Oil and Filter Change

B A R R Y wrote:
> Built_Well wrote:
>>
>> The car ramps available at Walmart are unique. The ramps
>> are constructed in a way that allows one to fit inside another.
>>
>> Each single ramp can support 3,000 pounds, so a pair would be good
>> for 6,000. But if you stack 2 together (one on top of the other), a set
>> of 4 ramps can be used to lift the front end tires of a 12,000 pound
>> vehicle! That's what the stickers on the ramps say, anyway.
>
> Based on the quality of so many products sold by Wal*Mart, getting under
> a 12,000 pound load on those ramps would give me heebie-jeebies.

Every set of those cheap ramps that I have seen have been bent once
used. I have seen several that have been collapsed.

No one around here has a hard flat level place to use them it would
seem.... Their legs sink into driveway/parking lot asphalt or they get
used on planks on dirt which still won't keep them square.

A former tenant left two sets here. I took one look at how warped they
were and sent them to the scrap yard with a load of steel garbage.

The best ones I have seen were made of wood. Heavy pigs, but solid.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...

Built_Well wrote:
> Mike Romain wrote:
> ========
>
>> When doing a back to front rotation, only one corner has to be up on a
>> jack stand at a time...
>>
>> The rear wheel gets the nuts loosened on the ground, then jacked up
>> and onto the jackstand, then you remove that tire and take that tire
>> to the front. You loosen off those front lug nuts, then jack it up,
>> pull off the tire and put the rear one right back on the front, snug
>> up the lugs, then jack it down, then take the front tire to the back,
>> put it on, snug up the lug nuts, jack it up to remove the stand and
>> drop it down.
>>
>> The lugnuts get torqued when everything is safely on the ground.
> ========
>
> I don't mean to be picky, and you obviously have more
> experience than I have with automobiles, but the
> way you're rotating tires from front to rear means
> you're only using /one/ jack stand while two wheels
> are off the ground. You're using the floor jack to
> support the front tire and the single jack stand to
> support the rear tire.
>
> Aren't floor jacks supposed to be used only for
> lifting, not supporting? Jack stands are meant
> to always be used in pairs, I think.
>

Correct to a point.

The rear tire is sitting right there up front 'under the edge of the
vehicle' waiting to go on, so it is only a matter of seconds that the
jack is holding anything. I can have the tire on faster than setting up
a jack stand 'under' it and then I don't need to go under at all.

Something like changing a flat tire. You have the spare sitting right
there so you don't need a jackstand.

I normally will slip the front tire I just took off under the edge of
the vehicle for the time it takes me to spin on the nuts on the
replacement tire, but 'not' touching tight, just there to catch.

I figure it is just as easy to lay the tire just under the edge of the
vehicle while it is waiting to be put on as to lay it anywhere else.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...

Mike Romain wrote:

> Something like changing a flat tire. You have the spare sitting right
> there so you don't need a jackstand.
========

Yeah, but when you change a flat tire, you only have one tire
off the ground, not 2.

You're taking an unauthorized shortcut <wink> ;-)

When rotating tires, it's better to have all 4 corners
of the car on jack stands than just having 2 tires in
the air on one jack stand and one jack ;-)

The 2 tires you have off the ground are on
the same side of the vehicle--another no-no, according
to the instructions on the jack stand box I read at
Walmart/Sears.

It's okay to have 2 tires off the ground if they're both
on the same /end/ of the vehicle (front end or rear end),
but not okay to have 2 tires off the ground if they're
on the same side of the vehicle (left side or right
side :-)

Built_Well wrote:
> The 2 tires you have off the ground are on
> the same side of the vehicle--another no-no, according
> to the instructions on the jack stand box I read at
> Walmart/Sears.
>
> It's okay to have 2 tires off the ground if they're both
> on the same /end/ of the vehicle (front end or rear end),
> but not okay to have 2 tires off the ground if they're
> on the same side of the vehicle (left side or right
> side :-)

I am not using 2 jackstands though, just one and I block the wheels on
the other side. ;-)

We are 'not' talking about setting up for working on it here, just for
tire swapping.

When working on them a front or rear raise is in order for sure 'if' I
can't just get under just one corner up in the air. Like for brakes,
one corner at a time only.

You will see just how 'stable' the suckers are(nt) when they are up on
stands. Keep your eyes on the feet of the jackstands for lifting or
sinking. They tip 'really' easy.

What do you have for a base? Flat concrete or a paved driveway on a
misc. angle?

The paved driveway where I have lived for the last 17 years isn't solid
enough to be stable for cheap jackstands. Even the wheels on the floor
jack dig in. I have an old 2 1/2 ton cast jackstand that will stay up.
At least it is flat and has a handy tree I use to pull engines or
bodies off with a small winch up to a branch.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...

Mike Romain wrote:

> Keep your eyes on the feet of the jackstands for lifting or
> sinking. They tip 'really' easy.
========

I saw some jack stands, either at Sears or Walmart (or both
places), that have metal pads on the feet to increase the
footprint and lessen the chance of tilting and digging in.
But I agree with you that the pavement has to be something solid
like concrete, not asphalt which isn't firm enough.

> I don't mean to be picky, and you obviously have more
> experience than I have with automobiles, but the
> way you're rotating tires from front to rear means
> you're only using /one/ jack stand while two wheels
> are off the ground. You're using the floor jack to
> support the front tire and the single jack stand to
> support the rear tire.

Take the whole procedure step by step.

You have the rear wheel up in the air, it's on a jackstand.

Now you put the front end on the jack and jack it up.

At this point do you do...

(a) Crawl under the car to place the jackstand, then swap the tires, then
crawl under the car and remove the jackstand.
- or -
(b) Swap the tires.

....then lower the car.

Seems a lot safer to do (b)

The car ramps available at Walmart are unique. The ramps
are constructed in a way that allows one to fit inside
another.

Each single ramp can support 3,000 pounds, so a pair would be good for
6,000.
But if you stack 2 together (one on top of the other), a set
of 4 ramps can be used to lift the front end tires of
a 12,000-pound vehicle! That's what the stickers on the ramps say,
anyway.

Mike Romain wrote:
> Built_Well wrote:
>> Mike Romain wrote:
>>
>>> If I 'must' use a sheet metal notch as a jack point,
>>> I use a 2x4 on the saddle of the jack or stand to help
>>> spread out the pressure.
>> ========
>>
>> I don't know if this would be a safe idea. I think I saw
>> on the box of some Craftsman jack stands a warning not to
>> place anything between the stands and the car.
>>
>> And here's a quote from the '06 Camry manual relating to
>> the jack itself, though not the stands:
>>
>> "When raising the vehicle, do not place any objects
>> on top of or underneath the jack."
>>
>> The same probably applies to the stands.
>>
>
> Note I said 'if I must'. I 'really really' try not to use rocker panels
> for lifting or bracing.
>
> Maybe not the safest, but you will see what I mean soon enough likely.
>
> I think spreading out the weight is safer than the jack going through
> the rocker panel.
>
> If you live someplace where they don't use salt on the roads, you might
> not run into this, but up here in the rust belt, the bottom of the
> rocker panels go soft first usually and that bottom edge seam is always
> ratty.
>
> The factory jack went right on up through the last two Volvo's I owned
> pressed seam jacking points on the rockers and neither of these vehicles
> was showing any rust.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...

I've often got my race car in the air with NO wheels on it.
First thing you do when it's on the stands is rock the sh&t out of it.
Better it falls now then when you're under it.

And the first thing you should do with a factory jack is toss it in the
trash and get a $19.99 hydraulic jack and stand set from walmart.

NEVER work under a car held up with just a jack, especially a factory one.

FWIW, I own one small cheapo hydraulic, one big hydraulic, and probably
10 jackstands. (I use 4 for storing my Trans Am in the winter and with
the race car there have been times when I've needed both jacks and 6
stands - how else do you hold a rear end in place with the car jacked up?

My buddy has a lift in his garage - I'm jealous.

Ray

Noozer, you're not suppose to crawl under a car if
it's only supported by a jack. Very dangerous thing to do.