50g experiment, day 1

So, I was tired of taking care of two tanks (a 10g and 6g), cuz the
10g was a little over stocked, thus requiring extra care, and the 6g
(planted, w/ betta) was growing every algae known to man (cuz I don't
know how to take care of plants, I suppose, and I don't really relish
experimenting with a poor fishy in there...).

So I decided a 50g was the answer. :-)

So, we got the 50g and I got it all set up (fake plants & various
decorations + a nice piece of drift wood). I let it go for a day and
then transferred the filters and fish from the 10g (6 neon tetras, 5
harlequin rasboras and 2 otos). I let them get used to it for a
couple hours (yes, I'm impatient) and then the experiment began...

I captured Dart, the betta, from his 6g isolation tank and put him
in. The curious rasboras immediately came over to say hi and he
promptly flared at them and chased them away. For about the past 2
hours, he's been exploring: got his tail caught on the filter intake a
few times - I think he's learning; has covered most of the tank and I
think he's figuring out the currents (at least some of his surfing
seemed involuntary g). Ah! And he just discovered that there's an
inside to the big tree-stump + mushrooms decoration! I was hoping
this might become the betta cave!

And, of course, he's continuing to chase everyone (though not flaring
all the time). His favorites, at present are the otos - he seems to
think they're the slowest, maybe because they wait until he's almost
there before they swim away. It appears that the rasboras
occasionally run interference for the poor otos (can't be sure of it,
but that's what it looks like). Perhaps this is why his second
favorite targets are the rasboras - who are much too fast for him, but
he still seems to want to herd them about the tank. He doesn't seem
very interested in the neons - nor they in him. For the first little
while, the neons hung out together at the bottom and only moved to
avoid him. Now they're swimming about in the middle, tending to stay
near the rasboras, but the mutual disinterest continues.

I'm not sure how long to let this go on - I'm hoping we can all calm
down and live in peace... But I guess we'll see how things are at
dinner time.

On the up side, everyone's colors are really bright right now! :-/

Updates will be posted until things calm down.

Liz

PS: There's too much daylight right now for a good pic, but here's an
OK one:

http://www.lizmcguireonline.com/fish/50g.jpg

(You can just barely see the end of Dart's tail as he goes past the
filter intake behind and on the right of the stump/shrooms
decoration.)

"Liz McGuire" wrote in message
...
So, I was tired of taking care of two tanks (a 10g and 6g), cuz the
10g was a little over stocked, thus requiring extra care, and the 6g
(planted, w/ betta) was growing every algae known to man (cuz I don't
know how to take care of plants, I suppose, and I don't really relish
experimenting with a poor fishy in there...).

So I decided a 50g was the answer. :-)

So, we got the 50g and I got it all set up (fake plants & various
decorations + a nice piece of drift wood). I let it go for a day and
then transferred the filters and fish from the 10g (6 neon tetras, 5
harlequin rasboras and 2 otos). I let them get used to it for a
couple hours (yes, I'm impatient) and then the experiment began...

I captured Dart, the betta, from his 6g isolation tank and put him
in. The curious rasboras immediately came over to say hi and he
promptly flared at them and chased them away. For about the past 2
hours, he's been exploring: got his tail caught on the filter intake a
few times - I think he's learning; has covered most of the tank and I
think he's figuring out the currents (at least some of his surfing
seemed involuntary g). Ah! And he just discovered that there's an
inside to the big tree-stump + mushrooms decoration! I was hoping
this might become the betta cave!

And, of course, he's continuing to chase everyone (though not flaring
all the time). His favorites, at present are the otos - he seems to
think they're the slowest, maybe because they wait until he's almost
there before they swim away. It appears that the rasboras
occasionally run interference for the poor otos (can't be sure of it,
but that's what it looks like). Perhaps this is why his second
favorite targets are the rasboras - who are much too fast for him, but
he still seems to want to herd them about the tank. He doesn't seem
very interested in the neons - nor they in him. For the first little
while, the neons hung out together at the bottom and only moved to
avoid him. Now they're swimming about in the middle, tending to stay
near the rasboras, but the mutual disinterest continues.

I'm not sure how long to let this go on - I'm hoping we can all calm
down and live in peace... But I guess we'll see how things are at
dinner time.

On the up side, everyone's colors are really bright right now! :-/

Updates will be posted until things calm down.

Liz

PS: There's too much daylight right now for a good pic, but here's an
OK one:

http://www.lizmcguireonline.com/fish/50g.jpg

(You can just barely see the end of Dart's tail as he goes past the
filter intake behind and on the right of the stump/shrooms
decoration.)

lol, from a 10g to a 50g, those are happy fish ). My guess is that if
Dart's not done any serious damage by now, he will settle in nicely.
--
www.NetMax.tk

Well, everyone's still alive with no physical injuries, fish are
swimming more freely now (don't seem as worried about Dart), one of
the otos is sucking on a piece of zucchini and two of the rasboras
have run off to a corner together and are spawning. :-)

I guess the experiment is going well. Hopefully it will still be in
the morning.

Liz


NetMax wrote:

lol, from a 10g to a 50g, those are happy fish ). My guess is that if
Dart's not done any serious damage by now, he will settle in nicely.

"Liz McGuire" wrote in message
...
So, I was tired of taking care of two tanks (a 10g and 6g), cuz the
10g was a little over stocked, thus requiring extra care, and the 6g
(planted, w/ betta) was growing every algae known to man (cuz I don't
know how to take care of plants, I suppose, and I don't really relish
experimenting with a poor fishy in there...).

So I decided a 50g was the answer. :-)

So, we got the 50g and I got it all set up (fake plants & various
decorations + a nice piece of drift wood). I let it go for a day and
then transferred the filters and fish from the 10g (6 neon tetras, 5
harlequin rasboras and 2 otos). I let them get used to it for a
couple hours (yes, I'm impatient) and then the experiment began...

I captured Dart, the betta, from his 6g isolation tank and put him
in. The curious rasboras immediately came over to say hi and he
promptly flared at them and chased them away. For about the past 2
hours, he's been exploring: got his tail caught on the filter intake a
few times - I think he's learning; has covered most of the tank and I
think he's figuring out the currents (at least some of his surfing
seemed involuntary g). Ah! And he just discovered that there's an
inside to the big tree-stump + mushrooms decoration! I was hoping
this might become the betta cave!

And, of course, he's continuing to chase everyone (though not flaring
all the time). His favorites, at present are the otos - he seems to
think they're the slowest, maybe because they wait until he's almost
there before they swim away. It appears that the rasboras
occasionally run interference for the poor otos (can't be sure of it,
but that's what it looks like). Perhaps this is why his second
favorite targets are the rasboras - who are much too fast for him, but
he still seems to want to herd them about the tank. He doesn't seem
very interested in the neons - nor they in him. For the first little
while, the neons hung out together at the bottom and only moved to
avoid him. Now they're swimming about in the middle, tending to stay
near the rasboras, but the mutual disinterest continues.

I'm not sure how long to let this go on - I'm hoping we can all calm
down and live in peace... But I guess we'll see how things are at
dinner time.

On the up side, everyone's colors are really bright right now! :-/

Updates will be posted until things calm down.

Liz

PS: There's too much daylight right now for a good pic, but here's an
OK one:

http://www.lizmcguireonline.com/fish/50g.jpg

Damn, your fish have there own cell phone.

Looks very good, your fish will enjoy the new space.


(You can just barely see the end of Dart's tail as he goes past the
filter intake behind and on the right of the stump/shrooms
decoration.)

"Liz McGuire" wrote in message
...
So, I was tired of taking care of two tanks (a 10g and 6g), cuz the
10g was a little over stocked, thus requiring extra care, and the 6g
(planted, w/ betta) was growing every algae known to man (cuz I don't
know how to take care of plants, I suppose, and I don't really relish
experimenting with a poor fishy in there...).

So I decided a 50g was the answer. :-)

So, we got the 50g and I got it all set up (fake plants & various
decorations + a nice piece of drift wood). I let it go for a day and
then transferred the filters and fish from the 10g (6 neon tetras, 5
harlequin rasboras and 2 otos). I let them get used to it for a
couple hours (yes, I'm impatient) and then the experiment began...

I captured Dart, the betta, from his 6g isolation tank and put him
in. The curious rasboras immediately came over to say hi and he
promptly flared at them and chased them away. For about the past 2
hours, he's been exploring: got his tail caught on the filter intake a
few times -

Get an aquarium sponge (those made for the Aquaclears are ideal), snip a
small hole in one end and pull it over your filter's intake strainer. Make
sure to cover the whole "strainer" part. Some of these filters for larger
tanks have a suction strong enough to actually trap and kill smaller fish.
I have them on all my filter intakes to prevent accidents and torn fins.

I think he's learning; has covered most of the tank and I
think he's figuring out the currents (at least some of his surfing
seemed involuntary g). Ah! And he just discovered that there's an
inside to the big tree-stump + mushrooms decoration! I was hoping
this might become the betta cave!

It sounds like he's really enjoying himself. :-)

Perhaps this is why his second
favorite targets are the rasboras - who are much too fast for him, but
he still seems to want to herd them about the tank.

I once had a community betta who learned to sneak up on the other fish -
then rush attack them an rip their fins. :-() All my bettas now live
alone.

I'm not sure how long to let this go on - I'm hoping we can all calm
down and live in peace... But I guess we'll see how things are at
dinner time.

Keep us posted.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Troll Information:
http://tinyurl.com/9zbh
Reading Headers:
http://tinyurl.com/amm9s
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

Koi-lo wrote:

Get an aquarium sponge (those made for the Aquaclears are ideal), snip a
small hole in one end and pull it over your filter's intake strainer. Make
sure to cover the whole "strainer" part. Some of these filters for larger
tanks have a suction strong enough to actually trap and kill smaller fish.
I have them on all my filter intakes to prevent accidents and torn fins.

So far it's only an issue with Dart and one of the filters from the
10g (a temporary situation until the bacteria spreads to the new
filter). But it's a good idea... Actually, the larger filters (only
one on for now, until it's got bacteria, then the 2 filters from the
10g go off and the second large filter goes on) have mid-tube as well
as end-of-tube intakes, I think the sponges would be esp. good for the
mid-tube intakes - I'll do what you suggest before I open these back
up (they're adjustable and closed now) as these will generate more
suction than any other intake. And I've already got a sponge for the
bottom of one of the large filters (the substrate is sand and they say
the sponge will help keep sand out of the filter and extend the life
of moving parts). So, I guess it's just a question of whether I put a
sponge on the temp filter - I'll see what I've got around at home -
easier than dealing with torn fins...

It sounds like he's really enjoying himself. :-)

My husband thinks the surfing is intentional, I'm not sure all of it
is, but there are definitely times when I think he decides to "coast"
to his intended destination. :-) I was very surprised that he wasn't
bothered more by the current (given the volume of "bettas can't handle
current" statements out there), but it doesn't seem to bother him
hardly at all (guess the filter in the 6g helped get him used to a
current, so he's now prepared for a slightly stronger current).

I once had a community betta who learned to sneak up on the other fish -
then rush attack them an rip their fins. :-() All my bettas now live
alone.

Yes, he's already discovered that he can hide in the stump decoration
and "pop" out of the holes suddenly - so we're watching this to be
sure everyone else learns to watch out for him as fast as he figures
out better ways to stalk... If I ever see an injury, he'll go back
into isolation.

Keep us posted.

As of this morning, everyone was present and accounted for, no
injuries, though Dart was looking very shark-like as he patrolled the
waters. :-)

Do you think more fish would increase or decrease his aggression?

My plan is:

Add 5 cory cats (with some bio-spira) once the new filter has some
bacteria going (basically, as soon as we get time to go to the fish
store again). These guys will help get food that finds its way to the
bottom.

After they're adjusted, add 1 rasbora (giving a total of 6 each).

Then later, maybe, depending on the nitrate levels these fish create,
3 more otos (for a total of 5).

And that's it - I want a light load and I'm hoping the above will be a
light load for a 50g (which I'm now realizing is a lie on the part of
the sticker on the tank - this thing probably only holds about 40g
:-/ (Oh well, my fault for not considering this *before* I filled it
with fish g)).

Liz

"Liz McGuire" wrote in message
...
Do you think more fish would increase or decrease his aggression?

That would depend on his personality. People here mention keeping them in
community tanks without a problem. Every time I tried to ad a male betta I
had trouble - no matter how few or how many other fish were in the tank.

My plan is:

Add 5 cory cats (with some bio-spira) once the new filter has some
bacteria going (basically, as soon as we get time to go to the fish
store again). These guys will help get food that finds its way to the
bottom.

My bettas would rip their barbels off and harass them to near death.
:-( I hope you have better luck than I did with bettas in community tanks.

After they're adjusted, add 1 rasbora (giving a total of 6 each).

Then later, maybe, depending on the nitrate levels these fish create,
3 more otos (for a total of 5).

Otos never survived long for me once they ate all the algae. They refused
all other food and starved to death.

And that's it - I want a light load and I'm hoping the above will be a
light load for a 50g (which I'm now realizing is a lie on the part of
the sticker on the tank - this thing probably only holds about 40g
:-/ (Oh well, my fault for not considering this *before* I filled it
with fish g)).

The lighter the load the better, but you know how that goes....... :-)
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Troll Information:
http://tinyurl.com/9zbh
Reading Headers:
http://tinyurl.com/amm9s
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

Koi-lo wrote:

Otos never survived long for me once they ate all the algae. They refused
all other food and starved to death.

Mine are madly in love with zucchini. They'll take it over algae when
it's in the tank. I'm hoping new ones (if I do that) from the same
store will behave the same way - I had no trouble acclimating mine
(unlike everything I've read).

The lighter the load the better, but you know how that goes....... :-)

Yeah, well, after my initial experience (not that it was a nightmare,
just more work than I wanted), I don't think I'll have trouble keeping
it light - it's just that I want the right mix to help clean the tank
(hence the otos for algae and the cories for food that makes it to the
bottom).

(Will keep an eye on the barbels when the cories go in.)

Thanks,

Liz

"Liz McGuire" wrote in message
...
Koi-lo wrote:

Otos never survived long for me once they ate all the algae. They
refused
all other food and starved to death.

Mine are madly in love with zucchini. They'll take it over algae when
it's in the tank. I'm hoping new ones (if I do that) from the same
store will behave the same way - I had no trouble acclimating mine
(unlike everything I've read).

Mine would not touch zucchini or anything I tried at the time. How long do
you have them? I doubt they'll get enough protein and other nutrients from
zucchini alone over the long haul.

The lighter the load the better, but you know how that goes....... :-)

Yeah, well, after my initial experience (not that it was a nightmare,
just more work than I wanted), I don't think I'll have trouble keeping
it light - it's just that I want the right mix to help clean the tank
(hence the otos for algae and the cories for food that makes it to the
bottom).

Which sounds really good to me. I'm spending more and more time on all
these tanks I have. I plan to combine the fish in the smaller tanks and put
them all in the two 55g's. Less work for me. Partial water changes are the
only part of fishkeeping I don't look forward to.

(Will keep an eye on the barbels when the cories go in.)

Thanks,

Keep us updated. :-)
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

Koi-lo wrote:

Mine would not touch zucchini or anything I tried at the time. How long do
you have them? I doubt they'll get enough protein and other nutrients from
zucchini alone over the long haul.

I've only had them about 2 months. Don't know about the protein -
seems they are vegetarians, so I'm not sure exactly how much protein
they need... These will eat algae wafers too, which I'd bet has some
extra nutrition mixed in. I tried spinach once, but they didn't go
for it - I think I didn't cook it right (will have to do research).
I've read they also like romaine and brussel sprouts (have to research
how to cook these for otos too).

Then there's the fact that I'm pretty sure at least one of them was
snacking on rasbora caviar yesterday evening... :-) They also rasp on
places where I can't see anything and I've read that this might be
sucking up micro-organisms which might provide protein (but I think
everyone's just guessing). Here's a quote from http://otocinclus.com/
:


(May 5th, 2004 update regarding Protein) Through correspondence with
Dr. Scott Schaefer I've learned that the stomachs of wild-caught
otocinclus exclusively contained algae and plant detritus. There was
no evidence of other foods found in the system. This would lead me to
believe that a protein diet is not necessary (and possibly unnatural)
for the otocinclus to spawn.


....who knows. I guess time will tell. They seem very content and
healthy right now.

Thanks,

Liz