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External pump push/pull?



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 6th 04, 03:09 PM
gribbee
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Default External pump push/pull?

I've been using submersible pumps because there is no easy way to hide an
external pump around my pond. I do have a wooded slope 20-30 feet away from
the edge of the pond, so I decided to snake a stream down the slope with a
couple of small vf pools along the way. My plan was to bury flex pvc from
the pond to the external pump hidden behind a bush next to the top pool and
run the electric back to a shed rather than near the pond.

So I ordered a Sequence Cimmaron. When I got it in and started reading the
documentation, it says to push water instead of pulling. In other words,
put the pump by the pond and not hidden up the hill.

Is my plan screwed? If I set it up as I planned, sucking water through
about 50' of 2" pvc and up about 4', am I going to have problems? Would it
make a significant difference if I had the pump in the middle, 25' from the
pond, but before the slope? FWIW, the pump is rated for a little less than
3000 gph at 4' height.


  #2  
Old March 6th 04, 06:14 PM
Gale Pearce
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Default External pump push/pull?

3' horizontal is supposed to be equal to 1' vertical when figuring pumping
"head", so 25' horizontal + 4 ' vertical is ~ a 12' head you are dealing
with, as wellas the other 25 ' on the other side of the pump
Gale :~)

If I set it up as I planned, sucking water through
about 50' of 2" pvc and up about 4', am I going to have problems? Would

it
make a significant difference if I had the pump in the middle, 25' from

the
pond, but before the slope? FWIW, the pump is rated for a little less

than
3000 gph at 4' height.




  #3  
Old March 6th 04, 07:46 PM
gribbee
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Posts: n/a
Default External pump push/pull?

"Gale Pearce" wrote in message
...
3' horizontal is supposed to be equal to 1' vertical when figuring pumping
"head", so 25' horizontal + 4 ' vertical is ~ a 12' head you are dealing
with, as wellas the other 25 ' on the other side of the pump
Gale :~)


The chart from sequence has a friction loss of 3 - 6 ft per 100 ft of 2"
pipe at the flow rate for this pump. Is your horizontal/vertical loss an
additional factor?


  #4  
Old March 6th 04, 08:41 PM
Hal
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Posts: n/a
Default External pump push/pull?

On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 15:09:57 GMT, "gribbee"
wrote:

Is my plan screwed? If I set it up as I planned, sucking water through
about 50' of 2" pvc and up about 4', am I going to have problems? Would it
make a significant difference if I had the pump in the middle, 25' from the
pond, but before the slope? FWIW, the pump is rated for a little less than
3000 gph at 4' height.


The idea of pushing water must mean to place the pump below the water
line so it doesn't have to prime itself. Once the flow is started I
don't see how the pump operation could be any different, because the
pump action is the same whether it is above or below the water level.
I'm not familiar with this kind of pump, but you might benefit from a
priming pot.

http://www.azponds.com/leaf%20traps.htm

Regards,

Hal
  #5  
Old March 6th 04, 08:58 PM
gribbee
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Posts: n/a
Default External pump push/pull?

"Hal" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 15:09:57 GMT, "gribbee"
wrote:

Is my plan screwed? If I set it up as I planned, sucking water through
about 50' of 2" pvc and up about 4', am I going to have problems? Would

it
make a significant difference if I had the pump in the middle, 25' from

the
pond, but before the slope? FWIW, the pump is rated for a little less

than
3000 gph at 4' height.


The idea of pushing water must mean to place the pump below the water
line so it doesn't have to prime itself. Once the flow is started I
don't see how the pump operation could be any different, because the
pump action is the same whether it is above or below the water level.
I'm not familiar with this kind of pump, but you might benefit from a
priming pot.

http://www.azponds.com/leaf%20traps.htm

Regards,

Hal


You may be right about the below water level location. Rereading the
'installation hints' for the fifth time, the other statements seem less
absolute than "The pump is designed to push water, not pull it." I'm going
to see if I can put the pump at the bottom of the wooded area and push water
uphill for the second half of the transit.

BTW - I have a priming pot, which I got along with my pump from azponds.com.
The pump is a new sequence 'value' model this month and I think azponds is
the only distributor.


  #6  
Old March 7th 04, 12:30 AM
RichToyBox
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Posts: n/a
Default External pump push/pull?

All pumps are better at pushing water than pulling water. The intake of my
pump is about 15 feet from the pond in a shed, but the water flow is gravity
to the pump. If you look at performance curves for some of the pumps, they
will have a 2 or 3 for lift on the suction side, and a 20 foot lift on the
discharge side.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"gribbee" wrote in message
hlink.net...
I've been using submersible pumps because there is no easy way to hide an
external pump around my pond. I do have a wooded slope 20-30 feet away

from
the edge of the pond, so I decided to snake a stream down the slope with a
couple of small vf pools along the way. My plan was to bury flex pvc from
the pond to the external pump hidden behind a bush next to the top pool

and
run the electric back to a shed rather than near the pond.

So I ordered a Sequence Cimmaron. When I got it in and started reading

the
documentation, it says to push water instead of pulling. In other words,
put the pump by the pond and not hidden up the hill.

Is my plan screwed? If I set it up as I planned, sucking water through
about 50' of 2" pvc and up about 4', am I going to have problems? Would

it
make a significant difference if I had the pump in the middle, 25' from

the
pond, but before the slope? FWIW, the pump is rated for a little less

than
3000 gph at 4' height.




  #7  
Old March 7th 04, 04:47 PM
Gale Pearce
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Posts: n/a
Default External pump push/pull?

The #'s I quoted below came from a "pond construction" book I read a few yrs
ago and I think they were for submersed pumps (don't know if that makes any
difference for "out of pond" pumps) - seeing as how your info is newer and
for the pump you have, I would use it - there may be some one else in this
group that knows for sure - Good luck
Gale :~)

3' horizontal is supposed to be equal to 1' vertical when figuring

pumping
"head", so 25' horizontal + 4 ' vertical is ~ a 12' head you are

dealing
with, as wellas the other 25 ' on the other side of the pump
Gale :~)


The chart from sequence has a friction loss of 3 - 6 ft per 100 ft of 2"
pipe at the flow rate for this pump. Is your horizontal/vertical loss an
additional factor?




  #8  
Old March 7th 04, 05:34 PM
gribbee
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Posts: n/a
Default External pump push/pull?

"Gale Pearce" wrote in message
...
The #'s I quoted below came from a "pond construction" book I read a few

yrs
ago and I think they were for submersed pumps (don't know if that makes

any
difference for "out of pond" pumps) - seeing as how your info is newer and
for the pump you have, I would use it - there may be some one else in this
group that knows for sure - Good luck
Gale :~)


Whew! I was thinking I'd need ANOTHER new pump. Actually, the chart
indicates friction loss in that range for 1" pipe and high gph, so buying 2"
pipe may have saved me.


 




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