Poll please - Fish DOA or in a few weeks.

Continuing the topic of the likelihood of newly introduced GF or Koi dying
within the first year. Whilst I understand the desirability of having a 100
gallon QT tanks, heaters keeping them for a year in these tanks and
virtually turning your small garden into a fish importers quarantine
industrial estate (I exaggerate for effect - but you know what I mean). Its
all very well to buy, sterilise, fill, heat, keep a watch on, maintain,
fence have the fish die anyway, etc etc, but I have got a proper job and
house to rebuild to keep me busy, and I don't have any room for tanks.

The cost and effort put into running the QT tanks needs to be assessed
against the likely hood of the newly introduced fish dying, or more
worrying, existing stocks dying.

The POLL:-

Just how many fish have people in this newsgroup bought, and have died in
the first, say, year? Both with and without using quarentee procedures.
And how many times have existing stocks been killed of by diseases carried
by the newcomer?

I'll start it off. I have added 10 Koi, in 5 batches over 5 years, 8 GF in
4 batches over 5 years, 2 grass carp, 2 golden tench. All added as tiddlers.
The grass carp are 12 inches long, and the Koi range from 12 to 16 inches
long.

Deaths: first occurrence this year, 1 out of 1 > 3 inch tiddler Koi added.
seemed very happy for the first 3 weeks then poof! without any warning.
Purchased in the autumn.

1 off 16 inch Koi died out of the blue, over a year after the addition of
any newcomer.

I suspect that this is very typical of pond life and death, whether
quarantining or not - but lets find out. Over to you.

I also lost 2 starlets (dwarf stergeon) but a fish importer told me that
they are not suitable for ponds, they like rivers.

[axemanchris]

> wrote in message news:41741efc@padme....
> Continuing the topic of the likelihood of newly introduced GF or Koi dying
> within the first year. Whilst I understand the desirability of having a
100
> gallon QT tanks, heaters keeping them for a year in these tanks and
> virtually turning your small garden into a fish importers quarantine
> industrial estate (I exaggerate for effect - but you know what I mean).
Its
> all very well to buy, sterilise, fill, heat, keep a watch on, maintain,
> fence have the fish die anyway, etc etc, but I have got a proper job and
> house to rebuild to keep me busy, and I don't have any room for tanks.
>
> The cost and effort put into running the QT tanks needs to be assessed
> against the likely hood of the newly introduced fish dying, or more
> worrying, existing stocks dying.
>
> The POLL:-
>
> Just how many fish have people in this newsgroup bought, and have died in
> the first, say, year? Both with and without using quarentee procedures.
> And how many times have existing stocks been killed of by diseases carried
> by the newcomer?
>
> I'll start it off. I have added 10 Koi, in 5 batches over 5 years, 8 GF
in
> 4 batches over 5 years, 2 grass carp, 2 golden tench. All added as
tiddlers.
> The grass carp are 12 inches long, and the Koi range from 12 to 16 inches
> long.
>
> Deaths: first occurrence this year, 1 out of 1 > 3 inch tiddler Koi
added.
> seemed very happy for the first 3 weeks then poof! without any warning.
> Purchased in the autumn.
>
> 1 off 16 inch Koi died out of the blue, over a year after the addition of
> any newcomer.
>
> I suspect that this is very typical of pond life and death, whether
> quarantining or not - but lets find out. Over to you.
>
> I also lost 2 starlets (dwarf stergeon) but a fish importer told me that
> they are not suitable for ponds, they like rivers.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

I purchased 3 goldfish this summer. They came from the feeder tanks at
Petsmart. No room to quarantine, so they went straight into the pond. They
& all the other goldfish (about 7 or 8) are all fine. I've done this on
several occasions with no ill effect. Yes, I realize I'm probably playing
Russian roulette, but that's the way it has to be right now.

Jacqui

[Bill Stock]

> wrote in message news:41741efc@padme....
> Continuing the topic of the likelihood of newly introduced GF or Koi dying
> within the first year. Whilst I understand the desirability of having a
100
> gallon QT tanks, heaters keeping them for a year in these tanks and
> virtually turning your small garden into a fish importers quarantine
> industrial estate (I exaggerate for effect - but you know what I mean).
Its
> all very well to buy, sterilise, fill, heat, keep a watch on, maintain,
> fence have the fish die anyway, etc etc, but I have got a proper job and
> house to rebuild to keep me busy, and I don't have any room for tanks.
>
> The cost and effort put into running the QT tanks needs to be assessed
> against the likely hood of the newly introduced fish dying, or more
> worrying, existing stocks dying.
>
> The POLL:-
>
> Just how many fish have people in this newsgroup bought, and have died in
> the first, say, year? Both with and without using quarentee procedures.
> And how many times have existing stocks been killed of by diseases carried
> by the newcomer?
>
> I'll start it off. I have added 10 Koi, in 5 batches over 5 years, 8 GF
in
> 4 batches over 5 years, 2 grass carp, 2 golden tench. All added as
tiddlers.
> The grass carp are 12 inches long, and the Koi range from 12 to 16 inches
> long.
>
> Deaths: first occurrence this year, 1 out of 1 > 3 inch tiddler Koi
added.
> seemed very happy for the first 3 weeks then poof! without any warning.
> Purchased in the autumn.
>
> 1 off 16 inch Koi died out of the blue, over a year after the addition of
> any newcomer.
>
> I suspect that this is very typical of pond life and death, whether
> quarantining or not - but lets find out. Over to you.
>
> I also lost 2 starlets (dwarf stergeon) but a fish importer told me that
> they are not suitable for ponds, they like rivers.
>

Bought 6 $3 Goldfish from Walmart last year.
Something ate 3. Raccoons?
Installed FIDO fence.
Bought three more WalMart fish.
Two of the new fish died.
Heron ate our 'prize' GF.
Brought 3 remaining fish + two tiny babies inside.
They're still inside.

Bought 10 $0.22 feeders from the LFS this year.
One died. No more critter problems, they have great respect for the electric
fence.
These guys did not grow as much as their 'expensive' cousins, but seem OK.
They're staying outside this winter, so I expect more losses.

[George]

> wrote in message news:41741efc@padme....
> Continuing the topic of the likelihood of newly introduced GF or Koi dying
> within the first year. Whilst I understand the desirability of having a 100
> gallon QT tanks, heaters keeping them for a year in these tanks and virtually
> turning your small garden into a fish importers quarantine industrial estate
> (I exaggerate for effect - but you know what I mean). Its all very well to
> buy, sterilise, fill, heat, keep a watch on, maintain, fence have the fish die
> anyway, etc etc, but I have got a proper job and house to rebuild to keep me
> busy, and I don't have any room for tanks.
>
> The cost and effort put into running the QT tanks needs to be assessed against
> the likely hood of the newly introduced fish dying, or more worrying, existing
> stocks dying.
>
> The POLL:-
>
> Just how many fish have people in this newsgroup bought, and have died in the
> first, say, year? Both with and without using quarentee procedures. And how
> many times have existing stocks been killed of by diseases carried by the
> newcomer?

Year one: Bought six Koi, one adult comet, two shubukans, one white and
gold/red nearly adult goldfish, and one 14" albino channel catfish. Bought 12
feeder goldfish (comets) for the catfish. He ate four. The remaining ones grew
up. Lost one koi to an "accidental feeding by the albino cat - I threw so food
in, and both went for the same pellet at the same time: The koi lost. I lost
one small koi during the winter due to reasons unknown (he simply disappeared,
but might have become catfish food).

Year two - this year: Bought two koi, lost one (catfish?). The other is doing
fine. One of the feeder goldfish that I bought last year jumped out, but I
didn't find him until much too late. Adult goldfish and white and gold goldfish
bred, with 8 finderlings surviving (one of which is gold and white, and another
is solid white, while the rest are gold/red). All are healthy and have grown
significantly since spring.

Lost no fish due to disease. The only fish I've had that ever got sick was the
catfish, and he's been sick twice (once last year in August, and once this year
ion August - coincidence?), but albinos are more susceptible to disease than
most other fish. He's fine now, and is at least 28" long, and weighs about 8-9
lbs.

Pond - 1,500 gallon, 12'x5'x45" deep.

[Ka30P]

Waaaaaay back when the pond was new I remember losing one fish. A rosie red.
From PetsMart The very next day.. Put all sorts of fish in from various sources
over the years, store, jj's, two ponds being dismantled, one batch that came
via airplane. Not one loss. Always right into the pond.
I have lost fish, due to winter problems and getting caught by the weather,
having the pond fireeze over and not being able to get to it for a while. All
mine own fault. And then there was the Kingfisher. And the bullfrogs. And the
labradors used to conduct vice raids on spawning fish. Oh, and one to the
router rooter.
But saying all that I'd still recommend jj's or Ingrid's quarantine maneuvers
out of an abundance of caution when posting advice on an open message board.I
guess it is the litigious days we live in, everybody naturally wants to cover
all bases.

kathy :-)
3000 gallon pond
800 gallon frog bog
home of the watergardening labradors
zone 7 SE WA state

[Nedra]

I haven't purchased one fish since 1995! They all lived and have spawned.
Went from having 7 Koi to 13. I don't shop for Koi - never did.
My lps lady got me started on Koi and that was in 1995.
I don't believe in tempting fate. Needless to say I have never quarantined
a fish.

Nedra in Missouri
zone 6

"Ka30P" > wrote in message
...
> Waaaaaay back when the pond was new I remember losing one fish. A rosie
red.
> From PetsMart The very next day.. Put all sorts of fish in from various
sources
> over the years, store, jj's, two ponds being dismantled, one batch that
came
> via airplane. Not one loss. Always right into the pond.
> I have lost fish, due to winter problems and getting caught by the
weather,
> having the pond fireeze over and not being able to get to it for a while.
All
> mine own fault. And then there was the Kingfisher. And the bullfrogs. And
the
> labradors used to conduct vice raids on spawning fish. Oh, and one to the
> router rooter.
> But saying all that I'd still recommend jj's or Ingrid's quarantine
maneuvers
> out of an abundance of caution when posting advice on an open message
board.I
> guess it is the litigious days we live in, everybody naturally wants to
cover
> all bases.
>
> kathy :-)
> 3000 gallon pond
> 800 gallon frog bog
> home of the watergardening labradors
> zone 7 SE WA state

[Crashj]

On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 20:46:53 +0100, >
wrote:
<>
>Just how many fish have people in this newsgroup bought, and have died in
>the first, say, year?

This is a new pond, and my first, but I have been an aquarium keeper
for years.
Fish into the pond this year were four rosy minnow feeders of which
two were found dead floating a few days later. The other two have
spawned and now I have hundreds. This is about 25% or the total
schools that were there at one time.
Three feeder goldfish dumped in about the same time have all survived
and thrive.
Five inch goldfish, previously held captive in a tank with and Oscar,
was abruptly freed one morning when a large pleco was surprised
chewing on its face. It is very pretty, mostly white, and has survived
the constant attention of the smaller goldfish very well.
Two small pl*cs went in a couple of weeks ago, one was seen today,
sunning itself, did not move all day. I have not seen the other all
week.
The temp today was down to 48*F water, 55*F air, clear, sunny, mild
breeze. I have turned the fountain off, but the fish bubbler and
veggie waterfall are still running.

--
Crashj

[RichToyBox]

This year was the first year that I have had facilities to do quarantine, a
nice 1000 gallon show tank and 1/2 cubic foot bead filter. I always worried
that the koi, ranging in size from 8 or 10 inches, to over 26 inches would
overwhelm the 150 gallon stock tank. I have been very particular about who
and where I get fish. The simple parasites are easily treated in the pond
or in quarantine, but it is cheaper to treat less water. The biggest fear
now is the KHV and SVC viruses. These will kill koi, and very rapidly, and
in large numbers. The quarantine facility need to have the ability to go
through temperature swings to activate the viruses, or they can be missed in
a normal quarantine. That may mean the quarantine needs to last well into
cool weather where it can go cold, and then with heaters, be warmed back up,
or allowed to go for the entire year to see cool water and warm water.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html

> wrote in message news:41741efc@padme....
> Continuing the topic of the likelihood of newly introduced GF or Koi dying
> within the first year. Whilst I understand the desirability of having a
> 100 gallon QT tanks, heaters keeping them for a year in these tanks and
> virtually turning your small garden into a fish importers quarantine
> industrial estate (I exaggerate for effect - but you know what I mean).
> Its all very well to buy, sterilise, fill, heat, keep a watch on,
> maintain, fence have the fish die anyway, etc etc, but I have got a proper
> job and house to rebuild to keep me busy, and I don't have any room for
> tanks.
>
> The cost and effort put into running the QT tanks needs to be assessed
> against the likely hood of the newly introduced fish dying, or more
> worrying, existing stocks dying.
>
> The POLL:-
>
> Just how many fish have people in this newsgroup bought, and have died in
> the first, say, year? Both with and without using quarentee procedures.
> And how many times have existing stocks been killed of by diseases carried
> by the newcomer?
>
> I'll start it off. I have added 10 Koi, in 5 batches over 5 years, 8 GF
> in 4 batches over 5 years, 2 grass carp, 2 golden tench. All added as
> tiddlers. The grass carp are 12 inches long, and the Koi range from 12 to
> 16 inches long.
>
> Deaths: first occurrence this year, 1 out of 1 > 3 inch tiddler Koi
> added. seemed very happy for the first 3 weeks then poof! without any
> warning. Purchased in the autumn.
>
> 1 off 16 inch Koi died out of the blue, over a year after the addition of
> any newcomer.
>
> I suspect that this is very typical of pond life and death, whether
> quarantining or not - but lets find out. Over to you.
>
> I also lost 2 starlets (dwarf stergeon) but a fish importer told me that
> they are not suitable for ponds, they like rivers.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[~ jan JJsPond.us]

>On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 20:46:53 +0100, > wrote:

>The POLL:-
>
>Just how many fish have people in this newsgroup bought, and have died in
>the first, say, year? Both with and without using quarentee procedures.
>And how many times have existing stocks been killed of by diseases carried
>by the newcomer?

I don't think this poll is going to give you much comfort. Many koi die
within 2 - 6 weeks just from poor management of water quality and than
2ndary infections, and/or parasites that might have come with the koi or
been in the pond, take advantage of the suppressed immune system.

Iows, healthy purchase, koi keeper killed it.

If quarantining doesn't work for you, for whatever reason, I highly suggest
you at least salt dip any new fish before putting them in the pond. Knowing
you run the risk, of infecting the pond with a virus, that salt dipping
can't kill. At which point, you'll deal with it. What the ratio to risk
factor is, I have no idea. ~ jan


~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

[Just Me \Koi\]

Dude,

It's like having sex without condom, maybe the lady will get pregnant, maybe
you get gonorrhea, maybe you get aids, it only has to happen once then it's
too late.

I too use to poopoo Ingrid for her constant advice on quarantine, until
disaster struck twice ( Now I confess)

For many months I had grown my Koi, trained them to love me, and then I was
at Wal-Mart and saw this incredible goldfish that looked like Koi. I wanted
it so bad, so when my daughter put the slightest of pressure on me to get
it, deal was done. Got home, floated the bag for a while, and in goes fish.
Lost half of my Koi collection! And I spent a bundle to try and save them,
but them were murdered fish in the hands of "me"

So I swore never to buy fish again, my resistance lasted a few days. Built
new pond in addition to the existing, put in lovely huge Koi, all
quarantined. Dipped in salt before going into the quarantine tank, and
ultimately dipped again before going into the new pond. Not a single death!

Then the greed/impatience in me struck. I saw the most beautiful Showa at a
Koi auction. Bid for it and ultimately over paid. So I got home, and
wanted to see how this new Koi was going to complete my lovely collection of
imported Koi. About 8 of them averaging in cost of $200 per fish. They
were all healthy, until I put in the auction Showa, and then they all died
good, murdered again by me, while my lovely quarantine tank complete with
filter and pump sat nearby unused. But I was too impatient.

I have since collected more Koi, and now swear by my quarantine tank. Thank
you Ingrid, and sorry I didn't listen to you sooner.

--
_______________________________________
"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."

http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino

> wrote in message news:41741efc@padme....
> Continuing the topic of the likelihood of newly introduced GF or Koi dying
> within the first year. Whilst I understand the desirability of having a
100
> gallon QT tanks, heaters keeping them for a year in these tanks and
> virtually turning your small garden into a fish importers quarantine
> industrial estate (I exaggerate for effect - but you know what I mean).
Its
> all very well to buy, sterilise, fill, heat, keep a watch on, maintain,
> fence have the fish die anyway, etc etc, but I have got a proper job and
> house to rebuild to keep me busy, and I don't have any room for tanks.
>
> The cost and effort put into running the QT tanks needs to be assessed
> against the likely hood of the newly introduced fish dying, or more
> worrying, existing stocks dying.
>
> The POLL:-
>
> Just how many fish have people in this newsgroup bought, and have died in
> the first, say, year? Both with and without using quarentee procedures.
> And how many times have existing stocks been killed of by diseases carried
> by the newcomer?
>
> I'll start it off. I have added 10 Koi, in 5 batches over 5 years, 8 GF
in
> 4 batches over 5 years, 2 grass carp, 2 golden tench. All added as
tiddlers.
> The grass carp are 12 inches long, and the Koi range from 12 to 16 inches
> long.
>
> Deaths: first occurrence this year, 1 out of 1 > 3 inch tiddler Koi
added.
> seemed very happy for the first 3 weeks then poof! without any warning.
> Purchased in the autumn.
>
> 1 off 16 inch Koi died out of the blue, over a year after the addition of
> any newcomer.
>
> I suspect that this is very typical of pond life and death, whether
> quarantining or not - but lets find out. Over to you.
>
> I also lost 2 starlets (dwarf stergeon) but a fish importer told me that
> they are not suitable for ponds, they like rivers.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Woooow, just hold it a minute!!! I am not running down Ingrid, I just want
to have a feel from people's experience so that we all can understand the
value of putting in the effort to quarentine. It seems that your experience
was most definately an unfortunate one, and much worse than most taking part
in this poll. It will require a considerable effort and cost for those of
us who haven't already got QT facilities to buy and install them, so its
good discuss the frequency for such catastrophies. Your experience is
certainly a catastrophy, and I'm sure that all of us in the group will
sympathise. Its certainly a lesson to learn. Personllay I can't justfy the
room that would be taken by a 100 gallon tank, but I do have a old aquarium
12x9x18 inches that I could use. But do we really have to keep new fish in
it for year, cycling the temperature from high to low to activate any
viruses?
So how many have used QT measures and get deaths in QT?


Fireball


"Just Me "Koi"" > wrote in message
news:RJ1dd.8249$232.1298@trnddc09...
> Dude,
>
> It's like having sex without condom, maybe the lady will get pregnant,
> maybe
> you get gonorrhea, maybe you get aids, it only has to happen once then
> it's
> too late.
>
> I too use to poopoo Ingrid for her constant advice on quarantine, until
> disaster struck twice ( Now I confess)
>
> For many months I had grown my Koi, trained them to love me, and then I
> was
> at Wal-Mart and saw this incredible goldfish that looked like Koi. I
> wanted
> it so bad, so when my daughter put the slightest of pressure on me to get
> it, deal was done. Got home, floated the bag for a while, and in goes
> fish.
> Lost half of my Koi collection! And I spent a bundle to try and save
> them,
> but them were murdered fish in the hands of "me"
>
> So I swore never to buy fish again, my resistance lasted a few days.
> Built
> new pond in addition to the existing, put in lovely huge Koi, all
> quarantined. Dipped in salt before going into the quarantine tank, and
> ultimately dipped again before going into the new pond. Not a single
> death!
>
> Then the greed/impatience in me struck. I saw the most beautiful Showa at
> a
> Koi auction. Bid for it and ultimately over paid. So I got home, and
> wanted to see how this new Koi was going to complete my lovely collection
> of
> imported Koi. About 8 of them averaging in cost of $200 per fish. They
> were all healthy, until I put in the auction Showa, and then they all died
> good, murdered again by me, while my lovely quarantine tank complete with
> filter and pump sat nearby unused. But I was too impatient.
>
> I have since collected more Koi, and now swear by my quarantine tank.
> Thank
> you Ingrid, and sorry I didn't listen to you sooner.
>
> --
> _______________________________________
> "The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
> like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
> The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."
>
> http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino
>
> > wrote in message news:41741efc@padme....
>> Continuing the topic of the likelihood of newly introduced GF or Koi
>> dying
>> within the first year. Whilst I understand the desirability of having a
> 100
>> gallon QT tanks, heaters keeping them for a year in these tanks and
>> virtually turning your small garden into a fish importers quarantine
>> industrial estate (I exaggerate for effect - but you know what I mean).
> Its
>> all very well to buy, sterilise, fill, heat, keep a watch on, maintain,
>> fence have the fish die anyway, etc etc, but I have got a proper job and
>> house to rebuild to keep me busy, and I don't have any room for tanks.
>>
>> The cost and effort put into running the QT tanks needs to be assessed
>> against the likely hood of the newly introduced fish dying, or more
>> worrying, existing stocks dying.
>>
>> The POLL:-
>>
>> Just how many fish have people in this newsgroup bought, and have died in
>> the first, say, year? Both with and without using quarentee procedures.
>> And how many times have existing stocks been killed of by diseases
>> carried
>> by the newcomer?
>>
>> I'll start it off. I have added 10 Koi, in 5 batches over 5 years, 8 GF
> in
>> 4 batches over 5 years, 2 grass carp, 2 golden tench. All added as
> tiddlers.
>> The grass carp are 12 inches long, and the Koi range from 12 to 16 inches
>> long.
>>
>> Deaths: first occurrence this year, 1 out of 1 > 3 inch tiddler Koi
> added.
>> seemed very happy for the first 3 weeks then poof! without any warning.
>> Purchased in the autumn.
>>
>> 1 off 16 inch Koi died out of the blue, over a year after the addition of
>> any newcomer.
>>
>> I suspect that this is very typical of pond life and death, whether
>> quarantining or not - but lets find out. Over to you.
>>
>> I also lost 2 starlets (dwarf stergeon) but a fish importer told me that
>> they are not suitable for ponds, they like rivers.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

[Ann in Houston]

I couldn't begin to quote numbers, but I would say I have lost just as many
quarantined as otherwise. And, like several others have said, it was surely
my mistakes in doing the quarantine, or in transferring them over, that did
it.

"axemanchris" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> > wrote in message news:41741efc@padme....
> > Continuing the topic of the likelihood of newly introduced GF or Koi
dying
> > within the first year. Whilst I understand the desirability of having a
> 100
> > gallon QT tanks, heaters keeping them for a year in these tanks and
> > virtually turning your small garden into a fish importers quarantine
> > industrial estate (I exaggerate for effect - but you know what I mean).
> Its
> > all very well to buy, sterilise, fill, heat, keep a watch on, maintain,
> > fence have the fish die anyway, etc etc, but I have got a proper job and
> > house to rebuild to keep me busy, and I don't have any room for tanks.
> >
> > The cost and effort put into running the QT tanks needs to be assessed
> > against the likely hood of the newly introduced fish dying, or more
> > worrying, existing stocks dying.
> >
> > The POLL:-
> >
> > Just how many fish have people in this newsgroup bought, and have died
in
> > the first, say, year? Both with and without using quarentee
procedures.
> > And how many times have existing stocks been killed of by diseases
carried
> > by the newcomer?
> >
> > I'll start it off. I have added 10 Koi, in 5 batches over 5 years, 8
GF
> in
> > 4 batches over 5 years, 2 grass carp, 2 golden tench. All added as
> tiddlers.
> > The grass carp are 12 inches long, and the Koi range from 12 to 16
inches
> > long.
> >
> > Deaths: first occurrence this year, 1 out of 1 > 3 inch tiddler Koi
> added.
> > seemed very happy for the first 3 weeks then poof! without any warning.
> > Purchased in the autumn.
> >
> > 1 off 16 inch Koi died out of the blue, over a year after the addition
of
> > any newcomer.
> >
> > I suspect that this is very typical of pond life and death, whether
> > quarantining or not - but lets find out. Over to you.
> >
> > I also lost 2 starlets (dwarf stergeon) but a fish importer told me that
> > they are not suitable for ponds, they like rivers.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> I purchased 3 goldfish this summer. They came from the feeder tanks at
> Petsmart. No room to quarantine, so they went straight into the pond.
They
> & all the other goldfish (about 7 or 8) are all fine. I've done this on
> several occasions with no ill effect. Yes, I realize I'm probably playing
> Russian roulette, but that's the way it has to be right now.
>
> Jacqui
>
>

[Just Me \Koi\]

I think we both missed each other's point. I didn't think you were knocking
Ingrid in anyways. Heck I didn't even know what your experience or thoughts
were in terms of quarantine.

I suspect that my experience I snot unusual, more in line with anyone that
collects expensive Koi, but not smart enough to do QT.

I apologize if my lengthy mail confused the issue, but the bottom line was,
you are risking the life of your existing stock if you introduce new fish
without QT.

--
_______________________________________
"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."

http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino

> wrote in message news:4175616e@padme....
> Woooow, just hold it a minute!!! I am not running down Ingrid, I just
want
> to have a feel from people's experience so that we all can understand the
> value of putting in the effort to quarentine. It seems that your
experience
> was most definately an unfortunate one, and much worse than most taking
part
> in this poll. It will require a considerable effort and cost for those
of
> us who haven't already got QT facilities to buy and install them, so its
> good discuss the frequency for such catastrophies. Your experience is
> certainly a catastrophy, and I'm sure that all of us in the group will
> sympathise. Its certainly a lesson to learn. Personllay I can't justfy
the
> room that would be taken by a 100 gallon tank, but I do have a old
aquarium
> 12x9x18 inches that I could use. But do we really have to keep new fish
in
> it for year, cycling the temperature from high to low to activate any
> viruses?
> So how many have used QT measures and get deaths in QT?
>
>
> Fireball
>
>
> "Just Me "Koi"" > wrote in message
> news:RJ1dd.8249$232.1298@trnddc09...
> > Dude,
> >
> > It's like having sex without condom, maybe the lady will get pregnant,
> > maybe
> > you get gonorrhea, maybe you get aids, it only has to happen once then
> > it's
> > too late.
> >
> > I too use to poopoo Ingrid for her constant advice on quarantine, until
> > disaster struck twice ( Now I confess)
> >
> > For many months I had grown my Koi, trained them to love me, and then I
> > was
> > at Wal-Mart and saw this incredible goldfish that looked like Koi. I
> > wanted
> > it so bad, so when my daughter put the slightest of pressure on me to
get
> > it, deal was done. Got home, floated the bag for a while, and in goes
> > fish.
> > Lost half of my Koi collection! And I spent a bundle to try and save
> > them,
> > but them were murdered fish in the hands of "me"
> >
> > So I swore never to buy fish again, my resistance lasted a few days.
> > Built
> > new pond in addition to the existing, put in lovely huge Koi, all
> > quarantined. Dipped in salt before going into the quarantine tank, and
> > ultimately dipped again before going into the new pond. Not a single
> > death!
> >
> > Then the greed/impatience in me struck. I saw the most beautiful Showa
at
> > a
> > Koi auction. Bid for it and ultimately over paid. So I got home, and
> > wanted to see how this new Koi was going to complete my lovely
collection
> > of
> > imported Koi. About 8 of them averaging in cost of $200 per fish. They
> > were all healthy, until I put in the auction Showa, and then they all
died
> > good, murdered again by me, while my lovely quarantine tank complete
with
> > filter and pump sat nearby unused. But I was too impatient.
> >
> > I have since collected more Koi, and now swear by my quarantine tank.
> > Thank
> > you Ingrid, and sorry I didn't listen to you sooner.
> >
> > --
> > _______________________________________
> > "The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
> > like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
> > The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."
> >
> > http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino
> >
> > > wrote in message news:41741efc@padme....
> >> Continuing the topic of the likelihood of newly introduced GF or Koi
> >> dying
> >> within the first year. Whilst I understand the desirability of having a
> > 100
> >> gallon QT tanks, heaters keeping them for a year in these tanks and
> >> virtually turning your small garden into a fish importers quarantine
> >> industrial estate (I exaggerate for effect - but you know what I mean).
> > Its
> >> all very well to buy, sterilise, fill, heat, keep a watch on, maintain,
> >> fence have the fish die anyway, etc etc, but I have got a proper job
and
> >> house to rebuild to keep me busy, and I don't have any room for tanks.
> >>
> >> The cost and effort put into running the QT tanks needs to be assessed
> >> against the likely hood of the newly introduced fish dying, or more
> >> worrying, existing stocks dying.
> >>
> >> The POLL:-
> >>
> >> Just how many fish have people in this newsgroup bought, and have died
in
> >> the first, say, year? Both with and without using quarentee
procedures.
> >> And how many times have existing stocks been killed of by diseases
> >> carried
> >> by the newcomer?
> >>
> >> I'll start it off. I have added 10 Koi, in 5 batches over 5 years, 8
GF
> > in
> >> 4 batches over 5 years, 2 grass carp, 2 golden tench. All added as
> > tiddlers.
> >> The grass carp are 12 inches long, and the Koi range from 12 to 16
inches
> >> long.
> >>
> >> Deaths: first occurrence this year, 1 out of 1 > 3 inch tiddler Koi
> > added.
> >> seemed very happy for the first 3 weeks then poof! without any warning.
> >> Purchased in the autumn.
> >>
> >> 1 off 16 inch Koi died out of the blue, over a year after the addition
of
> >> any newcomer.
> >>
> >> I suspect that this is very typical of pond life and death, whether
> >> quarantining or not - but lets find out. Over to you.
> >>
> >> I also lost 2 starlets (dwarf stergeon) but a fish importer told me
that
> >> they are not suitable for ponds, they like rivers.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>

[George]

"Just Me "Koi"" > wrote in message
news:Dtjdd.835$qr.718@trnddc05...
>I think we both missed each other's point. I didn't think you were knocking
> Ingrid in anyways. Heck I didn't even know what your experience or thoughts
> were in terms of quarantine.
>
> I suspect that my experience I snot unusual, more in line with anyone that
> collects expensive Koi, but not smart enough to do QT.
>
> I apologize if my lengthy mail confused the issue, but the bottom line was,
> you are risking the life of your existing stock if you introduce new fish
> without QT.
>
> --
> _______________________________________
> "The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
> like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
> The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."

My view on quarantining fish is that you can go without doing it for years and
never have any trouble whatsoever. But it's the one time that you should have
quarantined and didn't that will make you wish you had. Safe bet - quarantine
the fish, especially if you've got a substantial investment in them.

[[email protected]]

Ingrid constantly "carps" about many things...quarantine is just one of them.
I learned the hard way in tanks, so I didnt make the mistake in the pond. I been
carping at my friend Marilyn The Pond Lady and she insists on dumping the new koi
right in and has lost whole ponds full of the best koi. I "carped" to her about
netting I mean especially cause she got a sand hill crane rookery right in the back
of her property and herons drop in all the time. for 20 years no herons. then they
came and wiped a couple of her ponds out.
I been "carping" about air pumps for ponds over winter too and keeping a hole open.
a bunch of koi nosing up to a heater sitting in an ice hole in spring is not "koi
basking in the heat" but an indication of low oxygen levels, especially in spring.
my latest "carp" is closed systems especially tanks. set it up with the fish and
then add NO MORE. dont even shuffle fish from one tank to another. dont know why
but after even a shuffle fish start dying.
Obviously I really dont care if people flame me about my carping (or anything else
for that matter). Ingrid

"Just Me \"Koi\"" > wrote:
>I too use to poopoo Ingrid for her constant advice on quarantine, until
>disaster struck twice ( Now I confess)


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[[email protected]]

not really costly. I got a 150 gallon rubbermaid stock tank... but, there are all
kinds of "kiddy pools" that are collapsible and the one with the PVC frame holds 800
GALLONS!! even better. a simple gravity filter using gravel and polyester batting
cycles almost instantly. bird netting is cheap and so is an air pump. cheap plastic
of any kind and a 200 watt tank heater can bring 100-150 gallon rubbermaid up to the
84oF required. quarantine in a garage or basement is perfect. it really isnt that
big a deal. Ingrid

> wrote:
It will require a considerable effort and cost for those of
>us who haven't already got QT facilities to buy and install them,


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[George]

> wrote in message
...
> not really costly. I got a 150 gallon rubbermaid stock tank... but, there are
> all
> kinds of "kiddy pools" that are collapsible and the one with the PVC frame
> holds 800
> GALLONS!! even better. a simple gravity filter using gravel and polyester
> batting
> cycles almost instantly. bird netting is cheap and so is an air pump. cheap
> plastic
> of any kind and a 200 watt tank heater can bring 100-150 gallon rubbermaid up
> to the
> 84oF required. quarantine in a garage or basement is perfect. it really
> isnt that
> big a deal. Ingrid

I agree 100%. And it might just save your favorite fish.

[Just Me \Koi\]

You know we love and appreciate you, and your carping! So many things I've
learnt from you over the years.

--
_______________________________________
"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."

http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino

> wrote in message
...
> Ingrid constantly "carps" about many things...quarantine is just one of
them.
> I learned the hard way in tanks, so I didnt make the mistake in the pond.
I been
> carping at my friend Marilyn The Pond Lady and she insists on dumping the
new koi
> right in and has lost whole ponds full of the best koi. I "carped" to her
about
> netting I mean especially cause she got a sand hill crane rookery right in
the back
> of her property and herons drop in all the time. for 20 years no herons.
then they
> came and wiped a couple of her ponds out.
> I been "carping" about air pumps for ponds over winter too and keeping a
hole open.
> a bunch of koi nosing up to a heater sitting in an ice hole in spring is
not "koi
> basking in the heat" but an indication of low oxygen levels, especially in
spring.
> my latest "carp" is closed systems especially tanks. set it up with the
fish and
> then add NO MORE. dont even shuffle fish from one tank to another. dont
know why
> but after even a shuffle fish start dying.
> Obviously I really dont care if people flame me about my carping (or
anything else
> for that matter). Ingrid
>
> "Just Me \"Koi\"" > wrote:
> >I too use to poopoo Ingrid for her constant advice on quarantine, until
> >disaster struck twice ( Now I confess)
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
> http://puregold.aquaria.net/
> www.drsolo.com
> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> endorsements or recommendations I make.

Yeah, for me as I have now been able to work a deal with my local Koi
supplier to swap tiddler Koi, or whatever he has got that I fancy, with
lillies that I grow in my pond, the main concern is to not kill my existing
biguns.

I have read the kiddies pool idea in another post, yeah - OK I'll think
about that. What about using a plastic garden water butt as a QT ? Is the
surface area too small? Obviously put an air pump in it, these are about 2
feet in diameter and 3 feet deep. I have a spare one of these. If this was
OK to use,
How long would I need to put the tiddlers in it? And would I need to cycle
the temperature? And what feeding regime should I use. These fish are damn
skinny when they arrive in my local aquaria section of my local garden
centre, oh, my local aquaria centre imports tiddler koi from Malasia and
sells them to other garden centres!

Fireball


"Just Me "Koi"" > wrote in message
news:Dtjdd.835$qr.718@trnddc05...
>I think we both missed each other's point. I didn't think you were
>knocking
> Ingrid in anyways. Heck I didn't even know what your experience or
> thoughts
> were in terms of quarantine.
>
> I suspect that my experience I snot unusual, more in line with anyone that
> collects expensive Koi, but not smart enough to do QT.
>
> I apologize if my lengthy mail confused the issue, but the bottom line
> was,
> you are risking the life of your existing stock if you introduce new fish
> without QT.
>
> --
> _______________________________________
> "The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
> like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
> The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."
>
> http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino
>
> > wrote in message news:4175616e@padme....
>> Woooow, just hold it a minute!!! I am not running down Ingrid, I just
> want
>> to have a feel from people's experience so that we all can understand the
>> value of putting in the effort to quarentine. It seems that your
> experience
>> was most definately an unfortunate one, and much worse than most taking
> part
>> in this poll. It will require a considerable effort and cost for those
> of
>> us who haven't already got QT facilities to buy and install them, so its
>> good discuss the frequency for such catastrophies. Your experience is
>> certainly a catastrophy, and I'm sure that all of us in the group will
>> sympathise. Its certainly a lesson to learn. Personllay I can't justfy
> the
>> room that would be taken by a 100 gallon tank, but I do have a old
> aquarium
>> 12x9x18 inches that I could use. But do we really have to keep new fish
> in
>> it for year, cycling the temperature from high to low to activate any
>> viruses?
>> So how many have used QT measures and get deaths in QT?
>>
>>
>> Fireball
>>
>>
>> "Just Me "Koi"" > wrote in message
>> news:RJ1dd.8249$232.1298@trnddc09...
>> > Dude,
>> >
>> > It's like having sex without condom, maybe the lady will get pregnant,
>> > maybe
>> > you get gonorrhea, maybe you get aids, it only has to happen once then
>> > it's
>> > too late.
>> >
>> > I too use to poopoo Ingrid for her constant advice on quarantine, until
>> > disaster struck twice ( Now I confess)
>> >
>> > For many months I had grown my Koi, trained them to love me, and then I
>> > was
>> > at Wal-Mart and saw this incredible goldfish that looked like Koi. I
>> > wanted
>> > it so bad, so when my daughter put the slightest of pressure on me to
> get
>> > it, deal was done. Got home, floated the bag for a while, and in goes
>> > fish.
>> > Lost half of my Koi collection! And I spent a bundle to try and save
>> > them,
>> > but them were murdered fish in the hands of "me"
>> >
>> > So I swore never to buy fish again, my resistance lasted a few days.
>> > Built
>> > new pond in addition to the existing, put in lovely huge Koi, all
>> > quarantined. Dipped in salt before going into the quarantine tank, and
>> > ultimately dipped again before going into the new pond. Not a single
>> > death!
>> >
>> > Then the greed/impatience in me struck. I saw the most beautiful Showa
> at
>> > a
>> > Koi auction. Bid for it and ultimately over paid. So I got home, and
>> > wanted to see how this new Koi was going to complete my lovely
> collection
>> > of
>> > imported Koi. About 8 of them averaging in cost of $200 per fish.
>> > They
>> > were all healthy, until I put in the auction Showa, and then they all
> died
>> > good, murdered again by me, while my lovely quarantine tank complete
> with
>> > filter and pump sat nearby unused. But I was too impatient.
>> >
>> > I have since collected more Koi, and now swear by my quarantine tank.
>> > Thank
>> > you Ingrid, and sorry I didn't listen to you sooner.
>> >
>> > --
>> > _______________________________________
>> > "The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
>> > like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
>> > The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."
>> >
>> > http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino
>> >
>> > > wrote in message news:41741efc@padme....
>> >> Continuing the topic of the likelihood of newly introduced GF or Koi
>> >> dying
>> >> within the first year. Whilst I understand the desirability of having
>> >> a
>> > 100
>> >> gallon QT tanks, heaters keeping them for a year in these tanks and
>> >> virtually turning your small garden into a fish importers quarantine
>> >> industrial estate (I exaggerate for effect - but you know what I
>> >> mean).
>> > Its
>> >> all very well to buy, sterilise, fill, heat, keep a watch on,
>> >> maintain,
>> >> fence have the fish die anyway, etc etc, but I have got a proper job
> and
>> >> house to rebuild to keep me busy, and I don't have any room for tanks.
>> >>
>> >> The cost and effort put into running the QT tanks needs to be assessed
>> >> against the likely hood of the newly introduced fish dying, or more
>> >> worrying, existing stocks dying.
>> >>
>> >> The POLL:-
>> >>
>> >> Just how many fish have people in this newsgroup bought, and have died
> in
>> >> the first, say, year? Both with and without using quarentee
> procedures.
>> >> And how many times have existing stocks been killed of by diseases
>> >> carried
>> >> by the newcomer?
>> >>
>> >> I'll start it off. I have added 10 Koi, in 5 batches over 5 years, 8
> GF
>> > in
>> >> 4 batches over 5 years, 2 grass carp, 2 golden tench. All added as
>> > tiddlers.
>> >> The grass carp are 12 inches long, and the Koi range from 12 to 16
> inches
>> >> long.
>> >>
>> >> Deaths: first occurrence this year, 1 out of 1 > 3 inch tiddler Koi
>> > added.
>> >> seemed very happy for the first 3 weeks then poof! without any
>> >> warning.
>> >> Purchased in the autumn.
>> >>
>> >> 1 off 16 inch Koi died out of the blue, over a year after the addition
> of
>> >> any newcomer.
>> >>
>> >> I suspect that this is very typical of pond life and death, whether
>> >> quarantining or not - but lets find out. Over to you.
>> >>
>> >> I also lost 2 starlets (dwarf stergeon) but a fish importer told me
> that
>> >> they are not suitable for ponds, they like rivers.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>

[George]

> wrote in message news:417981e6@padme....
> Yeah, for me as I have now been able to work a deal with my local Koi supplier
> to swap tiddler Koi, or whatever he has got that I fancy, with lillies that I
> grow in my pond, the main concern is to not kill my existing biguns.
>
> I have read the kiddies pool idea in another post, yeah - OK I'll think about
> that. What about using a plastic garden water butt as a QT ? Is the surface
> area too small? Obviously put an air pump in it, these are about 2 feet in
> diameter and 3 feet deep. I have a spare one of these. If this was OK to
> use,
> How long would I need to put the tiddlers in it? And would I need to cycle the
> temperature? And what feeding regime should I use. These fish are damn
> skinny when they arrive in my local aquaria section of my local garden centre,
> oh, my local aquaria centre imports tiddler koi from Malasia and sells them to
> other garden centres!
>
> Fireball

Judging from your post, I assume that you are in the UK (never heard of fish fry
being referred to as "tiddlers", but I guess it's just not a term that is
commonly used in the states). I use a 50 gallon tupperware tub for my QT, so
what you are describing should work fine. As far as the length of quarantine is
concerned, I've never had to quarantine store-bought fish for more than two
weeks. Having said that, it depends on the condition of the fish. If you get
them in quarantine, and they appear to be sick or have parasites, then obviously
you are going to have to treat them before you introduce them into the pond (it
is a good practice to treat fish for paracites before introduction, regardless).
In which case, you would want to quarantine them at least one to two weeks
longer than is required for the treatment (just in case). Remember, there are
two reasons to have a QT: 1) To quarantine new arrivals prior to introduction
into your pond; 2) To treat fish that may become sick after they have become
established into the fish community. I hope this helps.

>
> "Just Me "Koi"" > wrote in message
> news:Dtjdd.835$qr.718@trnddc05...
>>I think we both missed each other's point. I didn't think you were knocking
>> Ingrid in anyways. Heck I didn't even know what your experience or thoughts
>> were in terms of quarantine.
>>
>> I suspect that my experience I snot unusual, more in line with anyone that
>> collects expensive Koi, but not smart enough to do QT.
>>
>> I apologize if my lengthy mail confused the issue, but the bottom line was,
>> you are risking the life of your existing stock if you introduce new fish
>> without QT.
>>
>> --
>> _______________________________________
>> "The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
>> like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
>> The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."
>>
>> http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino
>>
>> > wrote in message news:4175616e@padme....
>>> Woooow, just hold it a minute!!! I am not running down Ingrid, I just
>> want
>>> to have a feel from people's experience so that we all can understand the
>>> value of putting in the effort to quarentine. It seems that your
>> experience
>>> was most definately an unfortunate one, and much worse than most taking
>> part
>>> in this poll. It will require a considerable effort and cost for those
>> of
>>> us who haven't already got QT facilities to buy and install them, so its
>>> good discuss the frequency for such catastrophies. Your experience is
>>> certainly a catastrophy, and I'm sure that all of us in the group will
>>> sympathise. Its certainly a lesson to learn. Personllay I can't justfy
>> the
>>> room that would be taken by a 100 gallon tank, but I do have a old
>> aquarium
>>> 12x9x18 inches that I could use. But do we really have to keep new fish
>> in
>>> it for year, cycling the temperature from high to low to activate any
>>> viruses?
>>> So how many have used QT measures and get deaths in QT?
>>>
>>>
>>> Fireball
>>>
>>>
>>> "Just Me "Koi"" > wrote in message
>>> news:RJ1dd.8249$232.1298@trnddc09...
>>> > Dude,
>>> >
>>> > It's like having sex without condom, maybe the lady will get pregnant,
>>> > maybe
>>> > you get gonorrhea, maybe you get aids, it only has to happen once then
>>> > it's
>>> > too late.
>>> >
>>> > I too use to poopoo Ingrid for her constant advice on quarantine, until
>>> > disaster struck twice ( Now I confess)
>>> >
>>> > For many months I had grown my Koi, trained them to love me, and then I
>>> > was
>>> > at Wal-Mart and saw this incredible goldfish that looked like Koi. I
>>> > wanted
>>> > it so bad, so when my daughter put the slightest of pressure on me to
>> get
>>> > it, deal was done. Got home, floated the bag for a while, and in goes
>>> > fish.
>>> > Lost half of my Koi collection! And I spent a bundle to try and save
>>> > them,
>>> > but them were murdered fish in the hands of "me"
>>> >
>>> > So I swore never to buy fish again, my resistance lasted a few days.
>>> > Built
>>> > new pond in addition to the existing, put in lovely huge Koi, all
>>> > quarantined. Dipped in salt before going into the quarantine tank, and
>>> > ultimately dipped again before going into the new pond. Not a single
>>> > death!
>>> >
>>> > Then the greed/impatience in me struck. I saw the most beautiful Showa
>> at
>>> > a
>>> > Koi auction. Bid for it and ultimately over paid. So I got home, and
>>> > wanted to see how this new Koi was going to complete my lovely
>> collection
>>> > of
>>> > imported Koi. About 8 of them averaging in cost of $200 per fish. They
>>> > were all healthy, until I put in the auction Showa, and then they all
>> died
>>> > good, murdered again by me, while my lovely quarantine tank complete
>> with
>>> > filter and pump sat nearby unused. But I was too impatient.
>>> >
>>> > I have since collected more Koi, and now swear by my quarantine tank.
>>> > Thank
>>> > you Ingrid, and sorry I didn't listen to you sooner.
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > _______________________________________
>>> > "The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
>>> > like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
>>> > The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."
>>> >
>>> > http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino
>>> >
>>> > > wrote in message news:41741efc@padme....
>>> >> Continuing the topic of the likelihood of newly introduced GF or Koi
>>> >> dying
>>> >> within the first year. Whilst I understand the desirability of having a
>>> > 100
>>> >> gallon QT tanks, heaters keeping them for a year in these tanks and
>>> >> virtually turning your small garden into a fish importers quarantine
>>> >> industrial estate (I exaggerate for effect - but you know what I mean).
>>> > Its
>>> >> all very well to buy, sterilise, fill, heat, keep a watch on, maintain,
>>> >> fence have the fish die anyway, etc etc, but I have got a proper job
>> and
>>> >> house to rebuild to keep me busy, and I don't have any room for tanks.
>>> >>
>>> >> The cost and effort put into running the QT tanks needs to be assessed
>>> >> against the likely hood of the newly introduced fish dying, or more
>>> >> worrying, existing stocks dying.
>>> >>
>>> >> The POLL:-
>>> >>
>>> >> Just how many fish have people in this newsgroup bought, and have died
>> in
>>> >> the first, say, year? Both with and without using quarentee
>> procedures.
>>> >> And how many times have existing stocks been killed of by diseases
>>> >> carried
>>> >> by the newcomer?
>>> >>
>>> >> I'll start it off. I have added 10 Koi, in 5 batches over 5 years, 8
>> GF
>>> > in
>>> >> 4 batches over 5 years, 2 grass carp, 2 golden tench. All added as
>>> > tiddlers.
>>> >> The grass carp are 12 inches long, and the Koi range from 12 to 16
>> inches
>>> >> long.
>>> >>
>>> >> Deaths: first occurrence this year, 1 out of 1 > 3 inch tiddler Koi
>>> > added.
>>> >> seemed very happy for the first 3 weeks then poof! without any warning.
>>> >> Purchased in the autumn.
>>> >>
>>> >> 1 off 16 inch Koi died out of the blue, over a year after the addition
>> of
>>> >> any newcomer.
>>> >>
>>> >> I suspect that this is very typical of pond life and death, whether
>>> >> quarantining or not - but lets find out. Over to you.
>>> >>
>>> >> I also lost 2 starlets (dwarf stergeon) but a fish importer told me
>> that
>>> >> they are not suitable for ponds, they like rivers.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

[RichToyBox]

Until the last couple of years, a quarantine of 2 or 3 weeks was considered
plenty long, and gave you an opportunity to verify the lack of parasites, or
to treat the parasites in much smaller water volumes, which reduced the cost
of treatment. KHV and SVC have shown up in virtually every country, and
will kill koi very quickly, and in mass numbers. One activates at between
60 and 70 degrees F and the other at around 80F. If the quarantine does not
cycle from about the 50's to the mid 80's, then you may introduce the virus
and not know for 6 or 8 months, and then lose all of your fish.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html

> wrote in message news:417981e6@padme....
> How long would I need to put the tiddlers in it? And would I need to cycle
> the temperature? > Fireball

[[email protected]]

yes, with aeration that should be fine. be sure to put a net over the top. I put
elastic (fabric store type stuff used when sewing clothes) around the top of mine put
the net under the elastic, works great.
the "butt" is around 30 gallons? it is a bit small, but with lots of water changes
should be fine.
feed normally, not too much and high quality stuff. drop in some oxygenators.
yeah, it is a really good idea after the first couple of weeks if no problem shows up
to drop plastic over it and run the temp up to 84oF for a couple days with a
submersible heater. then wait a couple more weeks to see if anything shows up.
I think it is SV where fish can be carriers. nasty stuff.
Ingrid

> wrote:
What about using a plastic garden water butt as a QT ? Is the
>surface area too small? Obviously put an air pump in it, these are about 2
>feet in diameter and 3 feet deep. I have a spare one of these. If this was
>OK to use,
>How long would I need to put the tiddlers in it? And would I need to cycle
>the temperature? And what feeding regime should I use. These fish are damn
>skinny when they arrive in my local aquaria section of my local garden
>centre, oh, my local aquaria centre imports tiddler koi from Malasia and
>sells them to other garden centres!
>


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