Compression Test without a cambelt

hi there.I have a 95 honda civic with a D15B3 engine(1.5l 16v).The
timing belt resently broke and Im trying to see if any valves bend
without removing the head. Ive removed the rocker arms and the sparks
plugs.My question is whether or not Ill be able to determine anything
if I do a compression test the way the engine is now?If so what
pressure whould show all is good?I cant do a leak down test(dont have
the equipment) and cant tow the car to a shop to have them do it.The
seller told be the engine was overhualed a month ago and before the
belt braking the engine ran very well,so Im not afraid of worn rings
and stuff like that.

On 08/16/2011 06:12 AM, Juan-Pierre Herboth wrote:
> hi there.I have a 95 honda civic with a D15B3 engine(1.5l 16v).The
> timing belt resently broke and Im trying to see if any valves bend
> without removing the head. Ive removed the rocker arms and the sparks
> plugs.My question is whether or not Ill be able to determine anything
> if I do a compression test the way the engine is now?If so what
> pressure whould show all is good?I cant do a leak down test(dont have
> the equipment) and cant tow the car to a shop to have them do it.The
> seller told be the engine was overhualed a month ago and before the
> belt braking the engine ran very well,so Im not afraid of worn rings
> and stuff like that.

you don't need to compression test to see if the valves are good. put
the rockers back on and simply check the valve lash - if you have one
that's huge, the valves are bent. if not, you're good to go - just
replace the belt.

despite all the bleating you read on the net about honda engines and
"interference", it's actually unusual for there to be any damage. when
the belt breaks for normal users, it's usually at low rpm's [when cam
friction and thus belt tension is at its highest because there's no
hydrodynamic separation of the cam face and the followers], so the cam
gets time to snap into one of its four "relaxed" positions in which the
pistons can then freewheel.

when fitting a new belt, do NOT buy cheap crap. oem suppliers are
mitsuboshi and bando. if you don't buy "honda" brand, which is your
guarantee of reliability, stick to the oem suppliers if you're convinced
you need to save a buck.


--
nomina rutrum rutrum

thanx Jim. I got a Gates replacement belt and will change it after 3/4
of the service life to make sure it will make it.About my compression
test idea?Can I go ahead a test?Im still waiting for the o-rings that
go under the rockerarm support so I have time.The o-rings are order
from honda and will take another day or 2 to arrive.
Regards
JP

On 08/16/2011 08:36 AM, Juan-Pierre Herboth wrote:
> thanx Jim. I got a Gates replacement belt and will change it after 3/4
> of the service life to make sure it will make it.About my compression
> test idea?Can I go ahead a test?Im still waiting for the o-rings that
> go under the rockerarm support so I have time.The o-rings are order
> from honda and will take another day or 2 to arrive.
> Regards
> JP

you'll not get any meaningful compression test if the valves are not
being operated - which they won't be if there are no rocker arms and no
belt.

in the mean time, you can still check the lash, so put the rockers back
on now. if any valves are bent, you'll have to take the head off to
check for more damage, so it's pointless fitting new stuff until you've
done your diagnostics.


--
nomina rutrum rutrum

thanx again Jim.I didnt get a owners manual with and found one
online.But since Im from RSA my engine is not shown in the
manual,closest is the D15B7 and its a fi engine.Do u know where I can
find the valve lash settings.Also since,I dont trust the previous
mechanic, what kind of pressure would I expect from a cold dry
compression test if I end up putting it all back together?I dont trust
the previous mechanic when It comes to the valve lash since the belt
broke only a month after a 'overhaul'.I didnt get a owners manual with
and found one online.But since Im from RSA my engine is not shown in
the manual,closest is the D15B7 and its a fi engine.Do u know where I
can find the valve lash settings.Also since,I dont trust the previous
mechanic, what kind of pressure would I expect from a cold dry
compression test if I end up putting it all back together?I dont trust
the previous mechanic when It comes to the valve lash since the belt
broke only a month after a 'overhaul'.

Juan-Pierre Herboth > wrote in news:1891f605-103d-4ccd-
:

> thanx again Jim.I didnt get a owners manual with and found one
> online.But since Im from RSA my engine is not shown in the
> manual,closest is the D15B7 and its a fi engine.Do u know where I can
> find the valve lash settings.Also since,I dont trust the previous
> mechanic, what kind of pressure would I expect from a cold dry
> compression test if I end up putting it all back together?I dont trust
> the previous mechanic when It comes to the valve lash since the belt
> broke only a month after a 'overhaul'.I didnt get a owners manual with
> and found one online.But since Im from RSA my engine is not shown in
> the manual,closest is the D15B7 and its a fi engine.Do u know where I
> can find the valve lash settings.Also since,I dont trust the previous
> mechanic, what kind of pressure would I expect from a cold dry
> compression test if I end up putting it all back together?I dont trust
> the previous mechanic when It comes to the valve lash since the belt
> broke only a month after a 'overhaul'.
>


Just temporarily put the head back on the block with a new gasket and
tighten as per spec. But WITHOUT the cams or rockers.

Now feed shop air into each spark plug hole in turn, and listen at the
intake and exhaust ports for that cylinder for any hissing noises. No hiss
out the ports, no leak at the valves, and thus no bent valves on that
cylinder.

--
Tegger

On 08/16/2011 04:27 PM, Tegger wrote:
> Juan-Pierre > wrote in news:1891f605-103d-4ccd-
> :
>
>> thanx again Jim.I didnt get a owners manual with and found one
>> online.But since Im from RSA my engine is not shown in the
>> manual,closest is the D15B7 and its a fi engine.Do u know where I can
>> find the valve lash settings.Also since,I dont trust the previous
>> mechanic, what kind of pressure would I expect from a cold dry
>> compression test if I end up putting it all back together?I dont trust
>> the previous mechanic when It comes to the valve lash since the belt
>> broke only a month after a 'overhaul'.I didnt get a owners manual with
>> and found one online.But since Im from RSA my engine is not shown in
>> the manual,closest is the D15B7 and its a fi engine.Do u know where I
>> can find the valve lash settings.Also since,I dont trust the previous
>> mechanic, what kind of pressure would I expect from a cold dry
>> compression test if I end up putting it all back together?I dont trust
>> the previous mechanic when It comes to the valve lash since the belt
>> broke only a month after a 'overhaul'.
>>
>
>
> Just temporarily put the head back on the block with a new gasket and
> tighten as per spec. But WITHOUT the cams or rockers.
>
> Now feed shop air into each spark plug hole in turn, and listen at the
> intake and exhaust ports for that cylinder for any hissing noises. No hiss
> out the ports, no leak at the valves, and thus no bent valves on that
> cylinder.
>

that'll work too. if he has air...


--
nomina rutrum rutrum

On 08/16/2011 10:35 AM, Juan-Pierre Herboth wrote:
> thanx again Jim.I didnt get a owners manual with and found one
> online.But since Im from RSA my engine is not shown in the
> manual,closest is the D15B7 and its a fi engine.Do u know where I can
> find the valve lash settings.Also since,I dont trust the previous
> mechanic, what kind of pressure would I expect from a cold dry
> compression test if I end up putting it all back together?I dont trust
> the previous mechanic when It comes to the valve lash since the belt
> broke only a month after a 'overhaul'.I didnt get a owners manual with
> and found one online.But since Im from RSA my engine is not shown in
> the manual,closest is the D15B7 and its a fi engine.Do u know where I
> can find the valve lash settings.Also since,I dont trust the previous
> mechanic, what kind of pressure would I expect from a cold dry
> compression test if I end up putting it all back together?I dont trust
> the previous mechanic when It comes to the valve lash since the belt
> broke only a month after a 'overhaul'.

clearances should be the same as the d15b7, d15b2, etc. they're usually
on the sticker that's under the hood.

but you don't need them for this. you're not looking at a couple of
thou difference, you're looking at either just a little, like normal, or
a honking great slop, which is a bent valve.

as for the compression test, frankly, it's sometimes best not to know.
as long as the motor runs, doesn't burn too much oil, and has sufficient
guts, it's irrelevant to most operation.

as for why the belt should fail so soon after "overhaul", well,
sometimes people don't do what they were paid to do, so maybe the belt
was never changed and it failed through normal old age. but there are
other potential reasons:

1. abrasives used in "overhaul". they just float about the engine and
wear the cam [and the rest of the motor]. once the cam wears through
its hard coating, the soft stuff underneath causes a DRAMATIC increase
in friction coefficient and thus belt load. particularly at idle.

2. belt was damaged while fitting. use of levers, or even just folding
can ruin a belt.

3. other mechanical stoppage. make sure the coolant pump hasn't seized
or the motor hasn't thrown a rod. for the latter, using a stick poked
down each spark plug hole, make sure each piston is still attached the
crank. [the civic d-series connecting rods are tiny little things -
i've seen a number fail.]


--
nomina rutrum rutrum

Thanx Jim and Tegger.
@Tegger:I spend some time going through the stuff on your site and it
was quite helpful. From what I can see finding the o-rings under the
rockerarm support is difficult in my area (Cape Town, South Africa).I
was only able to find it at the dealership. By the looks of things the
previous mechanic had a similar experience and decided to just put
liquid sealer under there and the 1st problem I found when the car
died was oil soaked spark plug. Your site helped me realise the seal
problem.However like Jim said,I cant get to a shop and dont have a
compressor.Ill check but I have a little electric compressor used for
pumping up tyres.Its not very powerful, but I see the manual talking
about 250 kPa,which is 2.5 bar, my tyres is pumped to 2 bar so that
little thing should work Ill just have a look at how to set it up.
@ Jim: I was thinking the same thing about the compression. The car
ran fine and the oil usage was good.Little oil leak, but its an old
car and my other old car also had a leak,its something I can live
with. Ill put the head and check the clearance.If Im looking for a big
gap then it should be rather easy to see.It was interesting to note
that #1 cylinder had the intake valves full open,so I think I might
have 4 valves that might be bend.Ill check and let u guys know.
Thanx again guys.e stuff on your site and it was quite helpful. From
what I can see finding the o-rings under the rockerarm support is
difficult in my area (Cape Town, South Africa).I was only able to find
it at the dealership. By the looks of things the previous mechanic had
a similar experience and decided to just put liquid sealer under there
and the 1st problem I found when the car died was oil soaked spark
plug. Your site helped me realise the seal problem.However like Jim
said,I cant get to a shop and dont have a compressor.Ill check but I
have a little electric compressor used for pumping up tyres.Its not
very powerful, but I see the manual talking about 250 kPa,which is 2.5
bar, my tyres is pumped to 2 bar so that little thing should work Ill
just have a look at how to set it up.
@ Jim: I was thinking the same thing about the compression. The car
ran fine and the oil usage was good.Little oil leak, but its an old
car and my other old car also had a leak,its something I can live
with. Ill put the head and check the clearance.If Im looking for a big
gap then it should be rather easy to see.It was interesting to note
that #1 cylinder had the intake valves full open,so I think I might
have 4 valves that might be bend.Ill check and let u guys know.
Thanx again guys.

Thanx Jim and Tegger.
@Tegger:I spend some time going through the stuff on your site and it
was quite helpful. From what I can see finding the o-rings under the
rockerarm support is difficult in my area (Cape Town, South Africa).I
was only able to find it at the dealership. By the looks of things the
previous mechanic had a similar experience and decided to just put
liquid sealer under there and the 1st problem I found when the car
died was oil soaked spark plug. Your site helped me realise the seal
problem.However like Jim said,I cant get to a shop and dont have a
compressor.Ill check but I have a little electric compressor used for
pumping up tyres.Its not very powerful, but I see the manual talking
about 250 kPa,which is 2.5 bar, my tyres is pumped to 2 bar so that
little thing should work Ill just have a look at how to set it up.
@ Jim: I was thinking the same thing about the compression. The car
ran fine and the oil usage was good.Little oil leak, but its an old
car and my other old car also had a leak,its something I can live
with. Ill put the head and check the clearance.If Im looking for a big
gap then it should be rather easy to see.It was interesting to note
that #1 cylinder had the intake valves full open,so I think I might
have 4 valves that might be bend.Ill check and let u guys know.
Thanx again guys.e stuff on your site and it was quite helpful. From
what I can see finding the o-rings under the rockerarm support is
difficult in my area (Cape Town, South Africa).I was only able to find
it at the dealership. By the looks of things the previous mechanic had
a similar experience and decided to just put liquid sealer under there
and the 1st problem I found when the car died was oil soaked spark
plug. Your site helped me realise the seal problem.However like Jim
said,I cant get to a shop and dont have a compressor.Ill check but I
have a little electric compressor used for pumping up tyres.Its not
very powerful, but I see the manual talking about 250 kPa,which is 2.5
bar, my tyres is pumped to 2 bar so that little thing should work Ill
just have a look at how to set it up.
@ Jim: I was thinking the same thing about the compression. The car
ran fine and the oil usage was good.Little oil leak, but its an old
car and my other old car also had a leak,its something I can live
with. Ill put the head and check the clearance.If Im looking for a big
gap then it should be rather easy to see.It was interesting to note
that #1 cylinder had the intake valves full open,so I think I might
have 4 valves that might be bend.Ill check and let u guys know.
Thanx again guys.