Neon tetras dropping like flies

I bought 12 Neons for my new tank at the beginning of the month (just
over 3 weeks ago). The tank did a mini-cycle which I fixed by seeding it
(nitrites got to 0.1 so not massive). All settled down so I added 6
Panda Cories - 2 didn't make it but I got credit as the LFS believed
that there might have been a problem with the stock. I added 4 more and
these are all doing great. I also now have 3 Boesman rainbows in there
along with my two mystery fry....and 3 Amano shrimps...

The tank is approx 130 gall - 6 foot and has plants. Nitrite and Ammonia
are 0. pH is high(around 7.5) and the water here is hard.

Over the last week I have been losing the Neons - at a rate of approx
one a day. I am now down to 4 or 5 (it was 5 this morning but right now
I can only see 4). What I have noticed is that they seem to get white
blister like patches on their backs/sides. They then start swimming
erractically and then it is over within hours. No fluffy stuff or white
spots of any type. The majority I have found stuck to the inlet valve...

Just wondering if anyone has any idea what might be happening to these
tetras...all the other fish are doing just fine....the tetras themselves
were from the tank marked "larger Neon Tetras" so I'm guessing that they
are older than the more usual ones stocked but would be suprised if they
are dying of old age so soon after purchase and all within days/hours of
one another....

TIA
Gill

Gill Passman wrote:

I bought 12 Neons for my new tank at the beginning of the month (just
over 3 weeks ago). The tank did a mini-cycle which I fixed by seeding it
(nitrites got to 0.1 so not massive). All settled down so I added 6
Panda Cories - 2 didn't make it but I got credit as the LFS believed
that there might have been a problem with the stock. I added 4 more and
these are all doing great. I also now have 3 Boesman rainbows in there
along with my two mystery fry....and 3 Amano shrimps...

The tank is approx 130 gall - 6 foot and has plants. Nitrite and Ammonia
are 0. pH is high(around 7.5) and the water here is hard.

Over the last week I have been losing the Neons - at a rate of approx
one a day. I am now down to 4 or 5 (it was 5 this morning but right now
I can only see 4). What I have noticed is that they seem to get white
blister like patches on their backs/sides. They then start swimming
erractically and then it is over within hours. No fluffy stuff or white
spots of any type. The majority I have found stuck to the inlet valve...

Just wondering if anyone has any idea what might be happening to these
tetras...all the other fish are doing just fine....the tetras themselves
were from the tank marked "larger Neon Tetras" so I'm guessing that they
are older than the more usual ones stocked but would be suprised if they
are dying of old age so soon after purchase and all within days/hours of
one another....

TIA
Gill


Correction - 3 more Panda Cories - there are 7 in the tank...

"Gill Passman" wrote in message
...

Over the last week I have been losing the Neons - at a rate of approx one
a day. I am now down to 4 or 5 (it was 5 this morning but right now I can
only see 4). ..........
========================
Have you heard about "neon tetra disease?" I'm not saying that's what your
neon's have but........

See he
http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/di...eondisease.htm

They don't thrive where I live now, due to our hard alkaline water I
believe. They've never lived more than a few weeks if that, then would die
with no visable cause.

--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

Gill Passman wrote:

I bought 12 Neons for my new tank at the beginning of the month (just
over 3 weeks ago). The tank did a mini-cycle which I fixed by seeding it
(nitrites got to 0.1 so not massive). All settled down so I added 6
Panda Cories - 2 didn't make it but I got credit as the LFS believed
that there might have been a problem with the stock. I added 4 more and
these are all doing great. I also now have 3 Boesman rainbows in there
along with my two mystery fry....and 3 Amano shrimps...

The tank is approx 130 gall - 6 foot and has plants. Nitrite and Ammonia
are 0. pH is high(around 7.5) and the water here is hard.

Over the last week I have been losing the Neons - at a rate of approx
one a day. I am now down to 4 or 5 (it was 5 this morning but right now
I can only see 4). What I have noticed is that they seem to get white
blister like patches on their backs/sides. They then start swimming
erractically and then it is over within hours. No fluffy stuff or white
spots of any type. The majority I have found stuck to the inlet valve...

Just wondering if anyone has any idea what might be happening to these
tetras...all the other fish are doing just fine....the tetras themselves
were from the tank marked "larger Neon Tetras" so I'm guessing that they
are older than the more usual ones stocked but would be suprised if they
are dying of old age so soon after purchase and all within days/hours of
one another....

TIA
Gill

I agree with Koi-Lo. It sounds like Plistophora, although it's
happening kind of fast. Remove the remaining tetras to quarantine.
There is no cure for Plistophora and fish other than tetras can become
infected. The disease spreads when other fish pick at the corpse of an
infected one. If you can't quarantine the tetras, remove them and
euthanize as soon as you can tell that they're infected.

The other possibility is Flavobacterium, presenting as "saddleback
disease". If your neons were stressed or damaged in shipping, they may
be susceptible to it. The rapid deaths are typical of Flavobacterium
septicemia. You can treat Flavobacterium in quarantine with acriflavine
& salt if the disease has not gone internal. Potassium permanganate is
supposed to work too. I doubt that neons would survive a salt dip.
Internal Flavobacterium requires an antibiotic.

--
Put the word aquaria in the subject to reply.
Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com

"Altum" wrote in message
t...
Gill Passman wrote:

I bought 12 Neons for my new tank at the beginning of the month (just
over 3 weeks ago). The tank did a mini-cycle which I fixed by seeding it
(nitrites got to 0.1 so not massive). All settled down so I added 6 Panda
Cories - 2 didn't make it but I got credit as the LFS believed that there
might have been a problem with the stock. I added 4 more and these are
all doing great. I also now have 3 Boesman rainbows in there along with
my two mystery fry....and 3 Amano shrimps...

The tank is approx 130 gall - 6 foot and has plants. Nitrite and Ammonia
are 0. pH is high(around 7.5) and the water here is hard.

Over the last week I have been losing the Neons - at a rate of approx one
a day. I am now down to 4 or 5 (it was 5 this morning but right now I can
only see 4). What I have noticed is that they seem to get white blister
like patches on their backs/sides. They then start swimming erractically
and then it is over within hours. No fluffy stuff or white spots of any
type. The majority I have found stuck to the inlet valve...

Just wondering if anyone has any idea what might be happening to these
tetras...all the other fish are doing just fine....the tetras themselves
were from the tank marked "larger Neon Tetras" so I'm guessing that they
are older than the more usual ones stocked but would be suprised if they
are dying of old age so soon after purchase and all within days/hours of
one another....

TIA
Gill

I agree with Koi-Lo. It sounds like Plistophora, although it's happening
kind of fast. Remove the remaining tetras to quarantine. There is no cure
for Plistophora and fish other than tetras can become infected. The
disease spreads when other fish pick at the corpse of an infected one. If
you can't quarantine the tetras, remove them and euthanize as soon as you
can tell that they're infected.

The other possibility is Flavobacterium, presenting as "saddleback
disease". If your neons were stressed or damaged in shipping, they may be
susceptible to it. The rapid deaths are typical of Flavobacterium
septicemia. You can treat Flavobacterium in quarantine with acriflavine &
salt if the disease has not gone internal. Potassium permanganate is
supposed to work too. I doubt that neons would survive a salt dip.
Internal Flavobacterium requires an antibiotic.

--
Put the word aquaria in the subject to reply.
Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com

Saddleback, very quick. I used to treat with Kanamycine (or Neomycine) and
(climbs into asbestos overalls) MelaFix (one of the few practical uses I
found for the stuff). This was the primary reason I kept more than one Neon
tank going.
--
www.NetMax.tk

NetMax wrote:
"Altum" wrote in message
t...

Gill Passman wrote:

I bought 12 Neons for my new tank at the beginning of the month (just
over 3 weeks ago). The tank did a mini-cycle which I fixed by seeding it
(nitrites got to 0.1 so not massive). All settled down so I added 6 Panda
Cories - 2 didn't make it but I got credit as the LFS believed that there
might have been a problem with the stock. I added 4 more and these are
all doing great. I also now have 3 Boesman rainbows in there along with
my two mystery fry....and 3 Amano shrimps...

The tank is approx 130 gall - 6 foot and has plants. Nitrite and Ammonia
are 0. pH is high(around 7.5) and the water here is hard.

Over the last week I have been losing the Neons - at a rate of approx one
a day. I am now down to 4 or 5 (it was 5 this morning but right now I can
only see 4). What I have noticed is that they seem to get white blister
like patches on their backs/sides. They then start swimming erractically
and then it is over within hours. No fluffy stuff or white spots of any
type. The majority I have found stuck to the inlet valve...

Just wondering if anyone has any idea what might be happening to these
tetras...all the other fish are doing just fine....the tetras themselves
were from the tank marked "larger Neon Tetras" so I'm guessing that they
are older than the more usual ones stocked but would be suprised if they
are dying of old age so soon after purchase and all within days/hours of
one another....

TIA
Gill

I agree with Koi-Lo. It sounds like Plistophora, although it's happening
kind of fast. Remove the remaining tetras to quarantine. There is no cure
for Plistophora and fish other than tetras can become infected. The
disease spreads when other fish pick at the corpse of an infected one. If
you can't quarantine the tetras, remove them and euthanize as soon as you
can tell that they're infected.

The other possibility is Flavobacterium, presenting as "saddleback
disease". If your neons were stressed or damaged in shipping, they may be
susceptible to it. The rapid deaths are typical of Flavobacterium
septicemia. You can treat Flavobacterium in quarantine with acriflavine &
salt if the disease has not gone internal. Potassium permanganate is
supposed to work too. I doubt that neons would survive a salt dip.
Internal Flavobacterium requires an antibiotic.

--
Put the word aquaria in the subject to reply.
Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com


Saddleback, very quick. I used to treat with Kanamycine (or Neomycine) and
(climbs into asbestos overalls) MelaFix (one of the few practical uses I
found for the stuff). This was the primary reason I kept more than one Neon
tank going.

I read the link that Koi-Lo provided and it certainly does sound as if
it is Neon Tetra Disease....one thing I guess is I know have one of the
biggest QT tanks in the hobby :-( - all the fish in the tank have been
exposed and there will be no additions until the thing settles. The fish
had been in the LFS for some weeks so injury through shipping is
possibly not an option although I will take them to task about this -
going there on Thursday....

We can't get anti-biotics over here off the shelf so maybe I will give
the Melafix a try....the bottle is on my desk following recent
discussions....

On a positive note I do still have 5 Neons...the missing one turned up
for his dinner...the remaining ones are feeding well. I have managed to
get the majority of the bodies out - maybe missed 1 or 2 max....I'm a
little worried about the Pandas and the Rainbows but hopefully from my
reading they are not quite as susceptible to this as other fish can be...

Thanks guys....a little depressed about all this....

Gill

"Gill Passman" wrote in message
...
NetMax wrote:
"Altum" wrote in message
t...

Gill Passman wrote:

I bought 12 Neons for my new tank at the beginning of the month (just
over 3 weeks ago). The tank did a mini-cycle which I fixed by seeding it
(nitrites got to 0.1 so not massive). All settled down so I added 6
Panda Cories - 2 didn't make it but I got credit as the LFS believed
that there might have been a problem with the stock. I added 4 more and
these are all doing great. I also now have 3 Boesman rainbows in there
along with my two mystery fry....and 3 Amano shrimps...

The tank is approx 130 gall - 6 foot and has plants. Nitrite and Ammonia
are 0. pH is high(around 7.5) and the water here is hard.

Over the last week I have been losing the Neons - at a rate of approx
one a day. I am now down to 4 or 5 (it was 5 this morning but right now
I can only see 4). What I have noticed is that they seem to get white
blister like patches on their backs/sides. They then start swimming
erractically and then it is over within hours. No fluffy stuff or white
spots of any type. The majority I have found stuck to the inlet valve...

Just wondering if anyone has any idea what might be happening to these
tetras...all the other fish are doing just fine....the tetras themselves
were from the tank marked "larger Neon Tetras" so I'm guessing that they
are older than the more usual ones stocked but would be suprised if they
are dying of old age so soon after purchase and all within days/hours of
one another....

TIA
Gill

I agree with Koi-Lo. It sounds like Plistophora, although it's happening
kind of fast. Remove the remaining tetras to quarantine. There is no
cure for Plistophora and fish other than tetras can become infected. The
disease spreads when other fish pick at the corpse of an infected one.
If you can't quarantine the tetras, remove them and euthanize as soon as
you can tell that they're infected.

The other possibility is Flavobacterium, presenting as "saddleback
disease". If your neons were stressed or damaged in shipping, they may
be susceptible to it. The rapid deaths are typical of Flavobacterium
septicemia. You can treat Flavobacterium in quarantine with acriflavine
& salt if the disease has not gone internal. Potassium permanganate is
supposed to work too. I doubt that neons would survive a salt dip.
Internal Flavobacterium requires an antibiotic.

--
Put the word aquaria in the subject to reply.
Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com


Saddleback, very quick. I used to treat with Kanamycine (or Neomycine)
and (climbs into asbestos overalls) MelaFix (one of the few practical
uses I found for the stuff). This was the primary reason I kept more
than one Neon tank going.

I read the link that Koi-Lo provided and it certainly does sound as if it
is Neon Tetra Disease....one thing I guess is I know have one of the
biggest QT tanks in the hobby :-( - all the fish in the tank have been
exposed and there will be no additions until the thing settles. The fish
had been in the LFS for some weeks so injury through shipping is possibly
not an option although I will take them to task about this - going there
on Thursday....

We can't get anti-biotics over here off the shelf so maybe I will give the
Melafix a try....the bottle is on my desk following recent discussions....

On a positive note I do still have 5 Neons...the missing one turned up for
his dinner...the remaining ones are feeding well. I have managed to get
the majority of the bodies out - maybe missed 1 or 2 max....I'm a little
worried about the Pandas and the Rainbows but hopefully from my reading
they are not quite as susceptible to this as other fish can be...

Thanks guys....a little depressed about all this....

Gill

From my very limited experience, the symptoms appear nearly identical to
NTD, and the contagion limits itself to the Neons (but I never exposed other
tetras to it). This is consistent with NTD, however I don't think true NTD
acts that quickly, nor does it attack so many fish simultaneously, which is
why I treated it as an external bacterial infection. Also, NTD is not
treatable (in a practical sense), and I was successful treating this (after
about 3 different episodes) which also suggests it was just a quick nasty
bacteria (saddleback). In hindsight, I should have added a Platy to the
tank. They are susceptible to saddleback and not NTD. I just don't think
of adding fish to tanks under medication.

In context (since you're feeling depressed), my Neon deliveries were 500
fish at a time, into a tank which still had at least 100 Neons. I was
removing at least 50 bodies per day, so if I couldn't cure it in a week,
there wouldn't be anyone left to cure. To add further aggravation, I kept a
log of weekly fish losses, in dollars, at retail cost (not my purchase cost)
and FAX'ed it to my head office every week. It was a little depressing
totalling up the body count and the $ figure every week. Nothing like
making a business out of your interests to ruin a hobby
--
www.NetMax.tk

"Gill Passman" wrote in message
...

I read the link that Koi-Lo provided and it certainly does sound as if it
is Neon Tetra Disease....one thing I guess is I know have one of the
biggest QT tanks in the hobby :-( - all the fish in the tank have been
exposed and there will be no additions until the thing settles. The fish
had been in the LFS for some weeks so injury through shipping is possibly
not an option although I will take them to task about this - going there
on Thursday....

We can't get anti-biotics over here off the shelf so maybe I will give the
Melafix a try....the bottle is on my desk following recent discussions....

On a positive note I do still have 5 Neons...the missing one turned up for
his dinner...the remaining ones are feeding well. I have managed to get
the majority of the bodies out - maybe missed 1 or 2 max....I'm a little
worried about the Pandas and the Rainbows but hopefully from my reading
they are not quite as susceptible to this as other fish can be...

Thanks guys....a little depressed about all this....

Gill

This happened to 5 of my Neons a while ago, though a large one went two days
ago.
They seemed fine for about 6 months, then one a day until I moved the last
three to the downstairs tank.

Everything was fine until the heavier one started swimming badly.
Almost as if one side was paralyzed, though it was still eating OK.
I thought it had died as it was lying on the gravel, but of course as soon
as the net appears recovery was instantaneous :-)

Unfortunately, the following day there was no sign of him/her despite a
gravel clean.
So who eats fastest, Clown Loaches, SAE's, Weather Loaches, Angels, Corys,
or Platies ?

Peter

NetMax wrote:
"Gill Passman" wrote in message
...

NetMax wrote:

"Altum" wrote in message
.net...


Gill Passman wrote:


I bought 12 Neons for my new tank at the beginning of the month (just
over 3 weeks ago). The tank did a mini-cycle which I fixed by seeding it
(nitrites got to 0.1 so not massive). All settled down so I added 6
Panda Cories - 2 didn't make it but I got credit as the LFS believed
that there might have been a problem with the stock. I added 4 more and
these are all doing great. I also now have 3 Boesman rainbows in there
along with my two mystery fry....and 3 Amano shrimps...

The tank is approx 130 gall - 6 foot and has plants. Nitrite and Ammonia
are 0. pH is high(around 7.5) and the water here is hard.

Over the last week I have been losing the Neons - at a rate of approx
one a day. I am now down to 4 or 5 (it was 5 this morning but right now
I can only see 4). What I have noticed is that they seem to get white
blister like patches on their backs/sides. They then start swimming
erractically and then it is over within hours. No fluffy stuff or white
spots of any type. The majority I have found stuck to the inlet valve...

Just wondering if anyone has any idea what might be happening to these
tetras...all the other fish are doing just fine....the tetras themselves
were from the tank marked "larger Neon Tetras" so I'm guessing that they
are older than the more usual ones stocked but would be suprised if they
are dying of old age so soon after purchase and all within days/hours of
one another....

TIA
Gill

I agree with Koi-Lo. It sounds like Plistophora, although it's happening
kind of fast. Remove the remaining tetras to quarantine. There is no
cure for Plistophora and fish other than tetras can become infected. The
disease spreads when other fish pick at the corpse of an infected one.
If you can't quarantine the tetras, remove them and euthanize as soon as
you can tell that they're infected.

The other possibility is Flavobacterium, presenting as "saddleback
disease". If your neons were stressed or damaged in shipping, they may
be susceptible to it. The rapid deaths are typical of Flavobacterium
septicemia. You can treat Flavobacterium in quarantine with acriflavine
& salt if the disease has not gone internal. Potassium permanganate is
supposed to work too. I doubt that neons would survive a salt dip.
Internal Flavobacterium requires an antibiotic.

--
Put the word aquaria in the subject to reply.
Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com


Saddleback, very quick. I used to treat with Kanamycine (or Neomycine)
and (climbs into asbestos overalls) MelaFix (one of the few practical
uses I found for the stuff). This was the primary reason I kept more
than one Neon tank going.

I read the link that Koi-Lo provided and it certainly does sound as if it
is Neon Tetra Disease....one thing I guess is I know have one of the
biggest QT tanks in the hobby :-( - all the fish in the tank have been
exposed and there will be no additions until the thing settles. The fish
had been in the LFS for some weeks so injury through shipping is possibly
not an option although I will take them to task about this - going there
on Thursday....

We can't get anti-biotics over here off the shelf so maybe I will give the
Melafix a try....the bottle is on my desk following recent discussions....

On a positive note I do still have 5 Neons...the missing one turned up for
his dinner...the remaining ones are feeding well. I have managed to get
the majority of the bodies out - maybe missed 1 or 2 max....I'm a little
worried about the Pandas and the Rainbows but hopefully from my reading
they are not quite as susceptible to this as other fish can be...

Thanks guys....a little depressed about all this....

Gill


From my very limited experience, the symptoms appear nearly identical to
NTD, and the contagion limits itself to the Neons (but I never exposed other
tetras to it). This is consistent with NTD, however I don't think true NTD
acts that quickly, nor does it attack so many fish simultaneously, which is
why I treated it as an external bacterial infection. Also, NTD is not
treatable (in a practical sense), and I was successful treating this (after
about 3 different episodes) which also suggests it was just a quick nasty
bacteria (saddleback). In hindsight, I should have added a Platy to the
tank. They are susceptible to saddleback and not NTD. I just don't think
of adding fish to tanks under medication.

In context (since you're feeling depressed), my Neon deliveries were 500
fish at a time, into a tank which still had at least 100 Neons. I was
removing at least 50 bodies per day, so if I couldn't cure it in a week,
there wouldn't be anyone left to cure. To add further aggravation, I kept a
log of weekly fish losses, in dollars, at retail cost (not my purchase cost)
and FAX'ed it to my head office every week. It was a little depressing
totalling up the body count and the $ figure every week. Nothing like
making a business out of your interests to ruin a hobby


Well, I don't know for sure how long the fish have been at the LFS or
how long their exposure might have been...I will check with them...the
kill off is one or two a day over a week - average one a day now I've
found the 5th one again....I could add a Platy but it seems quite mean
to put a healthy platy into a diseased tank just to get a diagnosis...so
won't be doing it....

Neon's don't seem to be the hardiest of fish...although one of the
cheapest...maybe their lack of hardiness is reflected in the cost (me
being cynical here)....

If it is something else the fish are best left with the tank being used
as an over-sized QT tank for a few more weeks....I will see what the
death rate is...

Maybe they have fallen foul to whatever killed the 2 Panda
Cories....another question to be asking....the LFS believed they were
just weak stock and they do normally warn me off any suspect deliveries....

I have had mixed success with Neons, they usually account for the
highest death rate with new purchases...might be the hard water and high
pH....

My main concern is that the Panda cories and Boesman rainbows won't fall
foul to this...from my reading it is unlikely but I just wish I had
found every single body in case they have injested any parasite....

How long does everyone suggest I keep this tank QT'd after the last
death???? As most of you know this is my new pride and joy tank and I
was hoping to move some of my existing fish over into it - but no way if
it will compromise them.....Tetras of any type I guess are out for a
number of months...

Gill

Koi-Lo wrote:

"Gill Passman" wrote in message
...


Over the last week I have been losing the Neons - at a rate of approx
one a day. I am now down to 4 or 5 (it was 5 this morning but right
now I can only see 4). ..........

========================
Have you heard about "neon tetra disease?" I'm not saying that's what
your neon's have but........

See he
http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/di...eondisease.htm

They don't thrive where I live now, due to our hard alkaline water I
believe. They've never lived more than a few weeks if that, then would
die with no visable cause.


thanks for the research...it certainly seems to be a possibility...would
have responded sooner but have been tied up with work and family....

:-)

Gill