So what's wrong with the Airhog filters? was: Airhog filters almost free after Fram's rebate

Steve wrote:
> John S. wrote:
>
> >
> > I was referring to quality filters including those from the car
> > manufacturer.
>
>
> <eyeroll> here we go again.... still believe that car manufacturers also
> build air and oil filters, do you?
>
> For filters, the best brand names to buy on are Wix or Purolator.
> Filters from a dealer and labelled with a car-maker's parts division
> are truly of unknown origin in many cases. You can assume that they meet
> the minimum specifications for the part, but that's all. QC/QA can be
> all over the map.

Oh, good there is a waxing moon tonight and the troll has come out of
hiding. Once again he will tell us of his extensive inside knowlege
anout the design, contracting and purchasing decisions made by the
major auto makers.

John S. wrote:
> Steve wrote:
>
>>John S. wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I was referring to quality filters including those from the car
>>>manufacturer.
>>
>>
>><eyeroll> here we go again.... still believe that car manufacturers also
>>build air and oil filters, do you?
>>
>>For filters, the best brand names to buy on are Wix or Purolator.
>>Filters from a dealer and labelled with a car-maker's parts division
>>are truly of unknown origin in many cases. You can assume that they meet
>>the minimum specifications for the part, but that's all. QC/QA can be
>>all over the map.
>
>
> Oh, good there is a waxing moon tonight and the troll has come out of
> hiding. Once again he will tell us of his extensive inside knowlege
> anout the design, contracting and purchasing decisions made by the
> major auto makers.
>

It's a well known fact that OEM filters for various makes are obviously
relabeled product of the major aftermarket mfgrs. Sometimes Dana (Wix)
sometimes Champion Labs, sometimes Fram. There's little "tells" in the
construction of the filter that make this evident. Perhaps *you* should
look into the subject before firing off authoritative-sounding,
condescending messages.

and just before you scream "cite!" as I know you will, here ya go...

http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oil...y.html#mc-fl1a

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

Thanks for the replies...

At least a few have reasonable arguements.
Much better than "it's too expensive"..or "I wouldn't buy it" for no
reason.

But get real...just because it's Fram doesn't mean it's bad,
either...because they had some bad oil filters 10 years ago I'm not
necessarily going to avoid their air filters...

FYI, a lot of what I use are Hastings from the local Federated
store...and I tend to change 'em frequently
Don Byrer
Commercial Pilot / CFI Student
Electronics Technician, RADAR/Data/Comm @ CLE
Amateur Radio KJ5KB

"I have slipped the surly bonds of earth; now if I can just land without bending the gear..."
"I know what it sounds like....when doves cry" (Bird Strike 8/29/05)

"Nate Nagel" > wrote in message
...

>> Oh, good there is a waxing moon tonight and the troll has come out of
>> hiding. Once again he will tell us of his extensive inside knowlege
>> anout the design, contracting and purchasing decisions made by the
>> major auto makers.
>>
>
> It's a well known fact that OEM filters for various makes are obviously
> relabeled product of the major aftermarket mfgrs. Sometimes Dana (Wix)
> sometimes Champion Labs, sometimes Fram. There's little "tells" in the
> construction of the filter that make this evident. Perhaps *you* should
> look into the subject before firing off authoritative-sounding,
> condescending messages.
>
> and just before you scream "cite!" as I know you will, here ya go...
>
> http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oil...y.html#mc-fl1a
>
> nate

I cant believe someone yells troll without himself having a clue about the
subject.

"Don Byrer" > wrote in message
news
> Thanks for the replies...
>
> At least a few have reasonable arguements.
> Much better than "it's too expensive"..or "I wouldn't buy it" for no
> reason.
>
> But get real...just because it's Fram doesn't mean it's bad,
> either...because they had some bad oil filters 10 years ago I'm not
> necessarily going to avoid their air filters...

A lot of the complaint against Fram comes about from the shoddy appearance
of some of the filter innards. Several years ago, someone published a
report
on the web of his findings on oil filters. He had cut them apart, taken a
look,
identified many of the filters from their original source.

Fram got a really bad rep, but there was no actual filtration data, failure
data,
etc. I think the reputation spilled over onto Frams entire line base on the
groundswell.

When the K&N came out, many raced to it believing it gave more power,
was a really great deal. Later, data was published showing that the K&N
gave improved airflow at a price.

I suspect that the Airhog will show similar results..but I dont know this
for sure.

Nate Nagel wrote:
> John S. wrote:
> > Steve wrote:
> >
> >>John S. wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>I was referring to quality filters including those from the car
> >>>manufacturer.
> >>
> >>
> >><eyeroll> here we go again.... still believe that car manufacturers also
> >>build air and oil filters, do you?
> >>
> >>For filters, the best brand names to buy on are Wix or Purolator.
> >>Filters from a dealer and labelled with a car-maker's parts division
> >>are truly of unknown origin in many cases. You can assume that they meet
> >>the minimum specifications for the part, but that's all. QC/QA can be
> >>all over the map.
> >
> >
> > Oh, good there is a waxing moon tonight and the troll has come out of
> > hiding. Once again he will tell us of his extensive inside knowlege
> > anout the design, contracting and purchasing decisions made by the
> > major auto makers.
> >
>
> It's a well known fact that OEM filters for various makes are obviously
> relabeled product of the major aftermarket mfgrs.

> Sometimes Dana (Wix)
> sometimes Champion Labs, sometimes Fram.

Why should that be any surprise...good grief. Just as many other other
automotive components come from specialist companies.

> There's little "tells" in the
> construction of the filter that make this evident.

What in heavens sake is a tell. And please describe the little
fellows.

> Perhaps *you* should
> look into the subject before firing off authoritative-sounding,
> condescending messages.

I was responding to a snide comment from a troll.

>
> and just before you scream "cite!" as I know you will, here ya go...
>
> http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oil...y.html#mc-fl1a

That car manufacturers depend on filter manufacturers for their
products comes as no great surprise to me and hopefully it is not to
you either. However I think that it is completely incorrect to assume
as steve-the-troll does that car manufacturers blindly accept the
least-cost product with no mind given to standards of filtration,
quality, etc.

The website presents an interesting home project, but in terms of this
discussion it adds very little.

>
> nate
>
> --
> replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
> http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

"Don Byrer" > wrote in message
...
> Other than a few derogatory comments abpout the price...
>
> No one really told me why I should NOT buy an Airhog filter. Is there
> a REAL reason????
>
>
> At $11-16 for the standard filter for my 4.2L F150,
> The $31.99 Airhog with $20 rebate costs me $11.99 (I'm assuming
> shipping is similar
>
>
> For my Taurus...$6 vs $38 = $12.
>
> so why not??
>
> ==Don

I am not comfortable using oiled gauze filters on my vehicles no matter who
sells them. Unless you are spending a lot of time at wide open throttle,
there isn't an advantage and they will let in more dirt. I have a long rant
about K&N fitlers at http://home.mindspring.com/~ed_white/id5.html . I
believe most of my opinions apply directly to the Fram Air Hog Fitlers as
well.
--
Regards,

Ed White
http://home.mindspring.com/~ed_white/ - my automotive opinions
http://home.mindspring.com/~ed_white/id7.html - my oil filter comparison

Nate Nagel wrote:

> John S. wrote:
>
>> Steve wrote:
>>
>>> John S. wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> I was referring to quality filters including those from the car
>>>> manufacturer.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> <eyeroll> here we go again.... still believe that car manufacturers also
>>> build air and oil filters, do you?
>>>
>>> For filters, the best brand names to buy on are Wix or Purolator.
>>> Filters from a dealer and labelled with a car-maker's parts division
>>> are truly of unknown origin in many cases. You can assume that they meet
>>> the minimum specifications for the part, but that's all. QC/QA can be
>>> all over the map.
>>
>>
>>
>> Oh, good there is a waxing moon tonight and the troll has come out of
>> hiding. Once again he will tell us of his extensive inside knowlege
>> anout the design, contracting and purchasing decisions made by the
>> major auto makers.
>>
>
> It's a well known fact that OEM filters for various makes are obviously
> relabeled product of the major aftermarket mfgrs. Sometimes Dana (Wix)
> sometimes Champion Labs, sometimes Fram. There's little "tells" in the
> construction of the filter that make this evident. Perhaps *you* should
> look into the subject before firing off authoritative-sounding,
> condescending messages.
>
> and just before you scream "cite!" as I know you will, here ya go...
>
> http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oil...y.html#mc-fl1a
>
> nate
>

Thanks Nate. But don't expect to shake this guy's belief that its
super-secret insider information.

John S. wrote:
> Nate Nagel wrote:
> > John S. wrote:
> > > Steve wrote:
> > >
> > >>John S. wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>I was referring to quality filters including those from the car
> > >>>manufacturer.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >><eyeroll> here we go again.... still believe that car manufacturers also
> > >>build air and oil filters, do you?
> > >>
> > >>For filters, the best brand names to buy on are Wix or Purolator.
> > >>Filters from a dealer and labelled with a car-maker's parts division
> > >>are truly of unknown origin in many cases. You can assume that they meet
> > >>the minimum specifications for the part, but that's all. QC/QA can be
> > >>all over the map.
> > >
> > >
> > > Oh, good there is a waxing moon tonight and the troll has come out of
> > > hiding. Once again he will tell us of his extensive inside knowlege
> > > anout the design, contracting and purchasing decisions made by the
> > > major auto makers.
> > >
> >
> > It's a well known fact that OEM filters for various makes are obviously
> > relabeled product of the major aftermarket mfgrs.
>
> > Sometimes Dana (Wix)
> > sometimes Champion Labs, sometimes Fram.
>
> Why should that be any surprise...good grief. Just as many other other
> automotive components come from specialist companies.

It shouldn't be a surprise at all.

>
> > There's little "tells" in the
> > construction of the filter that make this evident.
>
> What in heavens sake is a tell. And please describe the little
> fellows.
>

You know, things that make the filter unique from others on the market,
like the number/size/shape of the holes in the baseplate, the form of
the crimp, the construction of the bypass or anti-drainback valves (if
present,) the construction of the filter media (and in the case of one
mfgr. the presence of a string around the media) - things like that.

> > Perhaps *you* should
> > look into the subject before firing off authoritative-sounding,
> > condescending messages.
>
> I was responding to a snide comment from a troll.
>

I didn't see it as snide at all, nor did I see it as a troll.

> >
> > and just before you scream "cite!" as I know you will, here ya go...
> >
> > http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oil...y.html#mc-fl1a
>
> That car manufacturers depend on filter manufacturers for their
> products comes as no great surprise to me and hopefully it is not to
> you either. However I think that it is completely incorrect to assume
> as steve-the-troll does that car manufacturers blindly accept the
> least-cost product with no mind given to standards of filtration,
> quality, etc.

When they choose Fram, that is the only logical conclusion, although
certainly they have to meet the manufacturer's minimum standards for
quality and filtration. I think Steve's point was that the average
consumer may not wish to merely meet the manufacturer's standards when
there are likely aftermarket products available that will exceed them
(for a similar price.) Which brings us full circle to the original
poster's question regarding using a particular aftermarket air filter.
Now that particular filter in my opinion may not be the best choice for
regular on-road use, but there may very well be aftermarket filters
available that ARE better choices than an OEM-branded part, with little
or no cost penalty.

You certainly can't say with a straight face that you'd rather have the
oil that comes out of the 55-gallon drum at a dealership than some
Mobil One or Redline, can you? But the oil in the 55-gallon drum meets
the manufacturer's specifications... (well, usually. There have been
exceptions...)

>
> The website presents an interesting home project, but in terms of this
> discussion it adds very little.
>

It certainly lends credence to Steve's assertion.

nate

John S. wrote:

> That car manufacturers depend on filter manufacturers for their
> products comes as no great surprise to me and hopefully it is not to
> you either. However I think that it is completely incorrect to assume
> as steve-the-troll does that car manufacturers blindly accept the
> least-cost product with no mind given to standards of filtration,
> quality, etc.

Oh please, you're changing your song in mid dance here. I have *ALWAYS*
said that the car companies do require that their vendor-of-the-year
meet minimum standards, but as automotive enthusiasts we generally want
something that far exceeds minimum standards. Do you use the very
cheapest no-name oil that has an API rating in your car? I don't. The
whole tenor of the air and oil filter discussions is about how to
consistently obtain better-than-minimum a) filtration, b) quality of
manufacture, and c) consitency or "quality control" of manufacture. For
many years Wix and Purolator have consistently been better than minimum,
whereas going to the dealer will only assure you of MINIMUM performance.