electricity in water

[plaguebeast]

Can a PS generate current into the sump that it is sitting in ? Last night
I was able to put my hand into my sump, now, 8 hours of running time later,
I get a mild, but nonetheless unpleasant shock that does not seem to
discharge or kick my GFCI.

Any ideas ? I don't think troubleshooting this is going to be easy. I guess
I could use a multitester with on probe in the sump, but where would I put
the ground ? If the voltage was being caused by a regular electrical short
then the GFCI should have tripped but it did not. So, where do I put the
ground from the voltmeter ?

[plaguebeast]

"plaguebeast" > wrote in message
...
> Can a PS generate current into the sump that it is sitting in ? Last
night
> I was able to put my hand into my sump, now, 8 hours of running time
later,
> I get a mild, but nonetheless unpleasant shock that does not seem to
> discharge or kick my GFCI.
>
> Any ideas ? I don't think troubleshooting this is going to be easy. I
guess
> I could use a multitester with on probe in the sump, but where would I put
> the ground ? If the voltage was being caused by a regular electrical
short
> then the GFCI should have tripped but it did not. So, where do I put the
> ground from the voltmeter ?
>
>
>

ok, never mind, seems like the problem is in the Mag 7. I swapped it out
for another Mag 7 and it didn't shock me. What a crappy way of testing for
the problem...ok, stick my finger in the water a little bit and see if I
feel anything, nothing ? ok, put my whole hand in, no shock, ok, found the
problem. It was only a little shock but enough to let me know that there is
a problem.

[Marc Levenson]

LoL. I would suggest that next time you have that event, try pressing all plugs
into their respective outlets firmly and see if that doesn't make the "shock
test" easier to perform. :)

Marc


plaguebeast wrote:

> "plaguebeast" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Can a PS generate current into the sump that it is sitting in ? Last
> night
> > I was able to put my hand into my sump, now, 8 hours of running time
> later,
> > I get a mild, but nonetheless unpleasant shock that does not seem to
> > discharge or kick my GFCI.
> >
> > Any ideas ? I don't think troubleshooting this is going to be easy. I
> guess
> > I could use a multitester with on probe in the sump, but where would I put
> > the ground ? If the voltage was being caused by a regular electrical
> short
> > then the GFCI should have tripped but it did not. So, where do I put the
> > ground from the voltmeter ?
> >
> >
> >
>
> ok, never mind, seems like the problem is in the Mag 7. I swapped it out
> for another Mag 7 and it didn't shock me. What a crappy way of testing for
> the problem...ok, stick my finger in the water a little bit and see if I
> feel anything, nothing ? ok, put my whole hand in, no shock, ok, found the
> problem. It was only a little shock but enough to let me know that there is
> a problem.

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[plaguebeast]

Marc,

I am not sure if you are encouraging me to press the plug in harder to
allow the pins to make better contact for more voltage or better contact for
the ground pin and I am almost too scared to ask. Instead I am going to go
get a new Mag 7 and send this one back to Marine Depot on Monday.

Any idea of the other Mag drives, like a 9 or higher, can suck water from a
lower point ? I guess it would need to have a bleed valve to let the air
out.



"Marc Levenson" > wrote in message
...
> LoL. I would suggest that next time you have that event, try pressing all
plugs
> into their respective outlets firmly and see if that doesn't make the
"shock
> test" easier to perform. :)
>
> Marc
>
>
> plaguebeast wrote:
>
> > "plaguebeast" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Can a PS generate current into the sump that it is sitting in ? Last
> > night
> > > I was able to put my hand into my sump, now, 8 hours of running time
> > later,
> > > I get a mild, but nonetheless unpleasant shock that does not seem to
> > > discharge or kick my GFCI.
> > >
> > > Any ideas ? I don't think troubleshooting this is going to be easy. I
> > guess
> > > I could use a multitester with on probe in the sump, but where would I
put
> > > the ground ? If the voltage was being caused by a regular electrical
> > short
> > > then the GFCI should have tripped but it did not. So, where do I put
the
> > > ground from the voltmeter ?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ok, never mind, seems like the problem is in the Mag 7. I swapped it
out
> > for another Mag 7 and it didn't shock me. What a crappy way of testing
for
> > the problem...ok, stick my finger in the water a little bit and see if I
> > feel anything, nothing ? ok, put my whole hand in, no shock, ok, found
the
> > problem. It was only a little shock but enough to let me know that
there is
> > a problem.
>
> --
> Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
> Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
> Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com
>
>

[Marc Levenson]

Yes, I'm talking about pushing in the plugs a little more firmly. I was
getting shocked by my tank for a week, and it turned out to be the 6-way outlet
wasn't plugged in all the way. Talk about a simple fix!!!

However, if your Mag drive is defective, send it back! I had to do that myself.

You mean have the pump not submerged, and have it draw water up into it? You'd
have to hook up some type of p-trap and a vent to keep some water in the pump at
all times, and that is something I've never tried to do.

Marc


plaguebeast wrote:

> Marc,
>
> I am not sure if you are encouraging me to press the plug in harder to
> allow the pins to make better contact for more voltage or better contact for
> the ground pin and I am almost too scared to ask. Instead I am going to go
> get a new Mag 7 and send this one back to Marine Depot on Monday.
>
> Any idea of the other Mag drives, like a 9 or higher, can suck water from a
> lower point ? I guess it would need to have a bleed valve to let the air
> out.
>
> "Marc Levenson" > wrote in message
> ...
> > LoL. I would suggest that next time you have that event, try pressing all
> plugs
> > into their respective outlets firmly and see if that doesn't make the
> "shock
> > test" easier to perform. :)
> >
> > Marc
> >
> >
> > plaguebeast wrote:
> >
> > > "plaguebeast" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > Can a PS generate current into the sump that it is sitting in ? Last
> > > night
> > > > I was able to put my hand into my sump, now, 8 hours of running time
> > > later,
> > > > I get a mild, but nonetheless unpleasant shock that does not seem to
> > > > discharge or kick my GFCI.
> > > >
> > > > Any ideas ? I don't think troubleshooting this is going to be easy. I
> > > guess
> > > > I could use a multitester with on probe in the sump, but where would I
> put
> > > > the ground ? If the voltage was being caused by a regular electrical
> > > short
> > > > then the GFCI should have tripped but it did not. So, where do I put
> the
> > > > ground from the voltmeter ?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > ok, never mind, seems like the problem is in the Mag 7. I swapped it
> out
> > > for another Mag 7 and it didn't shock me. What a crappy way of testing
> for
> > > the problem...ok, stick my finger in the water a little bit and see if I
> > > feel anything, nothing ? ok, put my whole hand in, no shock, ok, found
> the
> > > problem. It was only a little shock but enough to let me know that
> there is
> > > a problem.
> >
> > --
> > Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
> > Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
> > Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com
> >
> >

--
Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com

[plaguebeast]

This one is submerged but another Mag 7 I have on a different tank was
suspect in warming the water in the sump. (it was only a suspect as the real
culprit was a Rio that had it's intakes partially blocked)

I was hoping that one of the other Mags might be able to suck air and water,
allowing the pump to sit at the same level as the water level in the sump,
with a pipe leading from under the water, up and over the side and then back
down to the pump which would be sitting on the same surface as the sump. I
build the pipe but as soon as I turned on the Mag I remember that it was a
centrifigal pump and was not going to be able to suck the air through the
pipe. Anyway, to make a long story short, the pump went back into the sump
and the heating issue was resolved another way. I just wanted to know if
there was a way to locate the Mag outside of the sump, somehow drawing the
water up and then down to it.

As far as the Mag with the possible short/leak, I am no longer interested in
testing the problem. I bought another Mag7 and replaced the bad one. If my
conscience allows me, I will just return the faulty one claiming it was the
one I just bought today and that it was shocking me. I have spent a few
thousand dollars there, I don't feel bad and according to the guy in the
store, they will just send it back anyway, so no skin off their back, I just
won't have to deal with a long phone call with Marine Depot.


"Marc Levenson" > wrote in message
...
> Yes, I'm talking about pushing in the plugs a little more firmly. I was
> getting shocked by my tank for a week, and it turned out to be the 6-way
outlet
> wasn't plugged in all the way. Talk about a simple fix!!!
>
> However, if your Mag drive is defective, send it back! I had to do that
myself.
>
> You mean have the pump not submerged, and have it draw water up into it?
You'd
> have to hook up some type of p-trap and a vent to keep some water in the
pump at
> all times, and that is something I've never tried to do.
>
> Marc
>
>
> plaguebeast wrote:
>
> > Marc,
> >
> > I am not sure if you are encouraging me to press the plug in harder
to
> > allow the pins to make better contact for more voltage or better contact
for
> > the ground pin and I am almost too scared to ask. Instead I am going to
go
> > get a new Mag 7 and send this one back to Marine Depot on Monday.
> >
> > Any idea of the other Mag drives, like a 9 or higher, can suck water
from a
> > lower point ? I guess it would need to have a bleed valve to let the
air
> > out.
> >
> > "Marc Levenson" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > LoL. I would suggest that next time you have that event, try pressing
all
> > plugs
> > > into their respective outlets firmly and see if that doesn't make the
> > "shock
> > > test" easier to perform. :)
> > >
> > > Marc
> > >
> > >
> > > plaguebeast wrote:
> > >
> > > > "plaguebeast" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > > Can a PS generate current into the sump that it is sitting in ?
Last
> > > > night
> > > > > I was able to put my hand into my sump, now, 8 hours of running
time
> > > > later,
> > > > > I get a mild, but nonetheless unpleasant shock that does not seem
to
> > > > > discharge or kick my GFCI.
> > > > >
> > > > > Any ideas ? I don't think troubleshooting this is going to be
easy. I
> > > > guess
> > > > > I could use a multitester with on probe in the sump, but where
would I
> > put
> > > > > the ground ? If the voltage was being caused by a regular
electrical
> > > > short
> > > > > then the GFCI should have tripped but it did not. So, where do I
put
> > the
> > > > > ground from the voltmeter ?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > ok, never mind, seems like the problem is in the Mag 7. I swapped
it
> > out
> > > > for another Mag 7 and it didn't shock me. What a crappy way of
testing
> > for
> > > > the problem...ok, stick my finger in the water a little bit and see
if I
> > > > feel anything, nothing ? ok, put my whole hand in, no shock, ok,
found
> > the
> > > > problem. It was only a little shock but enough to let me know that
> > there is
> > > > a problem.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Personal Page:
http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
> > > Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
> > > Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com
> > >
> > >
>
> --
> Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
> Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
> Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com
>
>

[plaguebeast]

well, now I know for sure what the problem is. The ****ing asshole that I
bought my house from decided to run an outlet with no ground. Of course I
only became aware of it when I was standing in water with my hands in the
sump. This receptacle is in my garage, a place where you use tools,
wouldn't it make sense to have the outlets grounded ?

While I would love to get the guy, a better solution would be to have an
electrician come and wire the receptacle correctly.


"plaguebeast" > wrote in message
...
> This one is submerged but another Mag 7 I have on a different tank was
> suspect in warming the water in the sump. (it was only a suspect as the
real
> culprit was a Rio that had it's intakes partially blocked)
>
> I was hoping that one of the other Mags might be able to suck air and
water,
> allowing the pump to sit at the same level as the water level in the sump,
> with a pipe leading from under the water, up and over the side and then
back
> down to the pump which would be sitting on the same surface as the sump.
I
> build the pipe but as soon as I turned on the Mag I remember that it was a
> centrifigal pump and was not going to be able to suck the air through the
> pipe. Anyway, to make a long story short, the pump went back into the
sump
> and the heating issue was resolved another way. I just wanted to know if
> there was a way to locate the Mag outside of the sump, somehow drawing the
> water up and then down to it.
>
> As far as the Mag with the possible short/leak, I am no longer interested
in
> testing the problem. I bought another Mag7 and replaced the bad one. If
my
> conscience allows me, I will just return the faulty one claiming it was
the
> one I just bought today and that it was shocking me. I have spent a few
> thousand dollars there, I don't feel bad and according to the guy in the
> store, they will just send it back anyway, so no skin off their back, I
just
> won't have to deal with a long phone call with Marine Depot.
>
>
> "Marc Levenson" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Yes, I'm talking about pushing in the plugs a little more firmly. I
was
> > getting shocked by my tank for a week, and it turned out to be the 6-way
> outlet
> > wasn't plugged in all the way. Talk about a simple fix!!!
> >
> > However, if your Mag drive is defective, send it back! I had to do that
> myself.
> >
> > You mean have the pump not submerged, and have it draw water up into it?
> You'd
> > have to hook up some type of p-trap and a vent to keep some water in the
> pump at
> > all times, and that is something I've never tried to do.
> >
> > Marc
> >
> >
> > plaguebeast wrote:
> >
> > > Marc,
> > >
> > > I am not sure if you are encouraging me to press the plug in
harder
> to
> > > allow the pins to make better contact for more voltage or better
contact
> for
> > > the ground pin and I am almost too scared to ask. Instead I am going
to
> go
> > > get a new Mag 7 and send this one back to Marine Depot on Monday.
> > >
> > > Any idea of the other Mag drives, like a 9 or higher, can suck water
> from a
> > > lower point ? I guess it would need to have a bleed valve to let the
> air
> > > out.
> > >
> > > "Marc Levenson" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > LoL. I would suggest that next time you have that event, try
pressing
> all
> > > plugs
> > > > into their respective outlets firmly and see if that doesn't make
the
> > > "shock
> > > > test" easier to perform. :)
> > > >
> > > > Marc
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > plaguebeast wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > "plaguebeast" > wrote in message
> > > > > ...
> > > > > > Can a PS generate current into the sump that it is sitting in ?
> Last
> > > > > night
> > > > > > I was able to put my hand into my sump, now, 8 hours of running
> time
> > > > > later,
> > > > > > I get a mild, but nonetheless unpleasant shock that does not
seem
> to
> > > > > > discharge or kick my GFCI.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Any ideas ? I don't think troubleshooting this is going to be
> easy. I
> > > > > guess
> > > > > > I could use a multitester with on probe in the sump, but where
> would I
> > > put
> > > > > > the ground ? If the voltage was being caused by a regular
> electrical
> > > > > short
> > > > > > then the GFCI should have tripped but it did not. So, where do
I
> put
> > > the
> > > > > > ground from the voltmeter ?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ok, never mind, seems like the problem is in the Mag 7. I swapped
> it
> > > out
> > > > > for another Mag 7 and it didn't shock me. What a crappy way of
> testing
> > > for
> > > > > the problem...ok, stick my finger in the water a little bit and
see
> if I
> > > > > feel anything, nothing ? ok, put my whole hand in, no shock, ok,
> found
> > > the
> > > > > problem. It was only a little shock but enough to let me know
that
> > > there is
> > > > > a problem.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Personal Page:
> http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
> > > > Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
> > > > Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> > --
> > Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html
> > Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com
> > Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com
> >
> >
>
>
>

[Lloyd Olson]

Always a good idea to have an outlet checker and check your outlets
occasionally. Simple tool available at a lot of places, usually about $10.
Easy to use and it will tell you if the hot, common, and ground are wired
right and working. LTG :)

plaguebeast > wrote in message
...
> well, now I know for sure what the problem is. The ****ing asshole that I
> bought my house from decided to run an outlet with no ground. Of course I
> only became aware of it when I was standing in water with my hands in the
> sump. This receptacle is in my garage, a place where you use tools,
> wouldn't it make sense to have the outlets grounded ?
>
> While I would love to get the guy, a better solution would be to have an
> electrician come and wire the receptacle correctly.

[plaguebeast]

I should probably have checked the outlet, we have found a ton of shortcuts
the previous owner did when it came to DIY stuff.

what is LTG ??


"Lloyd Olson" > wrote in message
...
> Always a good idea to have an outlet checker and check your outlets
> occasionally. Simple tool available at a lot of places, usually about $10.
> Easy to use and it will tell you if the hot, common, and ground are wired
> right and working. LTG :)
>
> plaguebeast > wrote in message
> ...
> > well, now I know for sure what the problem is. The ****ing asshole that
I
> > bought my house from decided to run an outlet with no ground. Of course
I
> > only became aware of it when I was standing in water with my hands in
the
> > sump. This receptacle is in my garage, a place where you use tools,
> > wouldn't it make sense to have the outlets grounded ?
> >
> > While I would love to get the guy, a better solution would be to have an
> > electrician come and wire the receptacle correctly.
>
>
>

[Lloyd Olson]

Long story emailed to you. LTG :)

plaguebeast > wrote in message
...
> I should probably have checked the outlet, we have found a ton of shortcuts
> the previous owner did when it came to DIY stuff.
>
> what is LTG ??