Poll please - Fish DOA or in a few weeks.

Continuing the topic of the likelihood of newly introduced GF or Koi dying
within the first year. Whilst I understand the desirability of having a 100
gallon QT tanks, heaters keeping them for a year in these tanks and
virtually turning your small garden into a fish importers quarantine
industrial estate (I exaggerate for effect - but you know what I mean). Its
all very well to buy, sterilise, fill, heat, keep a watch on, maintain,
fence have the fish die anyway, etc etc, but I have got a proper job and
house to rebuild to keep me busy, and I don't have any room for tanks.

The cost and effort put into running the QT tanks needs to be assessed
against the likely hood of the newly introduced fish dying, or more
worrying, existing stocks dying.

The POLL:-

Just how many fish have people in this newsgroup bought, and have died in
the first, say, year? Both with and without using quarentee procedures.
And how many times have existing stocks been killed of by diseases carried
by the newcomer?

I'll start it off. I have added 10 Koi, in 5 batches over 5 years, 8 GF in
4 batches over 5 years, 2 grass carp, 2 golden tench. All added as tiddlers.
The grass carp are 12 inches long, and the Koi range from 12 to 16 inches
long.

Deaths: first occurrence this year, 1 out of 1 3 inch tiddler Koi added.
seemed very happy for the first 3 weeks then poof! without any warning.
Purchased in the autumn.

1 off 16 inch Koi died out of the blue, over a year after the addition of
any newcomer.

I suspect that this is very typical of pond life and death, whether
quarantining or not - but lets find out. Over to you.

I also lost 2 starlets (dwarf stergeon) but a fish importer told me that
they are not suitable for ponds, they like rivers.

wrote in message news:41741efc@padme....
Continuing the topic of the likelihood of newly introduced GF or Koi dying
within the first year. Whilst I understand the desirability of having a
100
gallon QT tanks, heaters keeping them for a year in these tanks and
virtually turning your small garden into a fish importers quarantine
industrial estate (I exaggerate for effect - but you know what I mean).
Its
all very well to buy, sterilise, fill, heat, keep a watch on, maintain,
fence have the fish die anyway, etc etc, but I have got a proper job and
house to rebuild to keep me busy, and I don't have any room for tanks.

The cost and effort put into running the QT tanks needs to be assessed
against the likely hood of the newly introduced fish dying, or more
worrying, existing stocks dying.

The POLL:-

Just how many fish have people in this newsgroup bought, and have died in
the first, say, year? Both with and without using quarentee procedures.
And how many times have existing stocks been killed of by diseases carried
by the newcomer?

I'll start it off. I have added 10 Koi, in 5 batches over 5 years, 8 GF
in
4 batches over 5 years, 2 grass carp, 2 golden tench. All added as
tiddlers.
The grass carp are 12 inches long, and the Koi range from 12 to 16 inches
long.

Deaths: first occurrence this year, 1 out of 1 3 inch tiddler Koi
added.
seemed very happy for the first 3 weeks then poof! without any warning.
Purchased in the autumn.

1 off 16 inch Koi died out of the blue, over a year after the addition of
any newcomer.

I suspect that this is very typical of pond life and death, whether
quarantining or not - but lets find out. Over to you.

I also lost 2 starlets (dwarf stergeon) but a fish importer told me that
they are not suitable for ponds, they like rivers.








I purchased 3 goldfish this summer. They came from the feeder tanks at
Petsmart. No room to quarantine, so they went straight into the pond. They
& all the other goldfish (about 7 or 8) are all fine. I've done this on
several occasions with no ill effect. Yes, I realize I'm probably playing
Russian roulette, but that's the way it has to be right now.

Jacqui

wrote in message news:41741efc@padme....
Continuing the topic of the likelihood of newly introduced GF or Koi dying
within the first year. Whilst I understand the desirability of having a
100
gallon QT tanks, heaters keeping them for a year in these tanks and
virtually turning your small garden into a fish importers quarantine
industrial estate (I exaggerate for effect - but you know what I mean).
Its
all very well to buy, sterilise, fill, heat, keep a watch on, maintain,
fence have the fish die anyway, etc etc, but I have got a proper job and
house to rebuild to keep me busy, and I don't have any room for tanks.

The cost and effort put into running the QT tanks needs to be assessed
against the likely hood of the newly introduced fish dying, or more
worrying, existing stocks dying.

The POLL:-

Just how many fish have people in this newsgroup bought, and have died in
the first, say, year? Both with and without using quarentee procedures.
And how many times have existing stocks been killed of by diseases carried
by the newcomer?

I'll start it off. I have added 10 Koi, in 5 batches over 5 years, 8 GF
in
4 batches over 5 years, 2 grass carp, 2 golden tench. All added as
tiddlers.
The grass carp are 12 inches long, and the Koi range from 12 to 16 inches
long.

Deaths: first occurrence this year, 1 out of 1 3 inch tiddler Koi
added.
seemed very happy for the first 3 weeks then poof! without any warning.
Purchased in the autumn.

1 off 16 inch Koi died out of the blue, over a year after the addition of
any newcomer.

I suspect that this is very typical of pond life and death, whether
quarantining or not - but lets find out. Over to you.

I also lost 2 starlets (dwarf stergeon) but a fish importer told me that
they are not suitable for ponds, they like rivers.


Bought 6 $3 Goldfish from Walmart last year.
Something ate 3. Raccoons?
Installed FIDO fence.
Bought three more WalMart fish.
Two of the new fish died.
Heron ate our 'prize' GF.
Brought 3 remaining fish + two tiny babies inside.
They're still inside.

Bought 10 $0.22 feeders from the LFS this year.
One died. No more critter problems, they have great respect for the electric
fence.
These guys did not grow as much as their 'expensive' cousins, but seem OK.
They're staying outside this winter, so I expect more losses.

wrote in message news:41741efc@padme....
Continuing the topic of the likelihood of newly introduced GF or Koi dying
within the first year. Whilst I understand the desirability of having a 100
gallon QT tanks, heaters keeping them for a year in these tanks and virtually
turning your small garden into a fish importers quarantine industrial estate
(I exaggerate for effect - but you know what I mean). Its all very well to
buy, sterilise, fill, heat, keep a watch on, maintain, fence have the fish die
anyway, etc etc, but I have got a proper job and house to rebuild to keep me
busy, and I don't have any room for tanks.

The cost and effort put into running the QT tanks needs to be assessed against
the likely hood of the newly introduced fish dying, or more worrying, existing
stocks dying.

The POLL:-

Just how many fish have people in this newsgroup bought, and have died in the
first, say, year? Both with and without using quarentee procedures. And how
many times have existing stocks been killed of by diseases carried by the
newcomer?

Year one: Bought six Koi, one adult comet, two shubukans, one white and
gold/red nearly adult goldfish, and one 14" albino channel catfish. Bought 12
feeder goldfish (comets) for the catfish. He ate four. The remaining ones grew
up. Lost one koi to an "accidental feeding by the albino cat - I threw so food
in, and both went for the same pellet at the same time: The koi lost. I lost
one small koi during the winter due to reasons unknown (he simply disappeared,
but might have become catfish food).

Year two - this year: Bought two koi, lost one (catfish?). The other is doing
fine. One of the feeder goldfish that I bought last year jumped out, but I
didn't find him until much too late. Adult goldfish and white and gold goldfish
bred, with 8 finderlings surviving (one of which is gold and white, and another
is solid white, while the rest are gold/red). All are healthy and have grown
significantly since spring.

Lost no fish due to disease. The only fish I've had that ever got sick was the
catfish, and he's been sick twice (once last year in August, and once this year
ion August - coincidence?), but albinos are more susceptible to disease than
most other fish. He's fine now, and is at least 28" long, and weighs about 8-9
lbs.

Pond - 1,500 gallon, 12'x5'x45" deep.

Waaaaaay back when the pond was new I remember losing one fish. A rosie red.
From PetsMart The very next day.. Put all sorts of fish in from various sources
over the years, store, jj's, two ponds being dismantled, one batch that came
via airplane. Not one loss. Always right into the pond.
I have lost fish, due to winter problems and getting caught by the weather,
having the pond fireeze over and not being able to get to it for a while. All
mine own fault. And then there was the Kingfisher. And the bullfrogs. And the
labradors used to conduct vice raids on spawning fish. Oh, and one to the
router rooter.
But saying all that I'd still recommend jj's or Ingrid's quarantine maneuvers
out of an abundance of caution when posting advice on an open message board.I
guess it is the litigious days we live in, everybody naturally wants to cover
all bases.

kathy :-)
3000 gallon pond
800 gallon frog bog
home of the watergardening labradors
zone 7 SE WA state

I haven't purchased one fish since 1995! They all lived and have spawned.
Went from having 7 Koi to 13. I don't shop for Koi - never did.
My lps lady got me started on Koi and that was in 1995.
I don't believe in tempting fate. Needless to say I have never quarantined
a fish.

Nedra in Missouri
zone 6

"Ka30P" wrote in message
...
Waaaaaay back when the pond was new I remember losing one fish. A rosie
red.
From PetsMart The very next day.. Put all sorts of fish in from various
sources
over the years, store, jj's, two ponds being dismantled, one batch that
came
via airplane. Not one loss. Always right into the pond.
I have lost fish, due to winter problems and getting caught by the
weather,
having the pond fireeze over and not being able to get to it for a while.
All
mine own fault. And then there was the Kingfisher. And the bullfrogs. And
the
labradors used to conduct vice raids on spawning fish. Oh, and one to the
router rooter.
But saying all that I'd still recommend jj's or Ingrid's quarantine
maneuvers
out of an abundance of caution when posting advice on an open message
board.I
guess it is the litigious days we live in, everybody naturally wants to
cover
all bases.

kathy :-)
3000 gallon pond
800 gallon frog bog
home of the watergardening labradors
zone 7 SE WA state

On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 20:46:53 +0100,
wrote:

Just how many fish have people in this newsgroup bought, and have died in
the first, say, year?

This is a new pond, and my first, but I have been an aquarium keeper
for years.
Fish into the pond this year were four rosy minnow feeders of which
two were found dead floating a few days later. The other two have
spawned and now I have hundreds. This is about 25% or the total
schools that were there at one time.
Three feeder goldfish dumped in about the same time have all survived
and thrive.
Five inch goldfish, previously held captive in a tank with and Oscar,
was abruptly freed one morning when a large pleco was surprised
chewing on its face. It is very pretty, mostly white, and has survived
the constant attention of the smaller goldfish very well.
Two small pl*cs went in a couple of weeks ago, one was seen today,
sunning itself, did not move all day. I have not seen the other all
week.
The temp today was down to 48*F water, 55*F air, clear, sunny, mild
breeze. I have turned the fountain off, but the fish bubbler and
veggie waterfall are still running.

--
Crashj

This year was the first year that I have had facilities to do quarantine, a
nice 1000 gallon show tank and 1/2 cubic foot bead filter. I always worried
that the koi, ranging in size from 8 or 10 inches, to over 26 inches would
overwhelm the 150 gallon stock tank. I have been very particular about who
and where I get fish. The simple parasites are easily treated in the pond
or in quarantine, but it is cheaper to treat less water. The biggest fear
now is the KHV and SVC viruses. These will kill koi, and very rapidly, and
in large numbers. The quarantine facility need to have the ability to go
through temperature swings to activate the viruses, or they can be missed in
a normal quarantine. That may mean the quarantine needs to last well into
cool weather where it can go cold, and then with heaters, be warmed back up,
or allowed to go for the entire year to see cool water and warm water.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html

wrote in message news:41741efc@padme....
Continuing the topic of the likelihood of newly introduced GF or Koi dying
within the first year. Whilst I understand the desirability of having a
100 gallon QT tanks, heaters keeping them for a year in these tanks and
virtually turning your small garden into a fish importers quarantine
industrial estate (I exaggerate for effect - but you know what I mean).
Its all very well to buy, sterilise, fill, heat, keep a watch on,
maintain, fence have the fish die anyway, etc etc, but I have got a proper
job and house to rebuild to keep me busy, and I don't have any room for
tanks.

The cost and effort put into running the QT tanks needs to be assessed
against the likely hood of the newly introduced fish dying, or more
worrying, existing stocks dying.

The POLL:-

Just how many fish have people in this newsgroup bought, and have died in
the first, say, year? Both with and without using quarentee procedures.
And how many times have existing stocks been killed of by diseases carried
by the newcomer?

I'll start it off. I have added 10 Koi, in 5 batches over 5 years, 8 GF
in 4 batches over 5 years, 2 grass carp, 2 golden tench. All added as
tiddlers. The grass carp are 12 inches long, and the Koi range from 12 to
16 inches long.

Deaths: first occurrence this year, 1 out of 1 3 inch tiddler Koi
added. seemed very happy for the first 3 weeks then poof! without any
warning. Purchased in the autumn.

1 off 16 inch Koi died out of the blue, over a year after the addition of
any newcomer.

I suspect that this is very typical of pond life and death, whether
quarantining or not - but lets find out. Over to you.

I also lost 2 starlets (dwarf stergeon) but a fish importer told me that
they are not suitable for ponds, they like rivers.

On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 20:46:53 +0100, wrote:

The POLL:-

Just how many fish have people in this newsgroup bought, and have died in
the first, say, year? Both with and without using quarentee procedures.
And how many times have existing stocks been killed of by diseases carried
by the newcomer?

I don't think this poll is going to give you much comfort. Many koi die
within 2 - 6 weeks just from poor management of water quality and than
2ndary infections, and/or parasites that might have come with the koi or
been in the pond, take advantage of the suppressed immune system.

Iows, healthy purchase, koi keeper killed it.

If quarantining doesn't work for you, for whatever reason, I highly suggest
you at least salt dip any new fish before putting them in the pond. Knowing
you run the risk, of infecting the pond with a virus, that salt dipping
can't kill. At which point, you'll deal with it. What the ratio to risk
factor is, I have no idea. ~ jan


~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

Dude,

It's like having sex without condom, maybe the lady will get pregnant, maybe
you get gonorrhea, maybe you get aids, it only has to happen once then it's
too late.

I too use to poopoo Ingrid for her constant advice on quarantine, until
disaster struck twice ( Now I confess)

For many months I had grown my Koi, trained them to love me, and then I was
at Wal-Mart and saw this incredible goldfish that looked like Koi. I wanted
it so bad, so when my daughter put the slightest of pressure on me to get
it, deal was done. Got home, floated the bag for a while, and in goes fish.
Lost half of my Koi collection! And I spent a bundle to try and save them,
but them were murdered fish in the hands of "me"

So I swore never to buy fish again, my resistance lasted a few days. Built
new pond in addition to the existing, put in lovely huge Koi, all
quarantined. Dipped in salt before going into the quarantine tank, and
ultimately dipped again before going into the new pond. Not a single death!

Then the greed/impatience in me struck. I saw the most beautiful Showa at a
Koi auction. Bid for it and ultimately over paid. So I got home, and
wanted to see how this new Koi was going to complete my lovely collection of
imported Koi. About 8 of them averaging in cost of $200 per fish. They
were all healthy, until I put in the auction Showa, and then they all died
good, murdered again by me, while my lovely quarantine tank complete with
filter and pump sat nearby unused. But I was too impatient.

I have since collected more Koi, and now swear by my quarantine tank. Thank
you Ingrid, and sorry I didn't listen to you sooner.

--
_______________________________________
"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."

http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino

wrote in message news:41741efc@padme....
Continuing the topic of the likelihood of newly introduced GF or Koi dying
within the first year. Whilst I understand the desirability of having a
100
gallon QT tanks, heaters keeping them for a year in these tanks and
virtually turning your small garden into a fish importers quarantine
industrial estate (I exaggerate for effect - but you know what I mean).
Its
all very well to buy, sterilise, fill, heat, keep a watch on, maintain,
fence have the fish die anyway, etc etc, but I have got a proper job and
house to rebuild to keep me busy, and I don't have any room for tanks.

The cost and effort put into running the QT tanks needs to be assessed
against the likely hood of the newly introduced fish dying, or more
worrying, existing stocks dying.

The POLL:-

Just how many fish have people in this newsgroup bought, and have died in
the first, say, year? Both with and without using quarentee procedures.
And how many times have existing stocks been killed of by diseases carried
by the newcomer?

I'll start it off. I have added 10 Koi, in 5 batches over 5 years, 8 GF
in
4 batches over 5 years, 2 grass carp, 2 golden tench. All added as
tiddlers.
The grass carp are 12 inches long, and the Koi range from 12 to 16 inches
long.

Deaths: first occurrence this year, 1 out of 1 3 inch tiddler Koi
added.
seemed very happy for the first 3 weeks then poof! without any warning.
Purchased in the autumn.

1 off 16 inch Koi died out of the blue, over a year after the addition of
any newcomer.

I suspect that this is very typical of pond life and death, whether
quarantining or not - but lets find out. Over to you.

I also lost 2 starlets (dwarf stergeon) but a fish importer told me that
they are not suitable for ponds, they like rivers.