On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 01:37:50 -0400, Logic316 wrote:

wrote:

I'll add to this "debate".


Moonspeak, the exact points you mentioned (Wikipedia article on the
"mirror test" as well as animals recognizing objects that belong to
them) have already been discussed absolutely to death in this and other
parallel threads. This debate was originally about whether fish are able
to anticipate food,

It was about whether or not they are capable of anticipating at all.

but it gradually evolved into a mini flame war

The conflict between Goo and myself has been going on for about
5 years, and is not important at all to the subject being discussed. From
a surface thinking pov it's possible that the insults exchanged and lies
presented by Goo are the most important things, but in regards to the
subject being discussed they are actually meaningless even if they
seem to have significance to other people for some reason.

about
whether dogs or other animals have self-awareness.

It was started by you:
__________________________________________________ _______
From: Logic316
Message-ID:
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 01:06:41 -0400

wrote:
I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself.
A small bird will drop frozen dead from
a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself.
--
I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself.
A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough
without ever having felt sorry for itself.

This poem is fundamentally flawed. Most animals, including avian
species, lack the necessary mental capacity to have a sense of "self" in
the first place.

- Logic316
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
However,
rec.aquaria.freshwater.goldfish really isn't appropriate for extended
discussions about cat or dog psychology, so perhaps you shouldn't
crosspost to this newsgroup if you wish to reply to this discussion.

- Logic316

The only reason not to post to the goldfish group, would be
if/because no one in that group is capable of carrying on a decent
discussion about it. Notice that *you* began the discussion, but
when it started to be shown that your theory is incorrect, and also
based on a faulty testing method, you want the discussion to just
go away so you don't have to think about or learn something that
for some reason you just don't happen to like. So whether you're
willing to admit it to yourself or not Logic, this has been/is also a
test of yourself, and possibly of your goldfish group as well.