorous acid portion is an effective disinfectant. The balance
between hypochlorous acid and the hypochlorite ion is affected by pH.
The higher the pH, the less hypochlorous acid present and the less
effective free chlorine becomes. At a pH of 7.2 about 66% of free
chlorine is hypochlorous acid. At a pH of 7.8 only about 33% of free
chlorine is hypochlorous acid. Thus pH control is essential for
maintaining the effectiveness of chlorine as a disinfectant.

Stabilizer - Cyanuric Acid
Hypochlorous acid is a highly unstable molecule which dissipates rapidly
in the presence of sunlight. This results in considerable loss of free
chlorine form pools exposed to sunlight. Proper stabilization of
chlorine with cyanuric acid slows the rate of chlorine dissipation
without appreciably sacrificing oxidation and disinfection activity"

Note the terminology: *DISSIPATES*
Nothing is being destroyed.

--
jeff

"jeff" > wrote in message
news:lPaFe.5689$dM3.5367@trnddc04...
> I doubt they are wrong, but I question your interpretation of what they
> actually say.

aw c'mon, the links _clearly_ stated that sunlight destroyed the chlorine.


>> and where is it going....the ozone? :-)
>
> Perhaps some of it,

so your statement is that swimming pools could account for a percentage of
ozone depletion? that would be a logical deduction of your statement...


>> so tell me jeff, why hundreds of links state that chlorine is destroyed,
>> and not one ive read says its the hypochlorous acid?
>>
>
> Because poolbois are too stupid to understand chemistry?

drop the elitist bull**** already. i can assure you that youre no better
than anybody else in this newsgroup.


> Here's a site: http://www.deh.enr.state.nc.us/ehs/chem.htm

wheres the relevance? i see no direct reference to our points of
difference.

--
Nathan W. Collier
http://InlineDiesel.com
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
http://BighornRefrigeration.com