50g experiment, day 1

[Liz McGuire]

So, I was tired of taking care of two tanks (a 10g and 6g), cuz the
10g was a little over stocked, thus requiring extra care, and the 6g
(planted, w/ betta) was growing every algae known to man (cuz I don't
know how to take care of plants, I suppose, and I don't really relish
experimenting with a poor fishy in there...).

So I decided a 50g was the answer. :-)

So, we got the 50g and I got it all set up (fake plants & various
decorations + a nice piece of drift wood). I let it go for a day and
then transferred the filters and fish from the 10g (6 neon tetras, 5
harlequin rasboras and 2 otos). I let them get used to it for a
couple hours (yes, I'm impatient) and then the experiment began...

I captured Dart, the betta, from his 6g isolation tank and put him
in. The curious rasboras immediately came over to say hi and he
promptly flared at them and chased them away. For about the past 2
hours, he's been exploring: got his tail caught on the filter intake a
few times - I think he's learning; has covered most of the tank and I
think he's figuring out the currents (at least some of his surfing
seemed involuntary <g>). Ah! And he just discovered that there's an
inside to the big tree-stump + mushrooms decoration! I was hoping
this might become the betta cave!

And, of course, he's continuing to chase everyone (though not flaring
all the time). His favorites, at present are the otos - he seems to
think they're the slowest, maybe because they wait until he's almost
there before they swim away. It appears that the rasboras
occasionally run interference for the poor otos (can't be sure of it,
but that's what it looks like). Perhaps this is why his second
favorite targets are the rasboras - who are much too fast for him, but
he still seems to want to herd them about the tank. He doesn't seem
very interested in the neons - nor they in him. For the first little
while, the neons hung out together at the bottom and only moved to
avoid him. Now they're swimming about in the middle, tending to stay
near the rasboras, but the mutual disinterest continues.

I'm not sure how long to let this go on - I'm hoping we can all calm
down and live in peace... But I guess we'll see how things are at
dinner time.

On the up side, everyone's colors are really bright right now! :-/

Updates will be posted until things calm down.

Liz

PS: There's too much daylight right now for a good pic, but here's an
OK one:

http://www.lizmcguireonline.com/fish/50g.jpg

(You can just barely see the end of Dart's tail as he goes past the
filter intake behind and on the right of the stump/shrooms
decoration.)

[NetMax]

"Liz McGuire" > wrote in message
...
> So, I was tired of taking care of two tanks (a 10g and 6g), cuz the
> 10g was a little over stocked, thus requiring extra care, and the 6g
> (planted, w/ betta) was growing every algae known to man (cuz I don't
> know how to take care of plants, I suppose, and I don't really relish
> experimenting with a poor fishy in there...).
>
> So I decided a 50g was the answer. :-)
>
> So, we got the 50g and I got it all set up (fake plants & various
> decorations + a nice piece of drift wood). I let it go for a day and
> then transferred the filters and fish from the 10g (6 neon tetras, 5
> harlequin rasboras and 2 otos). I let them get used to it for a
> couple hours (yes, I'm impatient) and then the experiment began...
>
> I captured Dart, the betta, from his 6g isolation tank and put him
> in. The curious rasboras immediately came over to say hi and he
> promptly flared at them and chased them away. For about the past 2
> hours, he's been exploring: got his tail caught on the filter intake a
> few times - I think he's learning; has covered most of the tank and I
> think he's figuring out the currents (at least some of his surfing
> seemed involuntary <g>). Ah! And he just discovered that there's an
> inside to the big tree-stump + mushrooms decoration! I was hoping
> this might become the betta cave!
>
> And, of course, he's continuing to chase everyone (though not flaring
> all the time). His favorites, at present are the otos - he seems to
> think they're the slowest, maybe because they wait until he's almost
> there before they swim away. It appears that the rasboras
> occasionally run interference for the poor otos (can't be sure of it,
> but that's what it looks like). Perhaps this is why his second
> favorite targets are the rasboras - who are much too fast for him, but
> he still seems to want to herd them about the tank. He doesn't seem
> very interested in the neons - nor they in him. For the first little
> while, the neons hung out together at the bottom and only moved to
> avoid him. Now they're swimming about in the middle, tending to stay
> near the rasboras, but the mutual disinterest continues.
>
> I'm not sure how long to let this go on - I'm hoping we can all calm
> down and live in peace... But I guess we'll see how things are at
> dinner time.
>
> On the up side, everyone's colors are really bright right now! :-/
>
> Updates will be posted until things calm down.
>
> Liz
>
> PS: There's too much daylight right now for a good pic, but here's an
> OK one:
>
> http://www.lizmcguireonline.com/fish/50g.jpg
>
> (You can just barely see the end of Dart's tail as he goes past the
> filter intake behind and on the right of the stump/shrooms
> decoration.)

lol, from a 10g to a 50g, those are happy fish :o). My guess is that if
Dart's not done any serious damage by now, he will settle in nicely.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Liz McGuire]

Well, everyone's still alive with no physical injuries, fish are
swimming more freely now (don't seem as worried about Dart), one of
the otos is sucking on a piece of zucchini and two of the rasboras
have run off to a corner together and are spawning. :-)

I guess the experiment is going well. Hopefully it will still be in
the morning.

Liz


NetMax wrote:
>
> lol, from a 10g to a 50g, those are happy fish :o). My guess is that if
> Dart's not done any serious damage by now, he will settle in nicely.

[Bill Stock]

"Liz McGuire" > wrote in message
...
> So, I was tired of taking care of two tanks (a 10g and 6g), cuz the
> 10g was a little over stocked, thus requiring extra care, and the 6g
> (planted, w/ betta) was growing every algae known to man (cuz I don't
> know how to take care of plants, I suppose, and I don't really relish
> experimenting with a poor fishy in there...).
>
> So I decided a 50g was the answer. :-)
>
> So, we got the 50g and I got it all set up (fake plants & various
> decorations + a nice piece of drift wood). I let it go for a day and
> then transferred the filters and fish from the 10g (6 neon tetras, 5
> harlequin rasboras and 2 otos). I let them get used to it for a
> couple hours (yes, I'm impatient) and then the experiment began...
>
> I captured Dart, the betta, from his 6g isolation tank and put him
> in. The curious rasboras immediately came over to say hi and he
> promptly flared at them and chased them away. For about the past 2
> hours, he's been exploring: got his tail caught on the filter intake a
> few times - I think he's learning; has covered most of the tank and I
> think he's figuring out the currents (at least some of his surfing
> seemed involuntary <g>). Ah! And he just discovered that there's an
> inside to the big tree-stump + mushrooms decoration! I was hoping
> this might become the betta cave!
>
> And, of course, he's continuing to chase everyone (though not flaring
> all the time). His favorites, at present are the otos - he seems to
> think they're the slowest, maybe because they wait until he's almost
> there before they swim away. It appears that the rasboras
> occasionally run interference for the poor otos (can't be sure of it,
> but that's what it looks like). Perhaps this is why his second
> favorite targets are the rasboras - who are much too fast for him, but
> he still seems to want to herd them about the tank. He doesn't seem
> very interested in the neons - nor they in him. For the first little
> while, the neons hung out together at the bottom and only moved to
> avoid him. Now they're swimming about in the middle, tending to stay
> near the rasboras, but the mutual disinterest continues.
>
> I'm not sure how long to let this go on - I'm hoping we can all calm
> down and live in peace... But I guess we'll see how things are at
> dinner time.
>
> On the up side, everyone's colors are really bright right now! :-/
>
> Updates will be posted until things calm down.
>
> Liz
>
> PS: There's too much daylight right now for a good pic, but here's an
> OK one:
>
> http://www.lizmcguireonline.com/fish/50g.jpg

Damn, your fish have there own cell phone. :)

Looks very good, your fish will enjoy the new space.


> (You can just barely see the end of Dart's tail as he goes past the
> filter intake behind and on the right of the stump/shrooms
> decoration.)

[Koi-lo]

"Liz McGuire" > wrote in message
...
> So, I was tired of taking care of two tanks (a 10g and 6g), cuz the
> 10g was a little over stocked, thus requiring extra care, and the 6g
> (planted, w/ betta) was growing every algae known to man (cuz I don't
> know how to take care of plants, I suppose, and I don't really relish
> experimenting with a poor fishy in there...).
>
> So I decided a 50g was the answer. :-)
>
> So, we got the 50g and I got it all set up (fake plants & various
> decorations + a nice piece of drift wood). I let it go for a day and
> then transferred the filters and fish from the 10g (6 neon tetras, 5
> harlequin rasboras and 2 otos). I let them get used to it for a
> couple hours (yes, I'm impatient) and then the experiment began...
>
> I captured Dart, the betta, from his 6g isolation tank and put him
> in. The curious rasboras immediately came over to say hi and he
> promptly flared at them and chased them away. For about the past 2
> hours, he's been exploring: got his tail caught on the filter intake a
> few times -

Get an aquarium sponge (those made for the Aquaclears are ideal), snip a
small hole in one end and pull it over your filter's intake strainer. Make
sure to cover the whole "strainer" part. Some of these filters for larger
tanks have a suction strong enough to actually trap and kill smaller fish.
I have them on all my filter intakes to prevent accidents and torn fins.

I think he's learning; has covered most of the tank and I
> think he's figuring out the currents (at least some of his surfing
> seemed involuntary <g>). Ah! And he just discovered that there's an
> inside to the big tree-stump + mushrooms decoration! I was hoping
> this might become the betta cave!

It sounds like he's really enjoying himself. :-)

Perhaps this is why his second
> favorite targets are the rasboras - who are much too fast for him, but
> he still seems to want to herd them about the tank.

I once had a community betta who learned to sneak up on the other fish -
then rush attack them an rip their fins. :-() All my bettas now live
alone.

> I'm not sure how long to let this go on - I'm hoping we can all calm
> down and live in peace... But I guess we'll see how things are at
> dinner time.

Keep us posted.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Troll Information:
http://tinyurl.com/9zbh
Reading Headers:
http://tinyurl.com/amm9s
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Liz McGuire]

Koi-lo wrote:
>
> Get an aquarium sponge (those made for the Aquaclears are ideal), snip a
> small hole in one end and pull it over your filter's intake strainer. Make
> sure to cover the whole "strainer" part. Some of these filters for larger
> tanks have a suction strong enough to actually trap and kill smaller fish.
> I have them on all my filter intakes to prevent accidents and torn fins.

So far it's only an issue with Dart and one of the filters from the
10g (a temporary situation until the bacteria spreads to the new
filter). But it's a good idea... Actually, the larger filters (only
one on for now, until it's got bacteria, then the 2 filters from the
10g go off and the second large filter goes on) have mid-tube as well
as end-of-tube intakes, I think the sponges would be esp. good for the
mid-tube intakes - I'll do what you suggest before I open these back
up (they're adjustable and closed now) as these will generate more
suction than any other intake. And I've already got a sponge for the
bottom of one of the large filters (the substrate is sand and they say
the sponge will help keep sand out of the filter and extend the life
of moving parts). So, I guess it's just a question of whether I put a
sponge on the temp filter - I'll see what I've got around at home -
easier than dealing with torn fins...

> It sounds like he's really enjoying himself. :-)

My husband thinks the surfing is intentional, I'm not sure all of it
is, but there are definitely times when I think he decides to "coast"
to his intended destination. :-) I was very surprised that he wasn't
bothered more by the current (given the volume of "bettas can't handle
current" statements out there), but it doesn't seem to bother him
hardly at all (guess the filter in the 6g helped get him used to a
current, so he's now prepared for a slightly stronger current).

> I once had a community betta who learned to sneak up on the other fish -
> then rush attack them an rip their fins. :-() All my bettas now live
> alone.

Yes, he's already discovered that he can hide in the stump decoration
and "pop" out of the holes suddenly - so we're watching this to be
sure everyone else learns to watch out for him as fast as he figures
out better ways to stalk... If I ever see an injury, he'll go back
into isolation.

> Keep us posted.

As of this morning, everyone was present and accounted for, no
injuries, though Dart was looking very shark-like as he patrolled the
waters. :-)

Do you think more fish would increase or decrease his aggression?

My plan is:

Add 5 cory cats (with some bio-spira) once the new filter has some
bacteria going (basically, as soon as we get time to go to the fish
store again). These guys will help get food that finds its way to the
bottom.

After they're adjusted, add 1 rasbora (giving a total of 6 each).

Then later, maybe, depending on the nitrate levels these fish create,
3 more otos (for a total of 5).

And that's it - I want a light load and I'm hoping the above will be a
light load for a 50g (which I'm now realizing is a lie on the part of
the sticker on the tank - this thing probably only holds about 40g
:-/ (Oh well, my fault for not considering this *before* I filled it
with fish <g>)).

Liz

[Koi-lo]

"Liz McGuire" > wrote in message
...
> Do you think more fish would increase or decrease his aggression?

That would depend on his personality. People here mention keeping them in
community tanks without a problem. Every time I tried to ad a male betta I
had trouble - no matter how few or how many other fish were in the tank.

> My plan is:
>
> Add 5 cory cats (with some bio-spira) once the new filter has some
> bacteria going (basically, as soon as we get time to go to the fish
> store again). These guys will help get food that finds its way to the
> bottom.

My bettas would rip their barbels off and harass them to near death.
:-( I hope you have better luck than I did with bettas in community tanks.

> After they're adjusted, add 1 rasbora (giving a total of 6 each).
>
> Then later, maybe, depending on the nitrate levels these fish create,
> 3 more otos (for a total of 5).

Otos never survived long for me once they ate all the algae. They refused
all other food and starved to death.

> And that's it - I want a light load and I'm hoping the above will be a
> light load for a 50g (which I'm now realizing is a lie on the part of
> the sticker on the tank - this thing probably only holds about 40g
> :-/ (Oh well, my fault for not considering this *before* I filled it
> with fish <g>)).

The lighter the load the better, but you know how that goes....... :-)
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Troll Information:
http://tinyurl.com/9zbh
Reading Headers:
http://tinyurl.com/amm9s
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Liz McGuire]

Koi-lo wrote:
>
> Otos never survived long for me once they ate all the algae. They refused
> all other food and starved to death.

Mine are madly in love with zucchini. They'll take it over algae when
it's in the tank. I'm hoping new ones (if I do that) from the same
store will behave the same way - I had no trouble acclimating mine
(unlike everything I've read).

> The lighter the load the better, but you know how that goes....... :-)

Yeah, well, after my initial experience (not that it was a nightmare,
just more work than I wanted), I don't think I'll have trouble keeping
it light - it's just that I want the right mix to help clean the tank
(hence the otos for algae and the cories for food that makes it to the
bottom).

(Will keep an eye on the barbels when the cories go in.)

Thanks,

Liz

[Koi-lo]

"Liz McGuire" > wrote in message
...
> Koi-lo wrote:
>>
>> Otos never survived long for me once they ate all the algae. They
>> refused
>> all other food and starved to death.
>
> Mine are madly in love with zucchini. They'll take it over algae when
> it's in the tank. I'm hoping new ones (if I do that) from the same
> store will behave the same way - I had no trouble acclimating mine
> (unlike everything I've read).

Mine would not touch zucchini or anything I tried at the time. How long do
you have them? I doubt they'll get enough protein and other nutrients from
zucchini alone over the long haul.

>> The lighter the load the better, but you know how that goes....... :-)

> Yeah, well, after my initial experience (not that it was a nightmare,
> just more work than I wanted), I don't think I'll have trouble keeping
> it light - it's just that I want the right mix to help clean the tank
> (hence the otos for algae and the cories for food that makes it to the
> bottom).

Which sounds really good to me. I'm spending more and more time on all
these tanks I have. I plan to combine the fish in the smaller tanks and put
them all in the two 55g's. Less work for me. Partial water changes are the
only part of fishkeeping I don't look forward to.

> (Will keep an eye on the barbels when the cories go in.)
>
> Thanks,

Keep us updated. :-)
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Liz McGuire]

Koi-lo wrote:
>
> Mine would not touch zucchini or anything I tried at the time. How long do
> you have them? I doubt they'll get enough protein and other nutrients from
> zucchini alone over the long haul.

I've only had them about 2 months. Don't know about the protein -
seems they are vegetarians, so I'm not sure exactly how much protein
they need... These will eat algae wafers too, which I'd bet has some
extra nutrition mixed in. I tried spinach once, but they didn't go
for it - I think I didn't cook it right (will have to do research).
I've read they also like romaine and brussel sprouts (have to research
how to cook these for otos too).

Then there's the fact that I'm pretty sure at least one of them was
snacking on rasbora caviar yesterday evening... :-) They also rasp on
places where I can't see anything and I've read that this might be
sucking up micro-organisms which might provide protein (but I think
everyone's just guessing). Here's a quote from http://otocinclus.com/
:

<<
(May 5th, 2004 update regarding Protein) Through correspondence with
Dr. Scott Schaefer I've learned that the stomachs of wild-caught
otocinclus exclusively contained algae and plant detritus. There was
no evidence of other foods found in the system. This would lead me to
believe that a protein diet is not necessary (and possibly unnatural)
for the otocinclus to spawn.
>>

....who knows. I guess time will tell. They seem very content and
healthy right now.

Thanks,

Liz

[Liz McGuire]

Day 2 brings good news:

It's more than 24hrs after the experiment began and Dart is no longer
constantly chasing the otocinclus around (he is still herding rasboras
on occasion). In fact, he just swam around the area where they and
the zucchini are and didn't bother either one. (My husband thinks
maybe he likes the smell of zucchini...)

Everyone seems to agree that Dart's primary territory is the left side
of the tank and everyone else's is the right side, but that the bounds
aren't hard-fixed and it's OK to move around freely as long as no one
gets too close to Dart.

The rasboras in particular are game to go visit Dart's Digs (I think
they like playing in the current over there), and the neons (to my
surprise) really aren't bothered by his presence when he approaches -
they'll move out of his way a little when he comes by, but they don't
move far and they don't move that quickly... He doesn't seem to mind
this, and they aren't always in a group - a good sign, I think.

At present, Dart travels everywhere, the rasboras tend to stick to the
top half of the tank (frequently all together, but not always), the
neons tend to stick to the bottom, and the otos (rarely in the same
spot at the same time) stick with the zucchini, the plants, the glass
and, well, whatever else they feel like attaching to <g>.

My husband (The Provider of Breakfast) reports that everyone else
likes Dart's food but he doesn't like theirs. :-) (though I see that
he likes patrolling the feeding rings to see if anything new has
appeared)

So far I'm considering this a success and thinking after a few weeks
we might all settle down and live happily ever after.

Liz

[NetMax]

"Liz McGuire" > wrote in message
...
> Day 2 brings good news:
>
> It's more than 24hrs after the experiment began and Dart is no longer
> constantly chasing the otocinclus around (he is still herding rasboras
> on occasion). In fact, he just swam around the area where they and
> the zucchini are and didn't bother either one. (My husband thinks
> maybe he likes the smell of zucchini...)
>
> Everyone seems to agree that Dart's primary territory is the left side
> of the tank and everyone else's is the right side, but that the bounds
> aren't hard-fixed and it's OK to move around freely as long as no one
> gets too close to Dart.
>
> The rasboras in particular are game to go visit Dart's Digs (I think
> they like playing in the current over there), and the neons (to my
> surprise) really aren't bothered by his presence when he approaches -
> they'll move out of his way a little when he comes by, but they don't
> move far and they don't move that quickly... He doesn't seem to mind
> this, and they aren't always in a group - a good sign, I think.
>
> At present, Dart travels everywhere, the rasboras tend to stick to the
> top half of the tank (frequently all together, but not always), the
> neons tend to stick to the bottom, and the otos (rarely in the same
> spot at the same time) stick with the zucchini, the plants, the glass
> and, well, whatever else they feel like attaching to <g>.
>
> My husband (The Provider of Breakfast) reports that everyone else
> likes Dart's food but he doesn't like theirs. :-) (though I see that
> he likes patrolling the feeding rings to see if anything new has
> appeared)
>
> So far I'm considering this a success and thinking after a few weeks
> we might all settle down and live happily ever after.
>
> Liz

Sounds good. Bettas act so 'regal' strutting back and forth across a
community tank, like a benevolent king surveying his lands ;~).

The reason for the food preferences is that Betta food is high protein,
meant for carnivores, and most (all?) characidae (ie: tetras, rasboras)
are quite carnivorous, feeding off mosquito larvae and any bugs they can
fit in their mouth (in nature), but their processed fish-food is for
omnivores, with lots of 'inexpensive' plant matter thrown in. Given the
choice between steak or salad, they all want steak (except your Otos ;~).
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Koi-lo]

"Liz McGuire" > wrote in message
...
> Koi-lo wrote:
>>
>> Mine would not touch zucchini or anything I tried at the time. How long
>> do
>> you have them? I doubt they'll get enough protein and other nutrients
>> from
>> zucchini alone over the long haul.
>
> I've only had them about 2 months. Don't know about the protein -
> seems they are vegetarians, so I'm not sure exactly how much protein
> they need...

I'm not sure how long mine lasted. Even vegetarians need protein and
zucchini is lacking in that nutrient. It was so sad to see them shrink away
to nothing amid the plenty the other fish were enjoying.

These will eat algae wafers too, which I'd bet has some
> extra nutrition mixed in.

This is great! :-) What brand are you using that they eat? There are
several brands. I may have had one they didn't like for some reason.

I tried spinach once, but they didn't go
> for it - I think I didn't cook it right (will have to do research).
> I've read they also like romaine and brussel sprouts (have to research
> how to cook these for otos too).
>
> Then there's the fact that I'm pretty sure at least one of them was
> snacking on rasbora caviar yesterday evening... :-) They also rasp on
> places where I can't see anything and I've read that this might be
> sucking up micro-organisms which might provide protein (but I think
> everyone's just guessing). Here's a quote from http://otocinclus.com/

Thanks, I'll check out this site.

> <<
> (May 5th, 2004 update regarding Protein) Through correspondence with
> Dr. Scott Schaefer I've learned that the stomachs of wild-caught
> otocinclus exclusively contained algae and plant detritus. There was
> no evidence of other foods found in the system. This would lead me to
> believe that a protein diet is not necessary (and possibly unnatural)
> for the otocinclus to spawn.

They're probably getting enough from the microorganisms in the algae.

> ...who knows. I guess time will tell. They seem very content and
> healthy right now.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Liz

Thanks Liz

--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Troll Information:
http://tinyurl.com/9zbh
Reading Headers:
http://tinyurl.com/amm9s
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Liz McGuire]

NetMax wrote:
>
> Sounds good. Bettas act so 'regal' strutting back and forth across a
> community tank, like a benevolent king surveying his lands ;~).

That sounds about right :-)

> The reason for the food preferences is that Betta food is high protein,
> meant for carnivores, and most (all?) characidae (ie: tetras, rasboras)
> are quite carnivorous, feeding off mosquito larvae and any bugs they can
> fit in their mouth (in nature), but their processed fish-food is for
> omnivores, with lots of 'inexpensive' plant matter thrown in. Given the
> choice between steak or salad, they all want steak (except your Otos ;~).

Makes sense - also good as I plan to make one of these:

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4436&ref=3532&subref=AF&N=2004+112973

....and start feeding frozen food now that there's enough fish in one
place to make it worth my while...

Liz

[Liz McGuire]

Koi-lo wrote:
>
> These will eat algae wafers too, which I'd bet has some
> > extra nutrition mixed in.
>
> This is great! :-) What brand are you using that they eat? There are
> several brands. I may have had one they didn't like for some reason.

Hikari Algae Wafers (is what the package says). This is their least
favorite of what I've fed them (other than the spinach they wouldn't
eat), but when there's nothing else, they'll eat it - the key seems to
be to not put it in until they've not had other food for a day or so
(otherwise they seemed to think something better would be along soon)
- otherwise it gets too soft too soon and goes bad before they eat it.

Liz

[NetMax]

"Liz McGuire" > wrote in message
...
> NetMax wrote:
>>
>> Sounds good. Bettas act so 'regal' strutting back and forth across a
>> community tank, like a benevolent king surveying his lands ;~).
>
> That sounds about right :-)
>
>> The reason for the food preferences is that Betta food is high
>> protein,
>> meant for carnivores, and most (all?) characidae (ie: tetras,
>> rasboras)
>> are quite carnivorous, feeding off mosquito larvae and any bugs they
>> can
>> fit in their mouth (in nature), but their processed fish-food is for
>> omnivores, with lots of 'inexpensive' plant matter thrown in. Given
>> the
>> choice between steak or salad, they all want steak (except your Otos
>> ;~).
>
> Makes sense - also good as I plan to make one of these:
>
> http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4436&ref=3532&subref=AF&N=2004+112973
>
> ...and start feeding frozen food now that there's enough fish in one
> place to make it worth my while...
>
> Liz


Let us know how it works. It looks like an interesting gadget.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Koi-lo]

"Liz McGuire" > wrote in message
...
> Hikari Algae Wafers (is what the package says). This is their least
> favorite of what I've fed them (other than the spinach they wouldn't
> eat), but when there's nothing else, they'll eat it - the key seems to
> be to not put it in until they've not had other food for a day or so
> (otherwise they seemed to think something better would be along soon)
> - otherwise it gets too soft too soon and goes bad before they eat it.
=============================
OK, I can get that brand here. I hope to get to the city this week and pick
up something other than those monster plecos for my 55g tanks. I don't want
them again. If I can't get one of these mini plecos then I may get a few
ottos for each tank. The problem is that the GF will go after the wafers.
:-( I doubt the ottos would be aggressive enough to compete with them. The
GF range from small to midsize. They'll also go for any zucchini I put in
the tanks.

--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Troll Information:
http://tinyurl.com/9zbh
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Liz McGuire]

It is now more than 48 hrs from the start of our experiment and things
are going better than expected.

First, and most important, we're all alive, no injuries, and Dart is
enjoying exploring the tank and is still limiting himself to the
occasional "corrective" lunge to keep the other fish in line. The
Stump & Shrooms (local fish pub <g>) and the bridge seem to be his
favorite spots for patrolling - and my husband is enjoying watching
Dart's antics. :-)

This evening we added a packet of Bio-Spira (just for good measure)
and 5 cory cats (about 1.25-1.5 inches total length, each) and it
seems they're big enough that Dart's a bit scared of them! :-) If one
moves toward him, he backs off. But it seems he's not ready to give
up the fight - he's presently over on the right side of the tank with
everyone else, circling, plotting how he can bully them... Two are
dancing around the glass and he's observing very intently, but when
they turn to face him, he backs off :-)

Dart is clearly not sure what to think about these newbies!

Fascinatingly enough, he is still entirely indifferent to the neons -
he just swam away from the cories down and over to the neons (who were
hanging around the bridge), and they didn't swim away and he didn't
try to pester them - my husband thinks maybe they're too small to be a
threat, so he doesn't bother with them...

Dart is now going back and forth between his side of the tank (taking
a little break) and back over to the cories (who are on the right,
vacuuming). He occasionally flares at them, but they don't seem to
care.

The cories may become the passive protectors of the other peaceful
fish before we're done (due to the other fish hanging out with them)!

I believe the cories are Corydoras arcuatus or "Arched Cory". They
look exactly like this:

http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/callicht/corydora/12_F.PHP

(The black stripe goes full length as in the above, rather than
breaking as it does with some other species, e.g. Corydoras
davidsandsi (Sands' Cory)

http://planetcatfish.com/catelog/callicht/corydora/291_F.PHP )

Anywho, the cories are all very active, scurrying around the tank, and
I'm very pleased with the new additions (even if Dart isn't <eg>
hopefully he doesn't take to sulking in the corner).

Does anyone know if cories like current? (One of them is just going
berserk in the current on Dart's side - don't know if he's stuck or
just nuts! <g>)

Anywho, everyone's scattered all over the tank right now - a very good
sign.

Liz

PS: My husband, watching the cory going berserk in the current says:
"He'd better find food fast or he's gonna die! How can anyone move
that much and that fast without stopping to eat every 2 minutes? It's
not fair!" <g>

[NetMax]

"Liz McGuire" > wrote in message
...
> It is now more than 48 hrs from the start of our experiment and things
> are going better than expected.
>
> First, and most important, we're all alive, no injuries, and Dart is
> enjoying exploring the tank and is still limiting himself to the
> occasional "corrective" lunge to keep the other fish in line. The
> Stump & Shrooms (local fish pub <g>) and the bridge seem to be his
> favorite spots for patrolling - and my husband is enjoying watching
> Dart's antics. :-)
>
> This evening we added a packet of Bio-Spira (just for good measure)
> and 5 cory cats (about 1.25-1.5 inches total length, each) and it
> seems they're big enough that Dart's a bit scared of them! :-) If one
> moves toward him, he backs off. But it seems he's not ready to give
> up the fight - he's presently over on the right side of the tank with
> everyone else, circling, plotting how he can bully them... Two are
> dancing around the glass and he's observing very intently, but when
> they turn to face him, he backs off :-)
>
> Dart is clearly not sure what to think about these newbies!
>
> Fascinatingly enough, he is still entirely indifferent to the neons -
> he just swam away from the cories down and over to the neons (who were
> hanging around the bridge), and they didn't swim away and he didn't
> try to pester them - my husband thinks maybe they're too small to be a
> threat, so he doesn't bother with them...
>
> Dart is now going back and forth between his side of the tank (taking
> a little break) and back over to the cories (who are on the right,
> vacuuming). He occasionally flares at them, but they don't seem to
> care.
>
> The cories may become the passive protectors of the other peaceful
> fish before we're done (due to the other fish hanging out with them)!
>
> I believe the cories are Corydoras arcuatus or "Arched Cory". They
> look exactly like this:
>
> http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/callicht/corydora/12_F.PHP
>
> (The black stripe goes full length as in the above, rather than
> breaking as it does with some other species, e.g. Corydoras
> davidsandsi (Sands' Cory)
>
> http://planetcatfish.com/catelog/callicht/corydora/291_F.PHP )
>
> Anywho, the cories are all very active, scurrying around the tank, and
> I'm very pleased with the new additions (even if Dart isn't <eg>
> hopefully he doesn't take to sulking in the corner).
>
> Does anyone know if cories like current? (One of them is just going
> berserk in the current on Dart's side - don't know if he's stuck or
> just nuts! <g>)
>
> Anywho, everyone's scattered all over the tank right now - a very good
> sign.
>
> Liz
>
> PS: My husband, watching the cory going berserk in the current says:
> "He'd better find food fast or he's gonna die! How can anyone move
> that much and that fast without stopping to eat every 2 minutes? It's
> not fair!" <g>

Sounds like everything is going swimmingly. I think corys mostly come
from shallow portions of streams & rivers, so their environment is
well-oxygenated water, moving to some degree. In an aquarium, if the O2
level is not to their liking, they grab a gulp of air and 'digest' the O2
out of it. Their accelerated level of activity for the first few days
after a move, I think is just their way of ramping up their metabolism to
more quickly acclimate to the differences in the water parameters. It's
not uncommon and not a good or bad sign, fairly typical, though if they
were less active, you might deduce the water parameters were less
different than if they were zipping up & down the glass. Then the fact
that the other corys are more laid back suggests the parameters are not
that different, or the 'need for speed' is limited to only one fish.
Altogether quite normal (imo), so I wouldn't try to deduce anything much
from it. Tell your husband, that like people, some fish are crazy.
Most people can relate to that. Then one day, he will be studying the
fish thinking the crazy one settled down to be normal, and the fish will
give him the characteristic Cory wink ;~).

Corys are generally oblivious to curious Bettas, so Dart's curiosity will
just need to be satisfied. Once he is content that he is still king of
the hill, he will go back to pacing the tank in cruise mode.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Liz McGuire]

I haven't been around much lately as there have been problems at work,
but those are hopefully resolved now, and I'm happy to report that
tonight is the first time I've seen the rasboras hitting the surface
for food. Since moving to the new tank, they've been waiting for it
to fall (presumably worried about Dart), but no more.

The cory which was having fits has calmed down (some) and they all
seem to have settled into their new home quite well and are doing a
*fabulous* job of keeping the bottom and everything else clean! (I'm
now trying to determine if they're distinct enough to name them after
various vacuums... <g>)

All is well and we seem to have settled in. Tonight we got a couple
of small half-log things (sort of a U shape) on which I plan to mount
suction cups and stick them to the back wall for additional fishy
exploring entertainment (I appear to be a sucker). I'm also going to
try to build the air-driven frozen-worms feeder thingy :-)

I'll post pics and a report when done...

Thanks for everyone's comments and advice since I started dropping by
- you've all been very helpful as I've gotten started in this hobby.

Liz

[Liz McGuire]

I haven't been around much lately as there have been problems at work,
but those are hopefully resolved now, and I'm happy to report that
tonight is the first time I've seen the rasboras hitting the surface
for food. Since moving to the new tank, they've been waiting for it
to fall (presumably worried about Dart), but no more.

The cory which was having fits has calmed down (some) and they all
seem to have settled into their new home quite well and are doing a
*fabulous* job of keeping the bottom and everything else clean! (I'm
now trying to determine if they're distinct enough to name them after
various vacuums... <g>)

All is well and we seem to have settled in. Tonight we got a couple
of small half-log things (sort of a U shape) on which I plan to mount
suction cups and stick them to the back wall for additional fishy
exploring entertainment (I appear to be a sucker). I'm also going to
try to build the air-driven frozen-worms feeder thingy :-)

I'll post pics and a report when done...

Thanks for everyone's comments and advice since I started dropping by
- you've all been very helpful as I've gotten started in this hobby.

Liz

[Altum]

Liz McGuire wrote:
> I haven't been around much lately as there have been problems at work,
> but those are hopefully resolved now, and I'm happy to report that
> tonight is the first time I've seen the rasboras hitting the surface
> for food. Since moving to the new tank, they've been waiting for it
> to fall (presumably worried about Dart), but no more.
>
> The cory which was having fits has calmed down (some) and they all
> seem to have settled into their new home quite well and are doing a
> *fabulous* job of keeping the bottom and everything else clean! (I'm
> now trying to determine if they're distinct enough to name them after
> various vacuums... <g>)

Not being able to tell fish apart has never stopped me from naming
them. ;-) Glad to hear everything is settling in.

[Liz McGuire]

So, the fishies were enjoying swimming in and around the decor so
much, that I felt compelled to give them more play areas...

The floor of the tank is already plenty crowded, but the top part of
the tank is fairly empty, so the obvious answer was something mounted
up high on the glass (I also wanted a little hidey hole up high for
Dart 0 in case he wanted one)... Too late now to silicone something
to the glass, so suction cups seemed like the next best thing.

So, I bought a pack of airline holders, silicone aquarium sealant and
some smallish hollow-half-log decorations (where the intended bottom
is flat and can be used against the glass). I made sure there were
areas on the decoration's flat side to drill holes for the suction
cups to fit. Brought all this home, ripped the cheap-o silkish plants
out of the decorations, drilled holes in the bottom of the decoration
(as many as the decoration would support) and made the holes large
enough and deep enough for the "cylinder" part of the suction cup to
fit.

Drilling will produce a lot of plastic shavings, so be prepared to
vacuum or do it where you don't mind the shavings. I'm using
plastic/resin decorations - ceramic or terra cotta probably need a
special drill bit (I tried drilling terra cotta once - very slow
going, gave up and broke it (not necessarily in that order <g>), filed
the edges where it broke and ended up with a nice cave).

Once the holes are drilled, clean the decoration to get shavings off
and dust out of the holes and allow to dry completely. Once it's dry,
fill the holes with silicone aquarium sealant - how much depends on
the size of the hole vs the size of the suction cup - it doesn't ooze
out well, so you don't want too much. Then push the suction cup into
the hole. Note that if the suction cup won't go in or stay in the
hole, you'll need to remove some silicone, It's probably a good idea
to put a little bit of silicone around the outside of the hole too...

And wait for it to dry.

That's where I'm at now - waiting for it to dry. The package says it
cures and bonds in 24 hours, allow 48 hours before filling the tank
(they're intending this to form the seams in your tank) and "optimum
strength is achieved in seven days". Since there is some risk (these
decorations are only going to be held to the glass by suction cups), I
decided I'd better wait the whole 7 days to be sure it's all gonna
hold. I'll check during the week to see how well the suction cups are
being held in the holes and if it looks good, I'll add the decorations
to the tank next Saturday.

Updates when I find out whether the suction cups are gonna stay in the
holes (that part didn't go as well as expected, and they might not
stay) and then in a week (if applicable <g>), after the decorations
are in the tank.

Pics here:

http://www.lizmcguireonline.com/fish/decor.htm

Large graphics are on this page, so be patient, please...

Liz

[NetMax]

"Liz McGuire" > wrote in message
...
> So, the fishies were enjoying swimming in and around the decor so
> much, that I felt compelled to give them more play areas...
>
> The floor of the tank is already plenty crowded, but the top part of
> the tank is fairly empty, so the obvious answer was something mounted
> up high on the glass (I also wanted a little hidey hole up high for
> Dart 0 in case he wanted one)... Too late now to silicone something
> to the glass, so suction cups seemed like the next best thing.
>
> So, I bought a pack of airline holders, silicone aquarium sealant and
> some smallish hollow-half-log decorations (where the intended bottom
> is flat and can be used against the glass). I made sure there were
> areas on the decoration's flat side to drill holes for the suction
> cups to fit. Brought all this home, ripped the cheap-o silkish plants
> out of the decorations, drilled holes in the bottom of the decoration
> (as many as the decoration would support) and made the holes large
> enough and deep enough for the "cylinder" part of the suction cup to
> fit.
>
> Drilling will produce a lot of plastic shavings, so be prepared to
> vacuum or do it where you don't mind the shavings. I'm using
> plastic/resin decorations - ceramic or terra cotta probably need a
> special drill bit (I tried drilling terra cotta once - very slow
> going, gave up and broke it (not necessarily in that order <g>), filed
> the edges where it broke and ended up with a nice cave).
>
> Once the holes are drilled, clean the decoration to get shavings off
> and dust out of the holes and allow to dry completely. Once it's dry,
> fill the holes with silicone aquarium sealant - how much depends on
> the size of the hole vs the size of the suction cup - it doesn't ooze
> out well, so you don't want too much. Then push the suction cup into
> the hole. Note that if the suction cup won't go in or stay in the
> hole, you'll need to remove some silicone, It's probably a good idea
> to put a little bit of silicone around the outside of the hole too...
>
> And wait for it to dry.
>
> That's where I'm at now - waiting for it to dry. The package says it
> cures and bonds in 24 hours, allow 48 hours before filling the tank
> (they're intending this to form the seams in your tank) and "optimum
> strength is achieved in seven days". Since there is some risk (these
> decorations are only going to be held to the glass by suction cups), I
> decided I'd better wait the whole 7 days to be sure it's all gonna
> hold. I'll check during the week to see how well the suction cups are
> being held in the holes and if it looks good, I'll add the decorations
> to the tank next Saturday.
>
> Updates when I find out whether the suction cups are gonna stay in the
> holes (that part didn't go as well as expected, and they might not
> stay) and then in a week (if applicable <g>), after the decorations
> are in the tank.
>
> Pics here:
>
> http://www.lizmcguireonline.com/fish/decor.htm
>
> Large graphics are on this page, so be patient, please...
>
> Liz


Regarding the drying time. I've found 3 days to be sufficient for small
jobs. The time is for the silicone to cure all the way through. The
surface skins in about 5 minutes, but the silicone underneath now takes
longer, so the greater the depth, the more time should be allowed. So
the 24 hour cure tripled, usually works very well for small jobs.

Coincidentally, I'm also living with the smell of silicone today.
Yesterday I went out and bought 4 tubes of aquarium silicone (Canadian
Tire, $3.81 each) and my styrofoam structure got siliconed down (took
more than 3 tubes to do). It's held down & drying with a lot of books
(including an entire encyclopaedia set).

Your server times-out on my dial-up download, but I have an idea of what
you're doing. I'm not sure how it'll look, but I'm sure the fish will
enjoy it. My structure doesn't look very natural, but it's an apartment
for fish first, decoration second.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Liz]

NetMax wrote:
>
> Regarding the drying time. I've found 3 days to be sufficient for small
> jobs. The time is for the silicone to cure all the way through. The
> surface skins in about 5 minutes, but the silicone underneath now takes
> longer, so the greater the depth, the more time should be allowed. So
> the 24 hour cure tripled, usually works very well for small jobs.

I should have done encyclopedias or something - the suction cups aren't
sticking - I'm wondering if the silicone just won't stick to the rubber
of the suction cups (the tube warns that it will only adhere to some
types of plastic and rubber, not all)... I'm leaving one of them alone
to see if time will do it and at the same time try to come up with a
backup idea...

> Your server times-out on my dial-up download, but I have an idea of what
> you're doing. I'm not sure how it'll look, but I'm sure the fish will
> enjoy it. My structure doesn't look very natural, but it's an apartment
> for fish first, decoration second.

I cut the photo sizes in half and put the page here:
http://www.lizmcguireonline.com/fish/decors.htm

....just in case you wanted to try again...

Liz

[Liz]

:-) I don't suppose Hoover will get upset when I call him Kirby... <g>

Thanks,

Liz

[Gill Passman]

Liz wrote:
> :-) I don't suppose Hoover will get upset when I call him Kirby... <g>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Liz
>
But how would "Dyson" cope??? LOL

[2pods]

"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
...
> Liz wrote:
>> :-) I don't suppose Hoover will get upset when I call him Kirby... <g>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Liz
>>
> But how would "Dyson" cope??? LOL
>
I had two tench named after vacum cleaners.
Vax (yup, an orange one) died after a year, but I still have Dyson out in
the pond along with five younger tench called Henry, Kirby, Hoover, Bex
Bissel, and Pond vac :-)

I just rea;ised I know far too many cleaning appliance names for a guy !
;-)

Peter

[NetMax]

"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
...
> Liz wrote:
>> :-) I don't suppose Hoover will get upset when I call him Kirby...
>> <g>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Liz
>>
> But how would "Dyson" cope??? LOL


Eureka, the Dirt Devil, Bissell'ed the Kenmore. Get Oreck and maybe we
can Shop-Vac Miele over to the Black & Decker for Craftmen to look at,
using the Sanyo or Panasonic attachments, otherwise we'll need to take
the Euro-Pro through Singer with a Powr Flite. In Sunbeam we might find
Dewalt and that would give us the Eagle Advantage using an Electrolux :-)
--
www.NetMax.tk .. who has named just a few bottom-feeders ;~)

[NetMax]

"Liz" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> NetMax wrote:
>>
>> Regarding the drying time. I've found 3 days to be sufficient for
>> small
>> jobs. The time is for the silicone to cure all the way through. The
>> surface skins in about 5 minutes, but the silicone underneath now
>> takes
>> longer, so the greater the depth, the more time should be allowed. So
>> the 24 hour cure tripled, usually works very well for small jobs.
>
> I should have done encyclopedias or something - the suction cups aren't
> sticking - I'm wondering if the silicone just won't stick to the rubber
> of the suction cups (the tube warns that it will only adhere to some
> types of plastic and rubber, not all)... I'm leaving one of them alone
> to see if time will do it and at the same time try to come up with a
> backup idea...
>
>> Your server times-out on my dial-up download, but I have an idea of
>> what
>> you're doing. I'm not sure how it'll look, but I'm sure the fish will
>> enjoy it. My structure doesn't look very natural, but it's an
>> apartment
>> for fish first, decoration second.
>
> I cut the photo sizes in half and put the page here:
> http://www.lizmcguireonline.com/fish/decors.htm
>
> ...just in case you wanted to try again...
>
> Liz


Much better, thanks. Silicone won't stick to most types of rubber
(including itself). If the silicone proves completely worthless in your
application, I would remove it and get tubes of 2-part epoxy. Use that
to fill the holes with a stainless steel wood screw in each one
(screw-head inside), so that you can twist the suction cups to the
exposed screw-thread.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Liz]

Thanks, everyone for all the name suggestions! <g> (I had Hoover,
Kirby and Dyson already decided on, now I just need to finalize the
other three.)

Netmax, this is an EXCELLENT idea - I had forgotten your postings about
epoxy - I believe I have some here, so I'll have to take a look. Then
I just get some stainless steel screws and we'll be set.

Thanks!

Liz

[Mr. Gardener]

On Sun, 5 Feb 2006 21:50:08 -0000, "2pods" > wrote:

>
>"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
...
>> Liz wrote:
>>> :-) I don't suppose Hoover will get upset when I call him Kirby... <g>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Liz
>>>
>> But how would "Dyson" cope??? LOL
>>
>I had two tench named after vacum cleaners.
>Vax (yup, an orange one) died after a year, but I still have Dyson out in
>the pond along with five younger tench called Henry, Kirby, Hoover, Bex
>Bissel, and Pond vac :-)
>
>I just rea;ised I know far too many cleaning appliance names for a guy !
>;-)
>
>Peter
>

I named my two bushy nosed Ancistrus George and Laura. When my wife
was watching the two of them sucked onto the glass, she called them
Bill and Monica.

[Daniel Morrow]

Bottom posted.
Liz McGuire wrote:
> So, the fishies were enjoying swimming in and around the decor so
> much, that I felt compelled to give them more play areas...
>
> The floor of the tank is already plenty crowded, but the top part of
> the tank is fairly empty, so the obvious answer was something mounted
> up high on the glass (I also wanted a little hidey hole up high for
> Dart 0 in case he wanted one)... Too late now to silicone something
> to the glass, so suction cups seemed like the next best thing.
>
> So, I bought a pack of airline holders, silicone aquarium sealant and
> some smallish hollow-half-log decorations (where the intended bottom
> is flat and can be used against the glass). I made sure there were
> areas on the decoration's flat side to drill holes for the suction
> cups to fit. Brought all this home, ripped the cheap-o silkish plants
> out of the decorations, drilled holes in the bottom of the decoration
> (as many as the decoration would support) and made the holes large
> enough and deep enough for the "cylinder" part of the suction cup to
> fit.
>
> Drilling will produce a lot of plastic shavings, so be prepared to
> vacuum or do it where you don't mind the shavings. I'm using
> plastic/resin decorations - ceramic or terra cotta probably need a
> special drill bit (I tried drilling terra cotta once - very slow
> going, gave up and broke it (not necessarily in that order <g>), filed
> the edges where it broke and ended up with a nice cave).
>
> Once the holes are drilled, clean the decoration to get shavings off
> and dust out of the holes and allow to dry completely. Once it's dry,
> fill the holes with silicone aquarium sealant - how much depends on
> the size of the hole vs the size of the suction cup - it doesn't ooze
> out well, so you don't want too much. Then push the suction cup into
> the hole. Note that if the suction cup won't go in or stay in the
> hole, you'll need to remove some silicone, It's probably a good idea
> to put a little bit of silicone around the outside of the hole too...
>
> And wait for it to dry.
>
> That's where I'm at now - waiting for it to dry. The package says it
> cures and bonds in 24 hours, allow 48 hours before filling the tank
> (they're intending this to form the seams in your tank) and "optimum
> strength is achieved in seven days". Since there is some risk (these
> decorations are only going to be held to the glass by suction cups), I
> decided I'd better wait the whole 7 days to be sure it's all gonna
> hold. I'll check during the week to see how well the suction cups are
> being held in the holes and if it looks good, I'll add the decorations
> to the tank next Saturday.
>
> Updates when I find out whether the suction cups are gonna stay in the
> holes (that part didn't go as well as expected, and they might not
> stay) and then in a week (if applicable <g>), after the decorations
> are in the tank.
>
> Pics here:
>
> http://www.lizmcguireonline.com/fish/decor.htm
>
> Large graphics are on this page, so be patient, please...
>
> Liz

What a wonderful idea! One tip - you could use aquarium epoxy which cures
and bonds underwater and after just one hour can be drilled/sanded etc.! You
can get this particular epoxy at www.thatpetplace.com for example. Good luck
and later!

[Daniel Morrow]

Bottom posted.
NetMax wrote:

> Your server times-out on my dial-up download, but I have an idea of
> what you're doing. I'm not sure how it'll look, but I'm sure the
> fish will enjoy it. My structure doesn't look very natural, but it's
> an apartment for fish first, decoration second.

I know what you mean, I would rather have filtration equipment etc. easily
visible and the fish happy (because of good water quality for example) than
not use equipment. Besides - all of that visible equipment makes me look (to
others) and feel techy, if you know what I mean? Good luck and later!

[Liz]

Thanks, Daniel! That's exactly what I need - not that I'm in so big a
hurry that I've got to put it in the water immediately, but it'll be
safe and fast...

Thanks,

Liz

[Daniel Morrow]

Bottom posted.
Liz wrote:
> Thanks, Daniel! That's exactly what I need - not that I'm in so big a
> hurry that I've got to put it in the water immediately, but it'll be
> safe and fast...
>
> Thanks,
>
> Liz

You're welcome liz - it's amazing about how unlimited amounts of art can be
done with aquariums. Good luck and later!

[Richard Sexton]

In article om>,
Liz > wrote:
>NetMax wrote:
>>
>> Regarding the drying time. I've found 3 days to be sufficient for small
>> jobs. The time is for the silicone to cure all the way through. The
>> surface skins in about 5 minutes, but the silicone underneath now takes
>> longer, so the greater the depth, the more time should be allowed. So
>> the 24 hour cure tripled, usually works very well for small jobs.
>
>I should have done encyclopedias or something - the suction cups aren't
>sticking - I'm wondering if the silicone just won't stick to the rubber
>of the suction cups (the tube warns that it will only adhere to some
>types of plastic and rubber, not all)... I'm leaving one of them alone
>to see if time will do it and at the same time try to come up with a
>backup idea...

Suction cups haven't been rubber since about 1933. They're vinyl and
silicone will NOT adhere to them. JB Weld will (butit's damn ugly, but
safe) and so will urethane. Lepages makes urethane glue, it'll be next
to the JB Weld in the hardware store adhesives aisle.

--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[Richard Sexton]

>Much better, thanks. Silicone won't stick to most types of rubber

Tish tosh. Silicone sticks to real rubber just fine. Get some on
your tires then try to get it off :-)

--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[Richard Sexton]

>What a wonderful idea! One tip - you could use aquarium epoxy which cures


Epoxy is quite brittle and aint the best thing for gluing anything flexible. Urethane
is what you want for soft parts, JB Weld is ok for hard plastic parts. It's an epoxy;
there are many many kinds of epoxty.

--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[NetMax]

"Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
...
> >Much better, thanks. Silicone won't stick to most types of rubber
>
> Tish tosh. Silicone sticks to real rubber just fine. Get some on
> your tires then try to get it off :-)
>
> --
> Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
> Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org


lol, then I stand corrected. Sometimes the best way to prove something
is to try to not let it happen ;~).

JB Weld in an aquarium? You mean it's not just for plugging holes in my
20 year old motorcycle's muffler?
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Liz McGuire]

Thanks for the ideas, Richard. I'll write down all the suggested
products and take the list to the hardware store when I go to get the
screws and pick the one that seems best.

Can you confirm you've used these in aquariums with no negative
effects?

Thanks,

Liz


Richard Sexton wrote:
>
> Suction cups haven't been rubber since about 1933. They're vinyl and
> silicone will NOT adhere to them. JB Weld will (butit's damn ugly, but
> safe) and so will urethane. Lepages makes urethane glue, it'll be next
> to the JB Weld in the hardware store adhesives aisle.
>

[Richard Sexton]

>JB Weld in an aquarium? You mean it's not just for plugging holes in my
>20 year old motorcycle's muffler?

Good God no, it's good for everything. (turns around and looks at tank) see
that tank there? It has a Tetra sponge filtere that's moved with me from
Burlington to Los Angeles to Toronto to Banockburn. It's 30 years old
this year (and I didn't buy it new). It keeps trying to break but
JB Weld is holding it together.

JB Weld, vice grips and duct tape can fix ANYTHING.

--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[Richard Sexton]

In article >,
Liz McGuire > wrote:
>Thanks for the ideas, Richard. I'll write down all the suggested
>products and take the list to the hardware store when I go to get the
>screws and pick the one that seems best.
>
>Can you confirm you've used these in aquariums with no negative
>effects?

Absolutey. If I was guessing I'd say so :-)

JB Weld is damn ugly gray. Urethane is baby**** yellow, just as ugly. Works though.



--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[Liz McGuire]

JB Weld is now drying in the holes with stainless steel screws to keep
it company... Tomorrow after work I'll put the decorations in the
tank and we'll see if they stick... :-)

Pics when done.

Thanks,

Liz


Richard Sexton wrote:
>
> >Can you confirm you've used these in aquariums with no negative
> >effects?
>
> Absolutey. If I was guessing I'd say so :-)
>
> JB Weld is ...

[Liz McGuire]

All done and in the aquarium.

Pics here:

http://www.lizmcguireonline.com/fish/decordone.htm

Thanks for the help - esp. NetMax's idea about the screws and
Richard's JB Weld suggestion (together, they're perfect)!

Liz

[Richard Sexton]

In article >,
Liz McGuire > wrote:
>All done and in the aquarium.
>
>Pics here:
>
>http://www.lizmcguireonline.com/fish/decordone.htm
>
>Thanks for the help - esp. NetMax's idea about the screws and
>Richard's JB Weld suggestion (together, they're perfect)!
>
>Liz

Heh. That's cute.


--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[NetMax]

"Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> Liz McGuire > wrote:
>>All done and in the aquarium.
>>
>>Pics here:
>>
>>http://www.lizmcguireonline.com/fish/decordone.htm
>>
>>Thanks for the help - esp. NetMax's idea about the screws and
>>Richard's JB Weld suggestion (together, they're perfect)!
>>
>>Liz
>
> Heh. That's cute.
>
>
> --
> Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
> Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org


It is! Even matches Dart's colour.
--
www.NetMax.tk