rusted body - cosmetic or dangerous?

my escort is quickly rusting out along the bottom of the car. the tube
of metal that makes up the bottom-side of the car is eaten in a couple
of places. underneath it looks fine. its rusty, but the chassis where
parts attach, flooring, etc, looks fine.

is that tube of chassis along the bottom sides of the car load bearing?
does it make up a structural part of the car? or does it not matter
than i can rip pieces of it off with my fingers now.

and- if it is important, can i just grind it back to good metal and
weld a sheet of cheap steel on? i like this car and want to squeeze
another year or two out of it. coudlnt care less what it looks like,
though.

anthony

"ant" > wrote in message
ps.com...
> my escort is quickly rusting out along the bottom of the car. the tube
> of metal that makes up the bottom-side of the car is eaten in a couple
> of places. underneath it looks fine. its rusty, but the chassis where
> parts attach, flooring, etc, looks fine.
>
> is that tube of chassis along the bottom sides of the car load bearing?
> does it make up a structural part of the car? or does it not matter
> than i can rip pieces of it off with my fingers now.
>
> and- if it is important, can i just grind it back to good metal and
> weld a sheet of cheap steel on? i like this car and want to squeeze
> another year or two out of it. coudlnt care less what it looks like,
> though.
>
> anthony
>

The answer is: "It depends".

On 20 Jan 2005 01:18:38 GMT, "TeGGer®" > wrote:

>Watch how your doors close. So long as they keep closing the same, you're
>fine. If you experience a sudden change (big drop or other significant
>alignment change) stop driving it. Otherwise, don't worry about it.
>
>Also keep an ear out for chassis creaking and significant door movement
>over bumps. Same thing as above.
>
>Cars these days do not experience nearly the same catastrophic corrosion
>problems they once did. There was a Honda Civic near me up to last year
>whose outer rocker panels had completely disappeared. No frame distortion
>to speak of.
>
>Oh, by the way, don't get into any head-on collisions. Those rocker panels
>are supposed to help keep your engine out of your lap.

In the 1970s I used to drive unit body Austin 1300s in the Ontario
rust belt. When I let out the clutch and noticed the front fenders
rise slightly I knew it was time to move the engine to another body.

On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 18:23:17 -0800, John Ings >
wrote:

>In the 1970s I used to drive unit body Austin 1300s in the Ontario
>rust belt. When I let out the clutch and noticed the front fenders
>rise slightly I knew it was time to move the engine to another body.

I am too young *old* to remember, but,
way back when, say before the 70's, ( I was born in 1945 ), say a
Chevy in the 1950's, or a Mercury in the 1950's, those were BEASTS
IIRC. Hell, the Bumpers on those things, remember the Buick Bullets?
They must have weighed a ton.

But my question, because I can't measure it for myself, how THICK was
the metal on those cars?

I know today, if I lean my elbow on my car I will put a permanent DENT
in the damn thing. My wooden ladder already has.

Those older cars, I wonder how thick the steel was compared to today's
cars.

Lg

On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 20:32:40 -0600, Lawrence Glickman
> wrote:

>I am too young *old* to remember, but,
>way back when, say before the 70's, ( I was born in 1945 ), say a
>Chevy in the 1950's, or a Mercury in the 1950's, those were BEASTS
>IIRC. Hell, the Bumpers on those things, remember the Buick Bullets?
>They must have weighed a ton.
>
>But my question, because I can't measure it for myself, how THICK was
>the metal on those cars?

They didn't resist rust much better than today's cars, I can tell you
that. They did have the advantage of frames though. The car body
wasn't structural.

>I know today, if I lean my elbow on my car I will put a permanent DENT
>in the damn thing. My wooden ladder already has.
>
>Those older cars, I wonder how thick the steel was compared to today's
>cars.

The manufacturers of those cars didn't have legislatures demanding
that they deliver a certain minimum miles per gallon, and gas was only
32 cents an Imperial gallon in 1961 as far as I recall.

i wrote:
> > is that tube of chassis along the bottom sides of the car load
bearing?

TeGGer=AE wrote:
> Yes.


bummer. went out today. its rusted pretty badly in three spots. the
damage seems to have progressed particularly quickly in the last few
weeks. or perhaps i just havent been paying attention.

i took these snapshots, so im sure we're talking about the same part of
the body-

electricant.net/misc (look at the 'rust' pictures)

in at least two places that folded tube of metal at the bottom of the
car is useless in terms of structure. itmight as well not be there.

the doors shut fine, and i dont remember hearing any chassis creaking.
shoudl i consider reinforcing the chassis at that point? it seems like
it would be easy to take a grinder to the thing, eat it back to clean
metal, and weld some scrap steel on. is that a ridiculous idea?

if thats a waste of time, what should i do to prevent it getting worse?
wash it, dry it, and spray it down with rustoleum? oil it? duct tape?
sacrifise live chicken and pray to oxidation gods?
-anthony, learning about cars one problem at a time.

On 20 Jan 2005 14:26:36 -0800, "ant" >
wrote:

>> > is that tube of chassis along the bottom sides of the car load
>bearing?

>> Yes.

Sure is.

>bummer. went out today. its rusted pretty badly in three spots.

That you can see, which means lots more you can't.

>the doors shut fine, and i dont remember hearing any chassis creaking.
>shoudl i consider reinforcing the chassis at that point? it seems like
>it would be easy to take a grinder to the thing, eat it back to clean
>metal, and weld some scrap steel on. is that a ridiculous idea?

I spent at least a dozen weekends over a summer repairing similar rust
on a Honda CRX. Notice I said summer! Have you got a warm place to
work? A hoist? Welding equipment? Time? When you start to weld you're
going to encounter metal you thought was sound that turns out to be
rusted thin from the other side. That's like trying to weld to a piece
of kleenex. You'll have to pull the seats out and remove the carpets.
Lotta work!

>if thats a waste of time, what should i do to prevent it getting worse?

It's too late for that.

Probably it will last until spring. Then the question arises, how much
do you value the car? How much sweat equity do you want to invest?

John Ings wrote:

> Probably it will last until spring. Then the question arises, how
much
> do you value the car? How much sweat equity do you want to invest?

da*n those reality checks.

i do value the car. but id prefer to just squeak by until at least the
summer. or does anyone want to sell me a 5spd focus wagon in good
condition, this week? for under 2,000?

i was thinking i could just rent a MIG box for a weekend, take all the
crap off with an angle grinder, support the entire side of the car with
multiple jacks, to take a lot of the load off the chassis, and weld
bars or tubes or sheets or cheap steel on. i was thinking a solid day's
work.

those side bars at the bottom of the car are the only places where
there is any real rust damage, AFAIK. the underside of the car seems
solid enough.

im leaving the salty east coast in a week for the desert. maybe that
will give me a time extension?

anthony

On 20 Jan 2005 16:41:07 -0800, "ant" >
wrote:

>> Probably it will last until spring. Then the question arises, how
>> much do you value the car? How much sweat equity do you want to invest?
>
>da*n those reality checks.
>
>i do value the car. but id prefer to just squeak by until at least the
>summer. or does anyone want to sell me a 5spd focus wagon in good
>condition, this week? for under 2,000?
>
>i was thinking i could just rent a MIG box for a weekend, take all the
>crap off with an angle grinder, support the entire side of the car with
>multiple jacks, to take a lot of the load off the chassis, and weld
>bars or tubes or sheets or cheap steel on. i was thinking a solid day's
>work.

Not a practical solution.

>those side bars at the bottom of the car are the only places where
>there is any real rust damage, AFAIK.

I'll bet there's a lot worse waiting for discovery.

> the underside of the car seems solid enough.

Try lifting the carpet, especially on the driver's side where boots
deposit salty slush and the wet carpet acts like a poltice holding the
brine against the floorboards.

>im leaving the salty east coast in a week for the desert. maybe that
>will give me a time extension?

no.

Let me entertain you with a war story. I was driving in January, on a
toll road. The temperature was about zero F. A toll booth was coming
up, one of those throw a quarter into a basket deals. Searching for
change, I slowed to about 20 mph and pulled off onto the side of the
road which had brine slush on it about six inches deep. The next thing
I knew about five gallons of this freezing cold slush came straight up
the front of the passenger seat and hit the roof, then splattered all
over the inside of the car. Scared the hell out of me!

What had happened was the floor on the passengers side had rusted out
and was sagging a little at front near the firewall. It acted like a
scoop and the wet, frozen carpet had hidden the fact. For the next
five minutes I was cussing and swearing as I gathered up all this
slush with my gloved but still freezing hands and threw it back out
onto the road. Then suddenly I began to laugh. It had occured to me;
suppose the wife had been sitting in that passenger seat in a skirt?

I still snicker about the scenario every once in a while, and that was
40 years ago...

On 21 Jan 2005 02:02:28 GMT, "TeGGer®" > wrote:

>> What had happened was the floor on the passengers side had rusted out
>> and was sagging a little at front near the firewall. It acted like a
>> scoop and the wet, frozen carpet had hidden the fact.
>
>That's what God made plywood for, John.
>
>Pull up the carpet, lay down the custom-cut 1/2" ply, replace carpet. SOP
>for anybody living in an area with no MoT. :^)

Well, a couple of inches ahead of that rusted out area was recess
containing a 1 inch nut, the retainer for the front subframe's right
rear mount point. An area I preferred to have reinforced with
something more substantial than plywood. Since I didn't have welding
equipment until a couple of years later, that car body got scrapped.