New engine: starts from second time

Dear All,
I'm a newbie in the automotive technology but I'm trying to learn things. In
the meantime I have a problem: the lower part of the engine (crankcase,
cylinders, etc) on my Buick Century 1996 was recently changed. It runs
perfectly, but it would only start from the second time if the car stays for
a while. If it would have driven 5 minutes ago, it may start from the first
time (sort of almost dying but finally catching up) or again from the second
time. The mechanic washed throttle body, changed coolant temperature sensor
and nothing helped: this annoying problem persists. The mechanic just gave
up, and I don't know what is going on either. Any idea? Could it be that the
computer settings must be fine-tuned? Or what else could it be? I see the
coolant temperature sensor's cable is soaked in oil and its insulation is
like a jelly, but the mechanic swears that he insulated everything with a
tape.
Many thanks for any idea.

"Karlsson-on-the-Roof" > wrote in message
...
> Dear All,
> I'm a newbie in the automotive technology but I'm trying to learn things.
In
> the meantime I have a problem: the lower part of the engine (crankcase,
> cylinders, etc) on my Buick Century 1996 was recently changed. It runs
> perfectly, but it would only start from the second time if the car stays
for
> a while. If it would have driven 5 minutes ago, it may start from the
first
> time (sort of almost dying but finally catching up) or again from the
second
> time. The mechanic washed throttle body, changed coolant temperature
sensor
> and nothing helped: this annoying problem persists. The mechanic just gave
> up, and I don't know what is going on either. Any idea? Could it be that
the
> computer settings must be fine-tuned? Or what else could it be? I see the
> coolant temperature sensor's cable is soaked in oil and its insulation is
> like a jelly, but the mechanic swears that he insulated everything with a
> tape.
> Many thanks for any idea.
>
>

Was it working before you had the engine changed?

Ted

"Karlsson-on-the-Roof" > wrote in message
...
> Dear All,
> I'm a newbie in the automotive technology but I'm trying to learn things.
In
> the meantime I have a problem: the lower part of the engine (crankcase,
> cylinders, etc) on my Buick Century 1996 was recently changed. It runs
> perfectly, but it would only start from the second time if the car stays
for
> a while. If it would have driven 5 minutes ago, it may start from the
first
> time (sort of almost dying but finally catching up) or again from the
second
> time. The mechanic washed throttle body, changed coolant temperature
sensor
> and nothing helped: this annoying problem persists. The mechanic just gave
> up, and I don't know what is going on either. Any idea? Could it be that
the
> computer settings must be fine-tuned? Or what else could it be? I see the
> coolant temperature sensor's cable is soaked in oil and its insulation is
> like a jelly, but the mechanic swears that he insulated everything with a
> tape.
> Many thanks for any idea.

Have your expert mechanic put a pressure gauge on the fuel lines. I am
betting you have a leaky injector or a bad one way valve (check valve) in
the system and that the fuel pressure is dropping in the fuel lines when the
car is shut off.

Instead of trying to start the car the first thing when you get in, switch
the ignition from off to run (but not to start) two or three times before
actually switching the key to start. I bet it will start right away then.

Ed

"Ted Mittelstaedt" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Karlsson-on-the-Roof" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Dear All,
>> I'm a newbie in the automotive technology but I'm trying to learn things.
> In
>> the meantime I have a problem: the lower part of the engine (crankcase,
>> cylinders, etc) on my Buick Century 1996 was recently changed. It runs
>> perfectly, but it would only start from the second time if the car stays
> for
>> a while. If it would have driven 5 minutes ago, it may start from the
> first
>> time (sort of almost dying but finally catching up) or again from the
> second
>> time. The mechanic washed throttle body, changed coolant temperature
> sensor
>> and nothing helped: this annoying problem persists. The mechanic just
>> gave
>> up, and I don't know what is going on either. Any idea? Could it be that
> the
>> computer settings must be fine-tuned? Or what else could it be? I see the
>> coolant temperature sensor's cable is soaked in oil and its insulation is
>> like a jelly, but the mechanic swears that he insulated everything with a
>> tape.
>> Many thanks for any idea.
>>
>>
>
> Was it working before you had the engine changed?
>
> Ted
>
>
Hi Ted,
Yes, it was always working well.
Alex.

"C. E. White" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Karlsson-on-the-Roof" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Dear All,
>> I'm a newbie in the automotive technology but I'm trying to learn things.
> In
>> the meantime I have a problem: the lower part of the engine (crankcase,
>> cylinders, etc) on my Buick Century 1996 was recently changed. It runs
>> perfectly, but it would only start from the second time if the car stays
> for
>> a while. If it would have driven 5 minutes ago, it may start from the
> first
>> time (sort of almost dying but finally catching up) or again from the
> second
>> time. The mechanic washed throttle body, changed coolant temperature
> sensor
>> and nothing helped: this annoying problem persists. The mechanic just
>> gave
>> up, and I don't know what is going on either. Any idea? Could it be that
> the
>> computer settings must be fine-tuned? Or what else could it be? I see the
>> coolant temperature sensor's cable is soaked in oil and its insulation is
>> like a jelly, but the mechanic swears that he insulated everything with a
>> tape.
>> Many thanks for any idea.
>
> Have your expert mechanic put a pressure gauge on the fuel lines. I am
> betting you have a leaky injector or a bad one way valve (check valve) in
> the system and that the fuel pressure is dropping in the fuel lines when
> the
> car is shut off.
>
> Instead of trying to start the car the first thing when you get in, switch
> the ignition from off to run (but not to start) two or three times before
> actually switching the key to start. I bet it will start right away then.
>
> Ed
>
>
Hi Ed,
I tried your trick, it didn't help. I recycled the fuel pump several times
hearing it being activated for 2 seconds. Subsecuent starting did not work.
Again I had to crank the engine 2-3 times before it went on. Any other idea?
Alex.

That tells you something too. Question: Was it HARDER to start after
cycling the key those few times. If so, You have a leaking injector.
Each time you cycle the key to bring the pressure up, that injector
leaks raw fuel into the intake runner. This causes that cylinder to foul
rich and the rest to run richer.

Karlsson-on-the-roof wrote:
> "C. E. White" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>"Karlsson-on-the-Roof" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>>Dear All,
>>>I'm a newbie in the automotive technology but I'm trying to learn things.
>>
>>In
>>
>>>the meantime I have a problem: the lower part of the engine (crankcase,
>>>cylinders, etc) on my Buick Century 1996 was recently changed. It runs
>>>perfectly, but it would only start from the second time if the car stays
>>
>>for
>>
>>>a while. If it would have driven 5 minutes ago, it may start from the
>>
>>first
>>
>>>time (sort of almost dying but finally catching up) or again from the
>>
>>second
>>
>>>time. The mechanic washed throttle body, changed coolant temperature
>>
>>sensor
>>
>>>and nothing helped: this annoying problem persists. The mechanic just
>>>gave
>>>up, and I don't know what is going on either. Any idea? Could it be that
>>
>>the
>>
>>>computer settings must be fine-tuned? Or what else could it be? I see the
>>>coolant temperature sensor's cable is soaked in oil and its insulation is
>>>like a jelly, but the mechanic swears that he insulated everything with a
>>>tape.
>>>Many thanks for any idea.
>>
>>Have your expert mechanic put a pressure gauge on the fuel lines. I am
>>betting you have a leaky injector or a bad one way valve (check valve) in
>>the system and that the fuel pressure is dropping in the fuel lines when
>>the
>>car is shut off.
>>
>>Instead of trying to start the car the first thing when you get in, switch
>>the ignition from off to run (but not to start) two or three times before
>>actually switching the key to start. I bet it will start right away then.
>>
>>Ed
>>
>>
>
> Hi Ed,
> I tried your trick, it didn't help. I recycled the fuel pump several times
> hearing it being activated for 2 seconds. Subsecuent starting did not work.
> Again I had to crank the engine 2-3 times before it went on. Any other idea?
> Alex.
>
>

"KENG" > wrote in message
. com...
>
> Karlsson-on-the-roof wrote:
>> "C. E. White" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>"Karlsson-on-the-Roof" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>>Dear All,
>>>>I'm a newbie in the automotive technology but I'm trying to learn
>>>>things.
>>>
>>>In
>>>
>>>>the meantime I have a problem: the lower part of the engine (crankcase,
>>>>cylinders, etc) on my Buick Century 1996 was recently changed. It runs
>>>>perfectly, but it would only start from the second time if the car stays
>>>
>>>for
>>>
>>>>a while. If it would have driven 5 minutes ago, it may start from the
>>>
>>>first
>>>
>>>>time (sort of almost dying but finally catching up) or again from the
>>>
>>>second
>>>
>>>>time. The mechanic washed throttle body, changed coolant temperature
>>>
>>>sensor
>>>
>>>>and nothing helped: this annoying problem persists. The mechanic just
>>>>gave
>>>>up, and I don't know what is going on either. Any idea? Could it be that
>>>
>>>the
>>>
>>>>computer settings must be fine-tuned? Or what else could it be? I see
>>>>the
>>>>coolant temperature sensor's cable is soaked in oil and its insulation
>>>>is
>>>>like a jelly, but the mechanic swears that he insulated everything with
>>>>a
>>>>tape.
>>>>Many thanks for any idea.
>>>
>>>Have your expert mechanic put a pressure gauge on the fuel lines. I am
>>>betting you have a leaky injector or a bad one way valve (check valve) in
>>>the system and that the fuel pressure is dropping in the fuel lines when
>>>the
>>>car is shut off.
>>>
>>>Instead of trying to start the car the first thing when you get in,
>>>switch
>>>the ignition from off to run (but not to start) two or three times before
>>>actually switching the key to start. I bet it will start right away then.
>>>
>>>Ed
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Hi Ed,
>> I tried your trick, it didn't help. I recycled the fuel pump several
>> times hearing it being activated for 2 seconds. Subsecuent starting did
>> not work. Again I had to crank the engine 2-3 times before it went on.
>> Any other idea?
>> Alex.

> That tells you something too. Question: Was it HARDER to start after
> cycling the key those few times. If so, You have a leaking injector. Each
> time you cycle the key to bring the pressure up, that injector leaks raw
> fuel into the intake runner. This causes that cylinder to foul rich and
> the rest to run richer.

I wouldn't say that it was harder. I brought it to another shop. They found
a loose and dirty connection to the + battery pole. It began start OK, but
then the starter became slow and was getting stuck sometimes. It appeared to
be that while fixing positive pole they made negative one loose :-). They
fixed this as well. Damn, again from the second time. What a frustration. I
thought perhaps battery was bad and voltage dropped upon startup so that the
vehicle computer was getting mad. I went to Schuck's for a new battery and
they told me that my original one is not charged well. I charged it there
and the car started from the first attempt. Let's see how well it will be
later.

"Karlsson-on-the-roof" > wrote in message
...
>
> "KENG" > wrote in message
> . com...
> >
> > Karlsson-on-the-roof wrote:
> >> "C. E. White" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >>
> >>>"Karlsson-on-the-Roof" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>>
> >>>>Dear All,
> >>>>I'm a newbie in the automotive technology but I'm trying to learn
> >>>>things.
> >>>
> >>>In
> >>>
> >>>>the meantime I have a problem: the lower part of the engine
(crankcase,
> >>>>cylinders, etc) on my Buick Century 1996 was recently changed. It runs
> >>>>perfectly, but it would only start from the second time if the car
stays
> >>>
> >>>for
> >>>
> >>>>a while. If it would have driven 5 minutes ago, it may start from the
> >>>
> >>>first
> >>>
> >>>>time (sort of almost dying but finally catching up) or again from the
> >>>
> >>>second
> >>>
> >>>>time. The mechanic washed throttle body, changed coolant temperature
> >>>
> >>>sensor
> >>>
> >>>>and nothing helped: this annoying problem persists. The mechanic just
> >>>>gave
> >>>>up, and I don't know what is going on either. Any idea? Could it be
that
> >>>
> >>>the
> >>>
> >>>>computer settings must be fine-tuned? Or what else could it be? I see
> >>>>the
> >>>>coolant temperature sensor's cable is soaked in oil and its insulation
> >>>>is
> >>>>like a jelly, but the mechanic swears that he insulated everything
with
> >>>>a
> >>>>tape.
> >>>>Many thanks for any idea.
> >>>
> >>>Have your expert mechanic put a pressure gauge on the fuel lines. I am
> >>>betting you have a leaky injector or a bad one way valve (check valve)
in
> >>>the system and that the fuel pressure is dropping in the fuel lines
when
> >>>the
> >>>car is shut off.
> >>>
> >>>Instead of trying to start the car the first thing when you get in,
> >>>switch
> >>>the ignition from off to run (but not to start) two or three times
before
> >>>actually switching the key to start. I bet it will start right away
then.
> >>>
> >>>Ed
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> Hi Ed,
> >> I tried your trick, it didn't help. I recycled the fuel pump several
> >> times hearing it being activated for 2 seconds. Subsecuent starting
did
> >> not work. Again I had to crank the engine 2-3 times before it went on.
> >> Any other idea?
> >> Alex.
>
> > That tells you something too. Question: Was it HARDER to start after
> > cycling the key those few times. If so, You have a leaking injector.
Each
> > time you cycle the key to bring the pressure up, that injector leaks raw
> > fuel into the intake runner. This causes that cylinder to foul rich and
> > the rest to run richer.
>
> I wouldn't say that it was harder. I brought it to another shop. They
found
> a loose and dirty connection to the + battery pole. It began start OK, but
> then the starter became slow and was getting stuck sometimes. It appeared
to
> be that while fixing positive pole they made negative one loose :-). They
> fixed this as well. Damn, again from the second time. What a frustration.
I
> thought perhaps battery was bad and voltage dropped upon startup so that
the
> vehicle computer was getting mad. I went to Schuck's for a new battery and
> they told me that my original one is not charged well. I charged it there
> and the car started from the first attempt. Let's see how well it will be
> later.
>
>
That's such a frustration!!! Again! Only starts from the second time. I also
noticed if I push the key really hard while cranking, there are higher
chances to start from the first time. Or if it is cranking and the engine is
not catching, some wobbling of the key produces engine "coughing", sort of
almost starting and then kicking back. I can't believe that this annoying
problem comes from the key/ignition switch. Could it be that during cranking
I have unstable voltage in the system because of some loose connection in
the key department?
Thanks for any idea. Already have two mechanics have given up :-).

"Karlsson-on-the-Roof" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Karlsson-on-the-roof" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "KENG" > wrote in message
>> . com...
>> >
>> > Karlsson-on-the-roof wrote:
>> >> "C. E. White" > wrote in message
>> >> ...
>> >>
>> >>>"Karlsson-on-the-Roof" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >>>
>> >>>>Dear All,
>> >>>>I'm a newbie in the automotive technology but I'm trying to learn
>> >>>>things.
>> >>>
>> >>>In
>> >>>
>> >>>>the meantime I have a problem: the lower part of the engine
> (crankcase,
>> >>>>cylinders, etc) on my Buick Century 1996 was recently changed. It
>> >>>>runs
>> >>>>perfectly, but it would only start from the second time if the car
> stays
>> >>>
>> >>>for
>> >>>
>> >>>>a while. If it would have driven 5 minutes ago, it may start from the
>> >>>
>> >>>first
>> >>>
>> >>>>time (sort of almost dying but finally catching up) or again from the
>> >>>
>> >>>second
>> >>>
>> >>>>time. The mechanic washed throttle body, changed coolant temperature
>> >>>
>> >>>sensor
>> >>>
>> >>>>and nothing helped: this annoying problem persists. The mechanic just
>> >>>>gave
>> >>>>up, and I don't know what is going on either. Any idea? Could it be
> that
>> >>>
>> >>>the
>> >>>
>> >>>>computer settings must be fine-tuned? Or what else could it be? I see
>> >>>>the
>> >>>>coolant temperature sensor's cable is soaked in oil and its
>> >>>>insulation
>> >>>>is
>> >>>>like a jelly, but the mechanic swears that he insulated everything
> with
>> >>>>a
>> >>>>tape.
>> >>>>Many thanks for any idea.
>> >>>
>> >>>Have your expert mechanic put a pressure gauge on the fuel lines. I am
>> >>>betting you have a leaky injector or a bad one way valve (check valve)
> in
>> >>>the system and that the fuel pressure is dropping in the fuel lines
> when
>> >>>the
>> >>>car is shut off.
>> >>>
>> >>>Instead of trying to start the car the first thing when you get in,
>> >>>switch
>> >>>the ignition from off to run (but not to start) two or three times
> before
>> >>>actually switching the key to start. I bet it will start right away
> then.
>> >>>
>> >>>Ed
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> Hi Ed,
>> >> I tried your trick, it didn't help. I recycled the fuel pump several
>> >> times hearing it being activated for 2 seconds. Subsecuent starting
> did
>> >> not work. Again I had to crank the engine 2-3 times before it went on.
>> >> Any other idea?
>> >> Alex.
>>
>> > That tells you something too. Question: Was it HARDER to start after
>> > cycling the key those few times. If so, You have a leaking injector.
> Each
>> > time you cycle the key to bring the pressure up, that injector leaks
>> > raw
>> > fuel into the intake runner. This causes that cylinder to foul rich and
>> > the rest to run richer.
>>
>> I wouldn't say that it was harder. I brought it to another shop. They
> found
>> a loose and dirty connection to the + battery pole. It began start OK,
>> but
>> then the starter became slow and was getting stuck sometimes. It appeared
> to
>> be that while fixing positive pole they made negative one loose :-). They
>> fixed this as well. Damn, again from the second time. What a frustration.
> I
>> thought perhaps battery was bad and voltage dropped upon startup so that
> the
>> vehicle computer was getting mad. I went to Schuck's for a new battery
>> and
>> they told me that my original one is not charged well. I charged it there
>> and the car started from the first attempt. Let's see how well it will be
>> later.
>>
>>
> That's such a frustration!!! Again! Only starts from the second time. I
> also
> noticed if I push the key really hard while cranking, there are higher
> chances to start from the first time. Or if it is cranking and the engine
> is
> not catching, some wobbling of the key produces engine "coughing", sort of
> almost starting and then kicking back. I can't believe that this annoying
> problem comes from the key/ignition switch. Could it be that during
> cranking
> I have unstable voltage in the system because of some loose connection in
> the key department?
> Thanks for any idea. Already have two mechanics have given up :-).
>
>

It wouldn't be inconceivable that the contacts in the ignition switch are
bad and that the problem occurring after the engine change is coincidental.

Ken

"NapalmHeart" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Karlsson-on-the-Roof" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Karlsson-on-the-roof" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "KENG" > wrote in message
>>> . com...
>>> >
>>> > Karlsson-on-the-roof wrote:
>>> >> "C. E. White" > wrote in message
>>> >> ...
>>> >>
>>> >>>"Karlsson-on-the-Roof" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>> >>>
>>> >>>>Dear All,
>>> >>>>I'm a newbie in the automotive technology but I'm trying to learn
>>> >>>>things.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>In
>>> >>>
>>> >>>>the meantime I have a problem: the lower part of the engine
>> (crankcase,
>>> >>>>cylinders, etc) on my Buick Century 1996 was recently changed. It
>>> >>>>runs
>>> >>>>perfectly, but it would only start from the second time if the car
>> stays
>>> >>>
>>> >>>for
>>> >>>
>>> >>>>a while. If it would have driven 5 minutes ago, it may start from
>>> >>>>the
>>> >>>
>>> >>>first
>>> >>>
>>> >>>>time (sort of almost dying but finally catching up) or again from
>>> >>>>the
>>> >>>
>>> >>>second
>>> >>>
>>> >>>>time. The mechanic washed throttle body, changed coolant temperature
>>> >>>
>>> >>>sensor
>>> >>>
>>> >>>>and nothing helped: this annoying problem persists. The mechanic
>>> >>>>just
>>> >>>>gave
>>> >>>>up, and I don't know what is going on either. Any idea? Could it be
>> that
>>> >>>
>>> >>>the
>>> >>>
>>> >>>>computer settings must be fine-tuned? Or what else could it be? I
>>> >>>>see
>>> >>>>the
>>> >>>>coolant temperature sensor's cable is soaked in oil and its
>>> >>>>insulation
>>> >>>>is
>>> >>>>like a jelly, but the mechanic swears that he insulated everything
>> with
>>> >>>>a
>>> >>>>tape.
>>> >>>>Many thanks for any idea.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>Have your expert mechanic put a pressure gauge on the fuel lines. I
>>> >>>am
>>> >>>betting you have a leaky injector or a bad one way valve (check
>>> >>>valve)
>> in
>>> >>>the system and that the fuel pressure is dropping in the fuel lines
>> when
>>> >>>the
>>> >>>car is shut off.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>Instead of trying to start the car the first thing when you get in,
>>> >>>switch
>>> >>>the ignition from off to run (but not to start) two or three times
>> before
>>> >>>actually switching the key to start. I bet it will start right away
>> then.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>Ed
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >> Hi Ed,
>>> >> I tried your trick, it didn't help. I recycled the fuel pump several
>>> >> times hearing it being activated for 2 seconds. Subsecuent starting
>> did
>>> >> not work. Again I had to crank the engine 2-3 times before it went
>>> >> on.
>>> >> Any other idea?
>>> >> Alex.
>>>
>>> > That tells you something too. Question: Was it HARDER to start after
>>> > cycling the key those few times. If so, You have a leaking injector.
>> Each
>>> > time you cycle the key to bring the pressure up, that injector leaks
>>> > raw
>>> > fuel into the intake runner. This causes that cylinder to foul rich
>>> > and
>>> > the rest to run richer.
>>>
>>> I wouldn't say that it was harder. I brought it to another shop. They
>> found
>>> a loose and dirty connection to the + battery pole. It began start OK,
>>> but
>>> then the starter became slow and was getting stuck sometimes. It
>>> appeared
>> to
>>> be that while fixing positive pole they made negative one loose :-).
>>> They
>>> fixed this as well. Damn, again from the second time. What a
>>> frustration.
>> I
>>> thought perhaps battery was bad and voltage dropped upon startup so that
>> the
>>> vehicle computer was getting mad. I went to Schuck's for a new battery
>>> and
>>> they told me that my original one is not charged well. I charged it
>>> there
>>> and the car started from the first attempt. Let's see how well it will
>>> be
>>> later.
>>>
>>>
>> That's such a frustration!!! Again! Only starts from the second time. I
>> also
>> noticed if I push the key really hard while cranking, there are higher
>> chances to start from the first time. Or if it is cranking and the engine
>> is
>> not catching, some wobbling of the key produces engine "coughing", sort
>> of
>> almost starting and then kicking back. I can't believe that this annoying
>> problem comes from the key/ignition switch. Could it be that during
>> cranking
>> I have unstable voltage in the system because of some loose connection in
>> the key department?
>> Thanks for any idea. Already have two mechanics have given up :-).
>>
>>
>
> It wouldn't be inconceivable that the contacts in the ignition switch are
> bad and that the problem occurring after the engine change is
> coincidental.
>
> Ken
>
I brough it to the third autoshop. Finally they found the reason: grounding
of the computer was loose and during high power demand (cranking) the
voltage was dropping below acceptable levels and the computer was getting
mad.