Neon tetras dropping like flies
 

On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 16:45:51 -0600, "Koi-Lo"
wrote:


"Mister Gardener" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 13:58:37 -0500, "NetMax"
wrote:

Submerge a milk or juice container into the tank, coral the fish into it,
lift container at 45 degree angle and move to new location.

The hole on the top of a milk bottle is awful small . . .
-- Mister Gardener
==========================
I assumed he meant to cut the narrow tops off.

We're talking about NetMax, right? The guy who yesterday was talking
about poking his eyes out when looking too closely at his Saggitaria?
I don't know that he should be playing with scissors, lest he become
N*tM*x.

(OK, that's about all the mileage I'm going to get with that line.)

-- Mister Gardener

Neon tetras dropping like flies - OT hosepipe bans
 

On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 00:05:35 +0100, Gill Passman
wrote:

Altum wrote:
Mister Gardener wrote:

On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 19:15:13 +0100, Gill Passman
wrote:

A hosepipe/sprinkler ban is the first step the water companies make
in conserving water supplies in times of shortage.


This is a common event here in the US as well. Overhead sprinklers are
so incredibly wasteful, and most people waste them on, of all things,
a green lawn. I have no interest in lawns. I grow flowers and food,
front yard and back. And I use soaker hoses under mulch to supply
water when needed. We've got a similar problem as you, though it seems
like there has been so much rain and snow, our water tables are low
and we need to conserve before it's forced on us. Which we won't.
Because we are AMERICANS! GOT THAT!!??!!. And it will. Be forced on us
by mid summer.


Gah! Lawns. Don't even get me started or I'll rant for pages...

Put a nice pond and rock garden in instead. I betcha evaporative loss
from a pond is less than from the same square footage of grass.


Yeah, but some of us need to maintain at least a small lawn for
children...most of my garden is gravel and structural planting - bamboo,
fatsia, flax etc...nice pond would be great if it wasn't for the trees
over the back that I have no control over - or the risk of drowning my
four year old....plus even if I wanted to build one this year (and I
still have urges) I'd have to fill the darn thing with buckets - also
banned from Monday is the filling of ponds and swimming poools....

Gill

Hmmm. There might be some truth to the belief that the British can be
very dry people.

-- Mister Gardener

Neon tetras dropping like flies - I might have an answer
 

Mister Gardener wrote:
On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 19:24:41 +0100, Gill Passman
wrote:


Altum wrote:

Gill Passman wrote:


I've got Protozin in my cupboard of tricks under one of the tanks...it
was what my LFS also suggested. I have no issues trying it as long as
I can be sure it won't hurt the shrimps....not come across TriCepic
cream and can't get a hit on it on google...

Agreed that there is something wrong with number five....

Gill


This sounds harsh, but euthanize him as soon as he's weak enought to
catch. You suspect NTD and it primarily spreads to fish who pick at an
infected corpse. Flavobacterium can also spread to healthy fish eating
a corpse, and velvet parasites rapidly flee corpses looking for another
host. There is never a good reason to leave a dying fish in a tank.



He is now back swimming with the others quite happily again...I wouldn't
know which one he is. The guy in the LFS suggested euthanizing the whole
batch as an option but not one that he would recommend (in his words
slightly one above letting nature take it's course) - his feeling is
that we have a responsibility to do the best to try and treat the fish -
just wish I knew what darned treatment to give them (grrr) - I do
actually agree with him. While this fish is coming out from time to time
and swimming normally with no marks I can't quite bring myself to hasten
his demise - plus I can't tell him apart from the others. If he starts
showing swimming problems he should be easy to net and deal with...

In retrospect I've never had much success with Neons but have never
observed anything quite like this. The 4 foot tank has housed a number
of Neons that have disappeared or died - it now has just two left and
I'm not planning on adding any more....none of the other fish have
suffered as far as I can tell....

I agree with you on not leaving dying fish in a tank. Equally sometimes
it is nigh on impossible to find them (or corpses) in a heavily planted
tank until it is too late and parts of them (if not all) have been
chomped....generally I net them and either put them somewhere quiet to
recover or die or in some cases euthanize them if there is absolutely no
hope...

Gill


Gill - do you realize how much time has passed in which you have done
nothing to treat the fishes? By your indecision, you have chosen to
let nature take its course, and let the fishes' own defense system do
what it can to heal.

It's time to . . . how can I put this delicately . . . something about
using the chamber pot or getting off so someone else can . . .

-- Mister Gardener

I am very aware of this...I'm keeping on the fresh water course and
salt....until I know whether it is fungal or bacteria or parasites I
could go down the line of treating the wrong thing...waiting a week once
I realise I'm wrong and still lose the fish....and if it is truly NTD
any treatment won't help anyway....I am not prepared to just throw meds
into a tank regardless.....

Right now I am up to 60 hours without losing anyone - it was 2 every 36
hours....I don't want to medicate inappropiately and lose fish because
of it....I've done that with Clowns and ich to my heartbreak....

If there was concensus on what is wrong then I would treat...but I am
getting so many mixed messages here all of which demand a different
treatment....I think it has been said on this newsgroup and elsewhere
over and over that the key with undiagonosed illness is clean
water....it is what I am doing and it appears to be working to
date....anyone give me a clear diagnosis and not disagree on it and I
will treat accordingly....I worry about Number 5 but he still seems to
be doing OK...the other 4 are great.....

So, yes, without a good consistent diagnosis it isn't so much letting
nature take it's course but it is about providing the healthiest
environment that I can to give these fish a chance....so bite me....

Gill

Neon tetras dropping like flies - I might have an answer
 

On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 00:19:30 +0100, Gill Passman
wrote:

Mister Gardener wrote:
On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 19:24:41 +0100, Gill Passman
wrote:


Altum wrote:

Gill Passman wrote:


I've got Protozin in my cupboard of tricks under one of the tanks...it
was what my LFS also suggested. I have no issues trying it as long as
I can be sure it won't hurt the shrimps....not come across TriCepic
cream and can't get a hit on it on google...

Agreed that there is something wrong with number five....

Gill


This sounds harsh, but euthanize him as soon as he's weak enought to
catch. You suspect NTD and it primarily spreads to fish who pick at an
infected corpse. Flavobacterium can also spread to healthy fish eating
a corpse, and velvet parasites rapidly flee corpses looking for another
host. There is never a good reason to leave a dying fish in a tank.



He is now back swimming with the others quite happily again...I wouldn't
know which one he is. The guy in the LFS suggested euthanizing the whole
batch as an option but not one that he would recommend (in his words
slightly one above letting nature take it's course) - his feeling is
that we have a responsibility to do the best to try and treat the fish -
just wish I knew what darned treatment to give them (grrr) - I do
actually agree with him. While this fish is coming out from time to time
and swimming normally with no marks I can't quite bring myself to hasten
his demise - plus I can't tell him apart from the others. If he starts
showing swimming problems he should be easy to net and deal with...

In retrospect I've never had much success with Neons but have never
observed anything quite like this. The 4 foot tank has housed a number
of Neons that have disappeared or died - it now has just two left and
I'm not planning on adding any more....none of the other fish have
suffered as far as I can tell....

I agree with you on not leaving dying fish in a tank. Equally sometimes
it is nigh on impossible to find them (or corpses) in a heavily planted
tank until it is too late and parts of them (if not all) have been
chomped....generally I net them and either put them somewhere quiet to
recover or die or in some cases euthanize them if there is absolutely no
hope...

Gill


Gill - do you realize how much time has passed in which you have done
nothing to treat the fishes? By your indecision, you have chosen to
let nature take its course, and let the fishes' own defense system do
what it can to heal.

It's time to . . . how can I put this delicately . . . something about
using the chamber pot or getting off so someone else can . . .

-- Mister Gardener

I am very aware of this...I'm keeping on the fresh water course and
salt....until I know whether it is fungal or bacteria or parasites I
could go down the line of treating the wrong thing...waiting a week once
I realise I'm wrong and still lose the fish....and if it is truly NTD
any treatment won't help anyway....I am not prepared to just throw meds
into a tank regardless.....

Right now I am up to 60 hours without losing anyone - it was 2 every 36
hours....I don't want to medicate inappropiately and lose fish because
of it....I've done that with Clowns and ich to my heartbreak....

If there was concensus on what is wrong then I would treat...but I am
getting so many mixed messages here all of which demand a different
treatment....I think it has been said on this newsgroup and elsewhere
over and over that the key with undiagonosed illness is clean
water....it is what I am doing and it appears to be working to
date....anyone give me a clear diagnosis and not disagree on it and I
will treat accordingly....I worry about Number 5 but he still seems to
be doing OK...the other 4 are great.....

So, yes, without a good consistent diagnosis it isn't so much letting
nature take it's course but it is about providing the healthiest
environment that I can to give these fish a chance....so bite me....

Gill


Can you imagine handling all of this conflicting advice if you were a
newbie? Whew. I don't think you'll ever get a consensus. I am very
down on medications unless I'm certain I've identified my enemy. I
think my own four children, all grown up now, have taken antibiotics
perhaps once in their entire lives. Maybe less. Fresh water and salt
makes the most sense to me - though I would probably use Melafix,
because it really appears to do no harm. And may have antiseptic
properties.

-- Mister Gardener

Neon tetras dropping like flies
 

"Mister Gardener" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 16:45:51 -0600, "Koi-Lo"
wrote:


"Mister Gardener" wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 13:58:37 -0500, "NetMax"
wrote:

Submerge a milk or juice container into the tank, coral the fish into
it,
lift container at 45 degree angle and move to new location.

The hole on the top of a milk bottle is awful small . . .
-- Mister Gardener
==========================
I assumed he meant to cut the narrow tops off.

We're talking about NetMax, right? The guy who yesterday was talking
about poking his eyes out when looking too closely at his Saggitaria?
I don't know that he should be playing with scissors, lest he become
N*tM*x.

(OK, that's about all the mileage I'm going to get with that line.)

-- Mister Gardener

Thank God for small miracles ;~).
A juice container, like when you buy frozen concentrate and mix in 3
equal portions of water. A milk container, when you buy 4 litres of milk
in bags (and the container holds a bag). At least Koi-lo knows what I'm
talking about. Mr.Gardener does to, but there is less mileage in it that
way.
--
www.NetMax.tk

Neon tetras dropping like flies
 

"NetMax" wrote in message
.. .
"Mister Gardener" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 16:45:51 -0600, "Koi-Lo"
wrote:


"Mister Gardener" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 13:58:37 -0500, "NetMax"
wrote:

Submerge a milk or juice container into the tank, coral the fish into
it,
lift container at 45 degree angle and move to new location.

The hole on the top of a milk bottle is awful small . . .
-- Mister Gardener
==========================
I assumed he meant to cut the narrow tops off.

We're talking about NetMax, right? The guy who yesterday was talking
about poking his eyes out when looking too closely at his Saggitaria?
I don't know that he should be playing with scissors, lest he become
N*tM*x.

(OK, that's about all the mileage I'm going to get with that line.)

-- Mister Gardener

Thank God for small miracles ;~).
A juice container, like when you buy frozen concentrate and mix in 3 equal
portions of water. A milk container, when you buy 4 litres of milk in
bags (and the container holds a bag). At least Koi-lo knows what I'm
talking about. Mr.Gardener does to, but there is less mileage in it that
way.
--
www.NetMax.tk
I just thought you meant a 1/2 gl milk container to cut the top off sorry

Neon tetras dropping like flies
 

"Nikki" wrote in message
...

"NetMax" wrote in message
.. .
"Mister Gardener" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 16:45:51 -0600, "Koi-Lo"

wrote:


"Mister Gardener" wrote in message
m...
On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 13:58:37 -0500, "NetMax"
wrote:
snip

I just thought you meant a 1/2 gl milk container to cut the top off
sorry


No matter, as long as you have the idea : )
--
www.NetMax.tk

Neon tetras dropping like flies
 

On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 19:13:19 -0500, "NetMax"
wrote:

"Mister Gardener" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 16:45:51 -0600, "Koi-Lo"
wrote:


"Mister Gardener" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 13:58:37 -0500, "NetMax"
wrote:

Submerge a milk or juice container into the tank, coral the fish into
it,
lift container at 45 degree angle and move to new location.

The hole on the top of a milk bottle is awful small . . .
-- Mister Gardener
==========================
I assumed he meant to cut the narrow tops off.

We're talking about NetMax, right? The guy who yesterday was talking
about poking his eyes out when looking too closely at his Saggitaria?
I don't know that he should be playing with scissors, lest he become
N*tM*x.

(OK, that's about all the mileage I'm going to get with that line.)

-- Mister Gardener

Thank God for small miracles ;~).
A juice container, like when you buy frozen concentrate and mix in 3
equal portions of water. A milk container, when you buy 4 litres of milk
in bags (and the container holds a bag). At least Koi-lo knows what I'm
talking about. Mr.Gardener does to, but there is less mileage in it that
way.

Yeah - I know that was a stretch, but at least it was somewhat on
topic. But seriously, I don't know what you mean when you describe
milk in bags inside of containers.

-- Mister Gardener

Neon tetras dropping like flies
 

"Koi-Lo" wrote in message
...

"NetMax" wrote in message
...
"Koi-Lo" wrote in message
...
In that case if any disease infects the MAIN tank then no more fish can
be added until the problem is solved and cured. This can be quite a job
with a large tank and treatment can be very expensive. It's a lot
cheaper to treat a 10g than a 55 or a 130g tank. You can also catch a
fish easily in a 10g for a scraping or individual care - not so in these
larger tanks. It can also take some time to solve the mystery making the
large take itself quarantined.
========
In North America, treating large tanks for Ich is cheap, and there are
pond meds which make other treatments economical for only a 130g tank.
The most cost prohibitive medication is antibiotics, which they don't
have available in the UK anyways. Just playing devil's advocate because
conditions can really vary by country.
=========================
This is true. More so than expense is getting rid of some kind of
contagious virus or bacterial infection in large tanks. That's my worse
nightmare (next to having the rotten luck to purchase another Typhoid Mary
asymptotic carrier of something nasty.) Ick is the least of a aquarist's
problems. I buy most of my meds for ponds and use them in the tanks.
Fortunately I seldom need antibiotics but always keep them on hand.

--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o


The really viral ones are the worst. I've had to completely sterilize a few
tanks in my time.
--
www.NetMax.tk

Neon tetras dropping like flies
 

"Mister Gardener" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 19:13:19 -0500, "NetMax"
wrote:

"Mister Gardener" wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 16:45:51 -0600, "Koi-Lo"
wrote:


"Mister Gardener" wrote in message
m...
On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 13:58:37 -0500, "NetMax"
wrote:

Submerge a milk or juice container into the tank, coral the fish into
it,
lift container at 45 degree angle and move to new location.

The hole on the top of a milk bottle is awful small . . .
-- Mister Gardener
==========================
I assumed he meant to cut the narrow tops off.

We're talking about NetMax, right? The guy who yesterday was talking
about poking his eyes out when looking too closely at his Saggitaria?
I don't know that he should be playing with scissors, lest he become
N*tM*x.

(OK, that's about all the mileage I'm going to get with that line.)

-- Mister Gardener

Thank God for small miracles ;~).
A juice container, like when you buy frozen concentrate and mix in 3
equal portions of water. A milk container, when you buy 4 litres of milk
in bags (and the container holds a bag). At least Koi-lo knows what I'm
talking about. Mr.Gardener does to, but there is less mileage in it that
way.

Yeah - I know that was a stretch, but at least it was somewhat on
topic. But seriously, I don't know what you mean when you describe
milk in bags inside of containers.

-- Mister Gardener

Sorry, I forgot you live in Maine. Much shorter supply line to your
neighbourhood cow ;~).
--
www.NetMax.tk