1998 Grand Caravan

"NewMan" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 06:46:11 -0700, "Budd Cochran" <mr-d150@preciscom
> SPAM.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Gary Glaenzer" > wrote in message
>>news:uYUPf.31207$W42.21741@trnddc02...
>>>
>>> "Budd Cochran" <mr-d150@preciscom SPAM.net> wrote in message
>>> om...
>>>> Ok, I'm confused . . . .
>>>>
>>>> Gary,
>>>>
>>>> We ended up buying a rebuilt 604 and installing it after I started
>>>> having
>>>> some chest pains again. No heart attack, just a warning. Now we're like
>>> that
>>>> guy in the home loan commercials, in debt up to our eyeballs. Btw,
>>>> found
>>> out
>>>> the one we took out was a rebuilt unit probably from AAMCO. . . but it
>>>> lasted 40,000 miles with a 25 year old lead foot driving it in sunny
>>> Florida
>>>> for 25,000 of those miles.
>>>>
>>>> I got it programmed pretty easily out on a back road and it seems to be
>>>> fine.
>>>>
>>>> "Gary Glaenzer" > wrote in message
>>>> news:vLLPf.72361$_A4.25472@trnddc06...
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > "NewMan" > wrote in message
>>>> > ...
>>>> >> Most of the nasty tranny problems from the early 90s were fixed by
>>>> >> this time. The main thing is change that fluid! Take it to a
>>>> >> competant
>>>> >> tranny shop, and have the fluid changed. Depending upon the amount
>>>> >> of
>>>> >> driving, I would say every couple of years. This service is one
>>>> >> where
>>>> >> they drop the pan and replace the internal filter. DO NOT let them
>>>> >> pressure flush the tranny. DO NOT let ANY shop lay a hand on that
>>>> >> transmission if they want to put anything other than ATF +4 fluid in
>>>> >> it. Dexron III with Lube-guard DOES NOT CUT IT. Make sure they drop
>>>> >> the pan. DO NOT let them just drain and refill with new fluid.
>>>> >
>>>> > ATF +4 did not arrive till 2000
>>>> >
>>>> > ATF +3 is specified, you can use +4 but it's needless expense
>>>>
>>>> I have to either order ATF+4 by the case or go to Grand Juction CO to
>>>> get
>>> it
>>>> as no one will stock it locally. I can get ATF+3 locally. Is there a
>>>> way
>>> to
>>>> tell if the rebuilt needs the expensive stuff? The Mopar tag on the
>>>> case
>>>> says it was originally built in 95.
>>>
>>> what did the paperwork with the reman say ?
>>
>>"Dexron III / ATF+3" That's why it concerned me. The date of original
>>manufacture for the transwas 95, an ATF+4 unit, but the rebuilder says
>>otherwise. It's got ATF+4 in it and the upshifts are smooth and kickdowns
>>clean and solid.
>>
>
> With a transmission that age, you could probably use ATF +3. What I
> found is that most trans shops don't want to stock different kinds of
> fluid. Most shops in my area ONLY have Dexron III, and they add
> "lubeguard" for Chrysler trannys. I have onyl found one or two shops
> that have "ATF", and they refuse to stock both +3 and +4, so have
> decided to buy ATF +4. Not sure if they buy it in bulk or not.

Gary's the group's resident trans expert, imho, though I believe he's no
longer in the business full time. He's the one that pointed out to me the
symptoms I was having ( second gear limp mode after trans warms up) was
probably due to my son's use of Dex III / ATF+3 when he had it before giving
it to me.

I'm in Moab, UT . . .that about 4 billion miles from anywhere unless it's
time for Jeep Safari, Fat / Skinny Tire Festivals (bicyclists!!!) or Half
Marathon. The nearest source in miles for ATF+4 is Grand Junction CO (120
miles, one way), unless I order it from SAlt Lake City Mopar dealerships
thru a auto parts store like Car Quest ( $70 / case).

I'm on fixed income due to diasdability and I'm trying to save as much $$$
as I can to pay for that consarn transmission.
>
> My experience is similar to yours! I have a 94GC. THe original rebuild
> had Dexron III + lubeguard in it. It ran "ok" but not great. When I
> recently had the solenoid pack replaced, I had them drop the pan and
> replace the internal filter, and refill with ATF +4.

You may have saved yourself some grief or you may have delayed the
enevitable .. it depends on how long the Dex III was in the transmission. In
my case, there was a total of 1 1/2 quarts added over a 15 month period
while my son had the car. I never had to add any.
>
> My trans now shifts like and absolute dream. Smoother than ever. No
> more "thump" when dropping into low gear while slowing to a stop. All
> running perfectly. From my experience, you can't go wrong with ATF +4.
> How expensive is it really when compared with the cost of pre-mature
> transmission failure???

Gee, for me, it's very expensive either way.

To be honest, I miss the solid shifts my 79 D-150 had ( 318, 727, 3.55:1)
because the Lebaron is still on the learning curve. Around town, normal
driving I can't feel the 1-2, 2-3 shifts and it doesn't hit OD / lockup
until 40 or better. If I give it pretty good kick off the line then I feel
the shifts.
>
>>>
>>>> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >> The only other problem I have heard of in the late 90s was that
>>>> >> there
>>>> >> is a main pin inside which can wear and come loose. The car will run
>>>> >> fine until the pin completely falls out. If this happens at highway
>>>> >> speeds, then the force of the pin will cause it to blast through the
>>>> >> side of the transmission casing. This is a VERY expensive repair.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I do not know if it is possible for the trans shop to inspect this
>>>> >> pin
>>>> >> when the pan is dropped, but if it is possible, then you might want
>>>> >> to
>>>> >> have it checked.
>>>> >
>>>> > nope; unless they take the differential cover off
>>>> >
>>>> > usually caused by spinning one wheel
>>>> >
>>>> > if on snowy / icy pavement, do NOT allow wheels to start spinning
>>>> >
>>>> > when they 'catch', it will shear off the 'underdrive hub'
>>>>
>>>> Is this something my car can have trouble with? I don't spin tires much
>>>> anymore, but is it something I should avoid at all costs?
>>>
>>> yes
>>
>>I was afraid you'd say that. Darn. My wife has decided to start driving
>>again so I'll have to teach her to avoid tire spin.
>>>
>>>> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I have a 94 GC with that trans. When mine was rebuilt, a special
>>>> >> bracket was installed which absolutely prevents this from happening.
>>>> >> The pin may come lose and rattle, but it is NOT possible for it to
>>>> >> cause any significant damage as reported above. DC knows full well
>>>> >> of
>>>> >> the problem, and is NOT prepared to assist customers unless the van
>>>> >> is
>>>> >> fairly new, and within some mileage limit (110,000 kms I think).
>>>> >> After
>>>> >> that, you are on your own.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> The 3.3 engine is a total work horse. Periodically check the belt
>>>> >> tensioner. With mine, the bearing for the tensioning wheel was
>>>> >> starting to go, and squeeking quite loudly. That was around 165,000
>>>> >> kms. Replacing the tensioner is a fairly inexpensive repair.
>>>> >> Probably
>>>> >> cheaper than a tow! If the tensioner fails, you WILL be stranded and
>>>> >> need a tow.
>>>> >
>>>> > you need a 15 mm deep socket, 6" extension, swivel, and long
>>>> > extension
>>>> >
>>>> > go at it from underneath
>>>> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Have the front end checked periodically. One fellow locally had ball
>>>> >> joints wear out prematurely which caused him a lot of grief. I have
>>>> >> had mine regularly inspected, and have yet to come even close to
>>>> >> replacing them - so I think this guy was just unlucky. In any case,
>>>> >> better safe than sorry.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Other than that, enjoy the ride! I love my mini-van. It holds all my
>>>> >> kids, all our stuff, has power to spare, and - touch wood - has
>>>> >> never
>>>> >> left me stranded.
>>>> >
>>>> > when descending steep grades, put selector in '3'
>>>> >
>>>> > this locks torque converter and provides engine braking
>>>>
>>>> I wish I had this kind of control with my Lebaron. The detents on the
>>>> transmission shift shaft figure out to be the same as for the vans, but
>>> the
>>>> shifter inside has only P-R-N-D-3-1 positions."3" is a "sport" mode
>>>> that
>>>> won't shift into direct until over 50 mph.
>>>
>>> 3 IS 'direct'
>>>
>>> just use '3' when descending long grades and save your brakes
>>
>>My concern was for when I tow a small boat trailer in these mountains or a
>>1/2 ton trailer load of rubbish out to the transfer station
>>
>>Thanks.
>>
>>Budd
>>
>
> Even though the torque converter is "locked in" to the mechanical
> system, this just makes it perform like the trannys did in the "old
> days" before the lock-out torque converter. There will be SOME
> breaking, but it will be minimal. Automatic tranmissions are NOT
> designed to provide engine braking like a manual tranmission is.

Excuse me, but this is not my first car, nor is it my first automatic. 727 /
904 transmissions can be manually shifted to lower gears and do a creedible
job of retarding on hills AS LONG AS YOU USE YOUR HEAD.
>
> I agree with the advice though. "3" is the appropriate slection for
> towing anything through mountains. It will keep the RPMs up slightly
> and give you the torque you need. It will also prevent needless
> shifting of the trans under heavy load.

And it also shifts up more harshly and stays in lower gears too long for
economy. Have you looked at gas prices lately? Currently $2.35 / gal and
when tourist season hits $3 is not impossible here in Moab.
>
> The plain fact is that putting load on the A604 transmission is going
> to shorten its service life, period. As refined as the design is now,
> it still sucks when compared to the old tranmissions that were
> tricked-out with a "shift kit". So much for progress and improvement.

Agreed but since my son got the truck in exchange for the Lebaron, I have to
use a trailer until I can find another truck and the money to buy it with.
Being able to lock out OD and the installation of a big trans cooler would
help a bunch. If I could, I'd plug in a trans controller from a Caravan, a
shifter with all shift positions, and a huge trans cooler . . . .I've got
the one from the D-150 out in my storage shed. It's as big as the radiator
on the Lebaron.

Budd


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Thanks all

Dave.


"Dave O" > wrote in message
.. .
> Just bought a new to me van, 3.3L with O/D and 206,000 Km's, and hope to
get
> some information. It's in great shape, no rust, runs well and gives no
hint
> to any engine/drivability issues at all. My question: Is there anything
> that is relatively common to this type of van that I should know about,
any
> major problems, or recalls that I should check in to? Any replies will be
> appreciated,
>
> Dave
>
>

"Budd Cochran" <mr-d150@preciscom SPAM.net> wrote in message
om...
<snip>

> I wish I had this kind of control with my Lebaron. The detents on the
> transmission shift shaft figure out to be the same as for the vans, but
> the shifter inside has only P-R-N-D-3-1 positions."3" is a "sport" mode
> that won't shift into direct until over 50 mph..

I always thought this mode was for towing. (I know, I laugh everytime I
consider towing with the 41te tranny).

As has been said in the thread many times, take care of that transmission. I
have an AWD '94 grand caravan that we've had for 4 years.... and it has had
3 transmissions in it.... and it is sitting right now with a bad
transmission.

I also have a 1990 with the a-604 ultradrive (now called the 41te). It has
developed the same screaming whine and would be sitting as well if I hadn't
only paid $100 for it. <G>

Be gentle on the transmission or you'll be sorry.



>
> Budd
>
> *** Free account sponsored by SecureIX.com ***
> *** Encrypt your Internet usage with a free VPN account from
> http://www.SecureIX.com ***

NewMan wrote:

> Even though the torque converter is "locked in" to the mechanical
> system, this just makes it perform like the trannys did in the "old
> days" before the lock-out torque converter. There will be SOME
> breaking, but it will be minimal. Automatic tranmissions are NOT
> designed to provide engine braking like a manual tranmission is.

Wrong. Have you ever read your owner's manual?


Matt

"Olaf" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Budd Cochran" <mr-d150@preciscom SPAM.net> wrote in message
> om...
> <snip>
>
>> I wish I had this kind of control with my Lebaron. The detents on the
>> transmission shift shaft figure out to be the same as for the vans, but
>> the shifter inside has only P-R-N-D-3-1 positions."3" is a "sport" mode
>> that won't shift into direct until over 50 mph..
>
> I always thought this mode was for towing. (I know, I laugh everytime I
> consider towing with the 41te tranny).

Actually, the owner's manual says to use "D" as you normally would.
>
> As has been said in the thread many times, take care of that transmission.
> I have an AWD '94 grand caravan that we've had for 4 years.... and it has
> had 3 transmissions in it.... and it is sitting right now with a bad
> transmission.

That's what worries me. My son had the good intention of trying to get me
and his mom a car that would last until . . . .

The other day he told me he wished he'd bought the 73 Dart with slant six
and auto that needed some pretty extensive body work instead.
>
> I also have a 1990 with the a-604 ultradrive (now called the 41te). It has
> developed the same screaming whine and would be sitting as well if I
> hadn't only paid $100 for it. <G>

Mine never whined, it would just shift normal until the trans fluid warmed
up, then limp home mode.
>
> Be gentle on the transmission or you'll be sorry.

Yeah, I know. I think I need to find another old Dart/Valiant . . . .

Budd


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"NewMan" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 06:46:11 -0700, "Budd Cochran" <mr-d150@preciscom
> SPAM.net> wrote:
> >
>
> Even though the torque converter is "locked in" to the mechanical
> system, this just makes it perform like the trannys did in the "old
> days" before the lock-out torque converter. There will be SOME
> breaking, but it will be minimal. Automatic tranmissions are NOT
> designed to provide engine braking like a manual tranmission is.

oh, give me a freaking break !

the A604 uses NO over-running clutches

therefore, with the converter locked, it's like a manual


>
> I agree with the advice though. "3" is the appropriate slection for
> towing anything through mountains. It will keep the RPMs up slightly
> and give you the torque you need. It will also prevent needless
> shifting of the trans under heavy load.

the advice was SPECIFICALLY about descending grades

>
> The plain fact is that putting load on the A604 transmission is going
> to shorten its service life, period. As refined as the design is now,
> it still sucks when compared to the old tranmissions that were
> tricked-out with a "shift kit". So much for progress and improvement.
>
> >
> >*** Free account sponsored by SecureIX.com ***
> >*** Encrypt your Internet usage with a free VPN account from
http://www.SecureIX.com ***
>

"Gary Glaenzer" > wrote in message
news:9hnQf.47$Jz4.21@trnddc08...
>
> "NewMan" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 06:46:11 -0700, "Budd Cochran" <mr-d150@preciscom
>> SPAM.net> wrote:
>> >
>>
>> Even though the torque converter is "locked in" to the mechanical
>> system, this just makes it perform like the trannys did in the "old
>> days" before the lock-out torque converter. There will be SOME
>> breaking, but it will be minimal. Automatic tranmissions are NOT
>> designed to provide engine braking like a manual tranmission is.
>
> oh, give me a freaking break !
>
> the A604 uses NO over-running clutches
>
> therefore, with the converter locked, it's like a manual

I agree, however when the accellerator is released the tcc disengages.



<snip>

"Budd Cochran" <mr-d150@preciscom SPAM.net> wrote in message
om...
>
> "Olaf" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Budd Cochran" <mr-d150@preciscom SPAM.net> wrote in message
>> om...
>> <snip>
>>
>>> I wish I had this kind of control with my Lebaron. The detents on the
>>> transmission shift shaft figure out to be the same as for the vans, but
>>> the shifter inside has only P-R-N-D-3-1 positions."3" is a "sport" mode
>>> that won't shift into direct until over 50 mph..
>>
>> I always thought this mode was for towing. (I know, I laugh everytime I
>> consider towing with the 41te tranny).
>
> Actually, the owner's manual says to use "D" as you normally would.

I think different vans have different settings. I have had 2 vans with the
a-604. On my 1994 AWD van there is also an 'overdrive off' button on the
dash, which keeps the same shift points as when you're in overdrive except
for not shifting to overdrive. But if you shift to drive it changes the
shift points rather drastically. It hangs in the lower gears for much
longer, like waiting to shift to third until about 40 mph, and it would
downshift at about 30 when coming to a stop (quite noticable).


In my latest $100 beater (1990 grand caravan with 3.3 and OD transmission)
it has 'normal' shift points when in overdrive, but it switches to the heavy
duty shift points when it's in drive. It certainly seems to be designed for
more tough-going conditions (like heavy snow or towing).

I hope they've changed on the newer vans. These transmissions are laughable
anyway, super heavy duty shift points is kind of inviting trouble. It makes
folks think the transmissin is designed well enough for towing.


>>
>> As has been said in the thread many times, take care of that
>> transmission. I have an AWD '94 grand caravan that we've had for 4
>> years.... and it has had 3 transmissions in it.... and it is sitting
>> right now with a bad transmission.
>
> That's what worries me. My son had the good intention of trying to get me
> and his mom a car that would last until . . . .
>
> The other day he told me he wished he'd bought the 73 Dart with slant six
> and auto that needed some pretty extensive body work instead.
>>
>> I also have a 1990 with the a-604 ultradrive (now called the 41te). It
>> has developed the same screaming whine and would be sitting as well if I
>> hadn't only paid $100 for it. <G>
>
> Mine never whined, it would just shift normal until the trans fluid warmed
> up, then limp home mode.
>>
>> Be gentle on the transmission or you'll be sorry.
>
> Yeah, I know. I think I need to find another old Dart/Valiant . . . .

Now you're talkin'.

:-D


>
> Budd
>
> *** Free account sponsored by SecureIX.com ***
> *** Encrypt your Internet usage with a free VPN account from
> http://www.SecureIX.com ***

not in '3', it doesn't


"Olaf" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Gary Glaenzer" > wrote in message
> news:9hnQf.47$Jz4.21@trnddc08...
> >
> > "NewMan" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 06:46:11 -0700, "Budd Cochran" <mr-d150@preciscom
> >> SPAM.net> wrote:
> >> >
> >>
> >> Even though the torque converter is "locked in" to the mechanical
> >> system, this just makes it perform like the trannys did in the "old
> >> days" before the lock-out torque converter. There will be SOME
> >> breaking, but it will be minimal. Automatic tranmissions are NOT
> >> designed to provide engine braking like a manual tranmission is.
> >
> > oh, give me a freaking break !
> >
> > the A604 uses NO over-running clutches
> >
> > therefore, with the converter locked, it's like a manual
>
> I agree, however when the accellerator is released the tcc disengages.
>
>
>
> <snip>
>
>

I'll have to try that. :-) Although none of the CV I've driven have had a 3
position. Must be on the new ones? Mine all had and have P R N OD D L, IIRC


"Gary Glaenzer" > wrote in message
news:7Z2Rf.21765$_f4.189@trnddc03...
> not in '3', it doesn't
>
>
> "Olaf" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Gary Glaenzer" > wrote in message
>> news:9hnQf.47$Jz4.21@trnddc08...
>> >
>> > "NewMan" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >> On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 06:46:11 -0700, "Budd Cochran" <mr-d150@preciscom
>> >> SPAM.net> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Even though the torque converter is "locked in" to the mechanical
>> >> system, this just makes it perform like the trannys did in the "old
>> >> days" before the lock-out torque converter. There will be SOME
>> >> breaking, but it will be minimal. Automatic tranmissions are NOT
>> >> designed to provide engine braking like a manual tranmission is.
>> >
>> > oh, give me a freaking break !
>> >
>> > the A604 uses NO over-running clutches
>> >
>> > therefore, with the converter locked, it's like a manual
>>
>> I agree, however when the accellerator is released the tcc disengages.
>>
>>
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>
>
>