CJ to TJ swap

Yesterday was a good day and a sad day. I drove to the local dealership in
my '86 CJ and drove home in a '04 TJ. I got the X model (Columbia edition)
with 13k miles. So in effect, i am a "new" jeep owner, since this TJ is a
totally different animal than I what I have been driving for the past 10
years. I admit that there were tears in my eyes when I drove off the lot
and looked back at my old jeep for the last time. The jeep is my daily
driver and the CJ had gotten to the point where maintenance was a continuous
affair and was a killer financially so.........what do i have to look
forward to as I learn about this TJ besides being closer to the ground? I
will not be able to get this one out on a trail for several months, so don't
even know how to put it in 4wd yet.....but I won't have to jump out to lock
in anymore hubs. Thanks in advance for comments and suggestions.

Crushed Red Pepper wrote:
> Yesterday was a good day and a sad day. I drove to the local dealership in
> my '86 CJ and drove home in a '04 TJ. I got the X model (Columbia edition)
> with 13k miles. So in effect, i am a "new" jeep owner, since this TJ is a
> totally different animal than I what I have been driving for the past 10
> years. I admit that there were tears in my eyes when I drove off the lot
> and looked back at my old jeep for the last time. The jeep is my daily
> driver and the CJ had gotten to the point where maintenance was a continuous
> affair and was a killer financially so.........what do i have to look
> forward to as I learn about this TJ besides being closer to the ground? I
> will not be able to get this one out on a trail for several months, so don't
> even know how to put it in 4wd yet.....but I won't have to jump out to lock
> in anymore hubs. Thanks in advance for comments and suggestions.

Hate to give up something you've put so much time and effort into... I
know the feeling.

On the bright side assuming your CJ had the old 258. You've got a better
more durable newer engine, with about the same power in that X even if
it's got two less cylinders (X is the base model 4 banger? Or is that
the SE, and the X is the base 4.0?) if it's the 4.0 it's better AND it's
nearly twice as powerful* as a tired 258.

*Note: this is where someone (probably Bill) compares the 258's FLYWHEEL
factory rated 100-ish horse power number to the 4.0's REAR WHEEL 140-ish
factory number; and concludes that I'm wrong.

Your new Jeep rides better and articulates better. Mike and Bill will
disagree, but they are wrong. Mike is wrong because he relies on his own
anecdotal ("I did blahblah, and the TJ couldn't) evidence based on his
high driver skill and experience. Bill is wrong because his Jeep 40
years ago had leaf springs and that's approximately the same point he
buried his head in the sand and stopped allowing himself to adapt or
evolve. Anyway it's superior and self-evident to anyone paying any
attention to the modern off-roading world where coil suspensions rule
all major dirt sports from Desert racing to Rock Crawling.

It's heavier, it probably has weaker axles and transfer case (depending
on what your CJ had and how the X is optioned, but besides this is a
more capable 4x4 in stock trim or with identical mods.
In fact at the upper end of the scale (long arm, coil over TJ's), the CJ
will require tricks like "revolver" shackles, or three quarter
elliptical buggy springs or in fact total coil over "link" based
suspension conversions to keep up...

--
Simon
"I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein

Simon Juncal wrote:
>
> Crushed Red Pepper wrote:
> > Yesterday was a good day and a sad day. I drove to the local dealership in
> > my '86 CJ and drove home in a '04 TJ. I got the X model (Columbia edition)
> > with 13k miles. So in effect, i am a "new" jeep owner, since this TJ is a
> > totally different animal than I what I have been driving for the past 10
> > years. I admit that there were tears in my eyes when I drove off the lot
> > and looked back at my old jeep for the last time. The jeep is my daily
> > driver and the CJ had gotten to the point where maintenance was a continuous
> > affair and was a killer financially so.........what do i have to look
> > forward to as I learn about this TJ besides being closer to the ground? I
> > will not be able to get this one out on a trail for several months, so don't
> > even know how to put it in 4wd yet.....but I won't have to jump out to lock
> > in anymore hubs. Thanks in advance for comments and suggestions.
>
> Hate to give up something you've put so much time and effort into... I
> know the feeling.
>
> On the bright side assuming your CJ had the old 258. You've got a better
> more durable newer engine, with about the same power in that X even if
> it's got two less cylinders (X is the base model 4 banger? Or is that
> the SE, and the X is the base 4.0?) if it's the 4.0 it's better AND it's
> nearly twice as powerful* as a tired 258.
>
> *Note: this is where someone (probably Bill) compares the 258's FLYWHEEL
> factory rated 100-ish horse power number to the 4.0's REAR WHEEL 140-ish
> factory number; and concludes that I'm wrong.
>
> Your new Jeep rides better and articulates better. Mike and Bill will
> disagree, but they are wrong. Mike is wrong because he relies on his own
> anecdotal ("I did blahblah, and the TJ couldn't) evidence based on his
> high driver skill and experience. Bill is wrong because his Jeep 40
> years ago had leaf springs and that's approximately the same point he
> buried his head in the sand and stopped allowing himself to adapt or
> evolve. Anyway it's superior and self-evident to anyone paying any
> attention to the modern off-roading world where coil suspensions rule
> all major dirt sports from Desert racing to Rock Crawling.
>
> It's heavier, it probably has weaker axles and transfer case (depending
> on what your CJ had and how the X is optioned, but besides this is a
> more capable 4x4 in stock trim or with identical mods.
> In fact at the upper end of the scale (long arm, coil over TJ's), the CJ
> will require tricks like "revolver" shackles, or three quarter
> elliptical buggy springs or in fact total coil over "link" based
> suspension conversions to keep up...
>
> --
> Simon

What a pile of pure horse****!

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Rabble!!

On Dec 29, 10:57 am, Mike Romain > wrote:
> Simon Juncal wrote:
>
> > Crushed Red Pepper wrote:
> > > Yesterday was a good day and a sad day. I drove to the local dealership in
> > > my '86 CJ and drove home in a '04 TJ. I got the X model (Columbia edition)
> > > with 13k miles. So in effect, i am a "new" jeep owner, since this TJ is a
> > > totally different animal than I what I have been driving for the past 10
> > > years. I admit that there were tears in my eyes when I drove off the lot
> > > and looked back at my old jeep for the last time. The jeep is my daily
> > > driver and the CJ had gotten to the point where maintenance was a continuous
> > > affair and was a killer financially so.........what do i have to look
> > > forward to as I learn about this TJ besides being closer to the ground? I
> > > will not be able to get this one out on a trail for several months, so don't
> > > even know how to put it in 4wd yet.....but I won't have to jump out to lock
> > > in anymore hubs. Thanks in advance for comments and suggestions.
>
> > Hate to give up something you've put so much time and effort into... I
> > know the feeling.
>
> > On the bright side assuming your CJ had the old 258. You've got a better
> > more durable newer engine, with about the same power in that X even if
> > it's got two less cylinders (X is the base model 4 banger? Or is that
> > the SE, and the X is the base 4.0?) if it's the 4.0 it's better AND it's
> > nearly twice as powerful* as a tired 258.
>
> > *Note: this is where someone (probably Bill) compares the 258's FLYWHEEL
> > factory rated 100-ish horse power number to the 4.0's REAR WHEEL 140-ish
> > factory number; and concludes that I'm wrong.
>
> > Your new Jeep rides better and articulates better. Mike and Bill will
> > disagree, but they are wrong. Mike is wrong because he relies on his own
> > anecdotal ("I did blahblah, and the TJ couldn't) evidence based on his
> > high driver skill and experience. Bill is wrong because his Jeep 40
> > years ago had leaf springs and that's approximately the same point he
> > buried his head in the sand and stopped allowing himself to adapt or
> > evolve. Anyway it's superior and self-evident to anyone paying any
> > attention to the modern off-roading world where coil suspensions rule
> > all major dirt sports from Desert racing to Rock Crawling.
>
> > It's heavier, it probably has weaker axles and transfer case (depending
> > on what your CJ had and how the X is optioned, but besides this is a
> > more capable 4x4 in stock trim or with identical mods.
> > In fact at the upper end of the scale (long arm, coil over TJ's), the CJ
> > will require tricks like "revolver" shackles, or three quarter
> > elliptical buggy springs or in fact total coil over "link" based
> > suspension conversions to keep up...
>
> > --
> > SimonWhat a pile of pure horse****!
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

A TJ with articulation of a Real Jeep after it's leaf spring
conversion: http://www.billhughes.com/TJleafSprings/
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O


Simon Juncal wrote:
>
> Crushed Red Pepper wrote:
> > Yesterday was a good day and a sad day. I drove to the local dealership in
> > my '86 CJ and drove home in a '04 TJ. I got the X model (Columbia edition)
> > with 13k miles. So in effect, i am a "new" jeep owner, since this TJ is a
> > totally different animal than I what I have been driving for the past 10
> > years. I admit that there were tears in my eyes when I drove off the lot
> > and looked back at my old jeep for the last time. The jeep is my daily
> > driver and the CJ had gotten to the point where maintenance was a continuous
> > affair and was a killer financially so.........what do i have to look
> > forward to as I learn about this TJ besides being closer to the ground? I
> > will not be able to get this one out on a trail for several months, so don't
> > even know how to put it in 4wd yet.....but I won't have to jump out to lock
> > in anymore hubs. Thanks in advance for comments and suggestions.
>
> Hate to give up something you've put so much time and effort into... I
> know the feeling.
>
> On the bright side assuming your CJ had the old 258. You've got a better
> more durable newer engine, with about the same power in that X even if
> it's got two less cylinders (X is the base model 4 banger? Or is that
> the SE, and the X is the base 4.0?) if it's the 4.0 it's better AND it's
> nearly twice as powerful* as a tired 258.
>
> *Note: this is where someone (probably Bill) compares the 258's FLYWHEEL
> factory rated 100-ish horse power number to the 4.0's REAR WHEEL 140-ish
> factory number; and concludes that I'm wrong.
>
> Your new Jeep rides better and articulates better. Mike and Bill will
> disagree, but they are wrong. Mike is wrong because he relies on his own
> anecdotal ("I did blahblah, and the TJ couldn't) evidence based on his
> high driver skill and experience. Bill is wrong because his Jeep 40
> years ago had leaf springs and that's approximately the same point he
> buried his head in the sand and stopped allowing himself to adapt or
> evolve. Anyway it's superior and self-evident to anyone paying any
> attention to the modern off-roading world where coil suspensions rule
> all major dirt sports from Desert racing to Rock Crawling.
>
> It's heavier, it probably has weaker axles and transfer case (depending
> on what your CJ had and how the X is optioned, but besides this is a
> more capable 4x4 in stock trim or with identical mods.
> In fact at the upper end of the scale (long arm, coil over TJ's), the CJ
> will require tricks like "revolver" shackles, or three quarter
> elliptical buggy springs or in fact total coil over "link" based
> suspension conversions to keep up...
>
> --
> Simon
> "I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein

Congrats on the new Jeep. Hope it's trouble free for you.

Where are you located? I know several folks looking for CJ7's....

One really funny thing you can do with a TJ that you can't do with a CJ
is to get out and walk it up a sand pit wall. The computer in that
thing will not let it stall, so when you put it in 1st low and let out
the clutch, it will drive itself up a hill without needing any gas
pedal. This is neat because you don't spin tires easy that way. I have
photos of a gent from this newsgroup literally walking outside while his
TJ climbed the pit wall.

One really bad thing about them on sand or loose dirt climbs is the
tires hop and spin really easily because of the soft springs which just
digs holes really fast. You gotta watch your gas pedal and shift points
carefully.

You also have to watch out for your rocker panels if you are crawling
through boulders. Unlike the CJ7 which lifted the whole side of the
Jeep up when you ran a tire over a rock, the TJ's coil will just let the
tire come up leaving the rocker panel low. They do make nice rocker
panel skid plates for them at least.

You will need to watch out for your air intake also. Lots of them have
a ram air scoop just below the headlight so if you have water splash
over the bumper, the engine will take a gulp. This is bad for pistons
to say the least.... I have seen folks from this newsgroup use ABS pipe
to route the air intake up and back for off road.

Have fun!

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Crushed Red Pepper wrote:
>
> Yesterday was a good day and a sad day. I drove to the local dealership in
> my '86 CJ and drove home in a '04 TJ. I got the X model (Columbia edition)
> with 13k miles. So in effect, i am a "new" jeep owner, since this TJ is a
> totally different animal than I what I have been driving for the past 10
> years. I admit that there were tears in my eyes when I drove off the lot
> and looked back at my old jeep for the last time. The jeep is my daily
> driver and the CJ had gotten to the point where maintenance was a continuous
> affair and was a killer financially so.........what do i have to look
> forward to as I learn about this TJ besides being closer to the ground? I
> will not be able to get this one out on a trail for several months, so don't
> even know how to put it in 4wd yet.....but I won't have to jump out to lock
> in anymore hubs. Thanks in advance for comments and suggestions.

Ditto.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
http://www.billhughes.com/

Mike Romain wrote:
>
> Congrats on the new Jeep. Hope it's trouble free for you.
>
> Where are you located? I know several folks looking for CJ7's....
>
> One really funny thing you can do with a TJ that you can't do with a CJ
> is to get out and walk it up a sand pit wall. The computer in that
> thing will not let it stall, so when you put it in 1st low and let out
> the clutch, it will drive itself up a hill without needing any gas
> pedal. This is neat because you don't spin tires easy that way. I have
> photos of a gent from this newsgroup literally walking outside while his
> TJ climbed the pit wall.
>
> One really bad thing about them on sand or loose dirt climbs is the
> tires hop and spin really easily because of the soft springs which just
> digs holes really fast. You gotta watch your gas pedal and shift points
> carefully.
>
> You also have to watch out for your rocker panels if you are crawling
> through boulders. Unlike the CJ7 which lifted the whole side of the
> Jeep up when you ran a tire over a rock, the TJ's coil will just let the
> tire come up leaving the rocker panel low. They do make nice rocker
> panel skid plates for them at least.
>
> You will need to watch out for your air intake also. Lots of them have
> a ram air scoop just below the headlight so if you have water splash
> over the bumper, the engine will take a gulp. This is bad for pistons
> to say the least.... I have seen folks from this newsgroup use ABS pipe
> to route the air intake up and back for off road.
>
> Have fun!
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> Crushed Red Pepper wrote:
> >
> > Yesterday was a good day and a sad day. I drove to the local dealership in
> > my '86 CJ and drove home in a '04 TJ. I got the X model (Columbia edition)
> > with 13k miles. So in effect, i am a "new" jeep owner, since this TJ is a
> > totally different animal than I what I have been driving for the past 10
> > years. I admit that there were tears in my eyes when I drove off the lot
> > and looked back at my old jeep for the last time. The jeep is my daily
> > driver and the CJ had gotten to the point where maintenance was a continuous
> > affair and was a killer financially so.........what do i have to look
> > forward to as I learn about this TJ besides being closer to the ground? I
> > will not be able to get this one out on a trail for several months, so don't
> > even know how to put it in 4wd yet.....but I won't have to jump out to lock
> > in anymore hubs. Thanks in advance for comments and suggestions.

L.W.(Bill) Hughes III wrote:
> A TJ with articulation of a Real Jeep after it's leaf spring
> conversion: http://www.billhughes.com/TJleafSprings/

<yawn> I can post links to coil converted CJ's all day long, they are
SURE as hell a lot more common than leaf sprung TJ's

--
Simon
"I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein

You show me a something with a TJ body on it that will have four
foot of travel between the rear and front axles, like these leaf
springs: http://www.billhughes.com/TJleafSpri...afRearRamp.jpg
Also I found an 4 liter injected head that proves the problem you
will have using the stock carburetor manifold in an attempt to cover
them: http://www.billhughes.com/temp/bill_is_wrong.jpg What an idiot,
hope you lean out and suck a valve in the middle of no where. And what
abortion are you covering up with that sign????
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O


Simon Juncal wrote:
>
> <yawn> I can post links to coil converted CJ's all day long, they are
> SURE as hell a lot more common than leaf sprung TJ's
>
> --
> Simon

L.W.(Bill) Hughes III wrote:
> You show me a something with a TJ body on it that will have four
> foot of travel between the rear and front axles, like these leaf
> springs: http://www.billhughes.com/TJleafSpri...afRearRamp.jpg

Again one custom TJ does not prove your argument Bill, how in the world
did you get though life into advanced senility without understanding that?

I'm sure that the 52" Michelin XLT clad coil sprung TJ that won Top
truck challenge 06 can flex as much, Or how about the CJ8 with coil over
suspension that won top truck challenge 05? Or the 55 WILLYS with coils
that came in 2nd. In fact the top three finishers ALL HAD COILS AND ALL
WERE JEEPS!... If that's not enough the LAST THREE placers all had LEAFS
(two of them jeeps).
http://www.fourwheeler.com/2005toptruckchallenge/

At least my examples include multiple vehicles all competing over the
same obstacles. All you have is a stupid picture of someone's rockwell
axled TJ.

> Also I found an 4 liter injected head that proves the problem you
> will have using the stock carburetor manifold in an attempt to cover

Did you find the missing link, Atlantis and the second shooter?

> them: http://www.billhughes.com/temp/bill_is_wrong.jpg What an idiot,
> hope you lean out and suck a valve in the middle of no where. And what

Actually Bill as I've said a few times now that the YJ is getting a 4.6L
stroker. That's okay you go back to starring blankly at your dribble
cup, and blurting out the occasional semi-relivant googled link.

> abortion are you covering up with that sign????

Man you are a paranoid freak, behind the sign is my super secret
radio-cranialrectifier, it beams signals to your house to instruct you
to remove the former from the later.

unfortunately it's not working:
http://www.21stcenturycares.org/ADD%...E/image020.jpg

(I've told him it's a holley throttle body injector three or four times
but he's too far gone to comprehend anything at this point)

--
Simon
"I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein